Canon or Nikon?

[maddyks]

Well, dude, maybe TS never heard of anything else than C & N, just like me when I wanted a dSLR. C & N are making a lot of noise on the market. I am no fanboy (you mean fun boy or my bad English?), I welcome K10D or whatever if it is in the same range.

I say, widen your horison, think outside the box. Read my last sentences, which you obviously didn't, instead of start "dude":ing so quick. I am not trying to sell anything but there are definitely more than two brands, which a newbie my not be aware of, or may not think about. Personally, I had Olympus since about 1980 and still, when I was getting my dSLR, I was only thinking about C & N, just like TS. You are so very wrong, I am not trying to sell anything and not a "fun boy" (I guess you misspelled), I was in the same clothes, believe it or not, I was telling a true story. No fun to be a starter in dSLR, a lot of things you have to think about because one thing is sure, regardless what you start with, it is very expensive in the end, so making a choise is about thinking a long way ahead. Not just C & N because in the end, it is not C & N that is taking the picture, but the one holding the camera. So, unless a person is loaded with money, it is iportant even to think about the next step.

BTW, talking about next step, I think I will be able to use ALL my lenses for about as long as Olympus will make dSLR cameras and I will have one. How long do you think a 400D or a D40x user can use his or her lenses? Until next model is presented in a few months time? I think actually what body one starts with is less important than what lens option he/she has. Both C & N have some nice glasses, but for how much? So, if a person is not willing to start all over again, a long term thinking is more important than C & N.

You like it or not, that is your business. I just talk about my views. If TS is disagreeing or don't want to hear about other options, I suggest TS complains. I guess he/she is mature enough to do that.

Ok ok relax both of you. Nothing wrong with him telling about the Olympus, leave it.

Anyway OlyFlyer (nice name), fanboy is correct. Its used for someone who loves his brand so much that they will fight with anyone who says anything against it.

I appreciate you trying to give the TS another option but don't you think just telling him to consider the Olympus is enough instead of telling negative stuff about the C & N and praising the qualities of the Oly. This is the reason why Rashkae said you were a fanboy and come to think of it I would be tempted too.

All the lenses of C & N can still be used but to a varying degree of control. You lose a bit here and there and seriously if you are a good photographer, I dont think you would mind that bit of a loss coz mebbe you aren't using it anyway. If I am wrong here, it is my lack of knowledge in this regard and would love to be corrected.

As for the TS, I was in the same dilemna some months ago. I looked at my bank balance (very important), picked up the cameras I was considering, looked at the possibility of me upgrading because of the BBB virus and bought a second hand D70. Once I learn how to be a photographer instead of a camera owner, I shall go ahead and get my dream camera.

Both Nikon and Canon make good cameras. As it has been said time and again, go hold the cameras in your hands, take a few pictures, look at them, then buy the one you like and can afford. Anyone you choose, trust me, you won't have made a mistake.

PS: I am harping on about N & C and not Oly because the TS asked about these two. So dont get me wrong OlyFlyer.

 

[streetlite]

Don't just think of which camera body. Think of which system you want to use.
The camera body is just the first step.

 

[Gunbucker]

Before this thread degenerates into an all out flame war, let me give a simple analogy.

Nikon:

As a Canon user, I envy Nikon's generosity of putting the best features their production budget permits into their models. No skimping. Nikon pretty much thinks like engineers, and it shows. Just look at their D200, weather sealing at an amateur price point.

Nikon makes you happy where you are. It makes you content with all the nice, generous features they throw in. Very much like the Matrix, haha!

Canon:

Canon is like when Neo stepped out into the real world. It's highly segregated. It's segregated into the Non-1 series (the Surfs), and the 1-Series (the Served) classes. When you get a 400D or even a 30D, Canon makes you realize where you are, how miserable life can be without the niceities your Nikon counterparts are enjoying. Canon makes you work harder, not in photography, but in earning more money, so that you keep upgrading bodies. 400D? No spot metering, dammit! 30D? Not fast enough, not full-frame, sh!tty low light focusing, dammit! 5D? No weather sealing, dust magnet, sh!tty AF point clutter, dammit! 1D? Ahhhh, you have arrived at the promised land, rejoice! And thank you for that 6.5k SGD (or 12k SGD if you opted for the 1Ds Mark II) too.

Canon think like businessmen/marketeers. They cripple features, dangle carrots, and make you lust for more. The good news is, the dangled carrots are really juicy, not-available-in-Nikon-land carrots. The bad news is, it's a long painful journey.

So the bottomline, pick your poison, Neo... the yellow pill (Nikon), or the red pill (Canon)

 

[user111]

buy both.

 

[CYRN]

Nikon - if you stick to the DX series.

Canon - onli if you have the $$ to go for 1.3x or FF + all those Red ringed lenses.

 

[falconite]

I got myself a 400D Kit about 4 months back and I do not have the option of D40X to be distracted with... so it was an easy part for me.

For the past 4 months, (I agree with OlyFlyer) that I come to learn of the limitation of 400D being a basic set. I took pride in it, however, because it's not overly intimidating and you have to know that such basic tool do require considerable effort to learn the functions and there is so much I have learnt from this camera.

I was under a little fever - and I cannot stop shooting away. Its almost sinful with the amount of joy I have gotten from it. My wife even protested on my numerous trips to the Reserves ..... 400D, may not be the best but it definitely is a good gear to own. I am glad that I have started it.

Advise from a friend - G-Man, I come to apprciate the honesty that if most of friends own a Canon, it might be worth the while to consider a certain brand. This was one of the criteria to my choice.

I cannot agree more about the man behind the camera (being important) - skill is of absolute importance.... However, I also would like to share that with a good lens, you can just move a step further, quicker.... I have not beared to part with a large sum of money for an L lens yet... maybe in time to come when I can justify that buy.

Buying a camera is jus that first step.... you have to weigh, family expenditure, livlihood dependance, joy of the hobby etc etc..... good luck but don't take too long a time.... hope to see your photos soon.....

 

[OlyFlyer]

Anyway OlyFlyer (nice name), fanboy is correct. Its used for someone who loves his brand so much that they will fight with anyone who says anything against it.

Thank you for both the "nice name" and the english lesson. The OlyFlyer comes from (guess what) Olympus and Flyer = Pilot, yes a real one. I had actually no idea of the word's existence (fanboy), so I did not do my homework. Wikiing (comes from "to wiki", if "to google" is right than I guess "to wiki" is also right) gave me this:

Fanboy is a term used to describe an individual (usually male, though the feminine version fangirl may be used for females) who is utterly devoted to a single fannish subject, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors that differ from their point of view. Fanboys are also typically aggressive and hateful towards the opposing brand or competition of their obsession regardless of its merits or achievements.

I marked some attributes, and just to make it clear, I am none of those. I was using facts in my arguments, facts that to the best of my knowledge are right. I would have welcomed a presentation of K10D or whatever else, just like I stated in my post. It is very easy for a newbie to only think of C & N when thinking of a dSLR, so bringing in K10D, Sony and all the other brand is I think a good idea. It is a fact that C & N are making a lot of noise (marketing wise), especially C, so it is very easy for a newbie to just pass all the other (equally good) brands.

If not TS, but somebody other may find it useful. I am not against C & N generally, just told a story about how I was in the same shoes about a year ago. I simply stated what points I consider important even in an entry level camera. Those are important for me, may not be so for others.

Am I obsessed? Yes. I may be, but definitely not to Olympus as brand. I may be loyal due to economical reasons but not obsessed with it. Actually, I am quite often critisizing Olympus cameras in my posts for all that I find wrong with it. Just read some more of my posts and you will see that. My obsession (more like devotion) is in photography among a few other things. I would gladly buy a Nikon if I could afford to get all the stuff I have for my camera today. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of money. Because, just like I said, according to me it is not about a camera body it is about a system. IMO, one has to think a long way ahead when selecting a dSLR camera body brand. I believe I have also said, get a body (any body) and just learn to use that one, don't care about what others say because everybodies opinion is biased. Am I "aggressive and hateful"? I don't think so, anyway, I did not start my post with "Dude", which I find very aggressive. I am definitely not hateful to other brands and individuals, I respect others opinion, especially if these are backed with facts and not "Dude".

PS: I am harping on about N & C and not Oly because the TS asked about these two. So dont get me wrong OlyFlyer.

No, don't worry, I don't get you wrong. If we strictly keep to the title "Canon or Nikon?" I wote for N. But again, sorry for my opinion, I still think the D40x is too basic, so in my opinion the D200 is the one to get. The only problem with it is that it is getting old. I have no idea when it is planned to be replaced, but I feel the support for the camera will be given for a long time to come so I would not worry getting it. I also think both the D40x and the 400D will be gone long before the D200.

Sorry for all this OT. I am back on track and will not continue the OT part, regardless of other, new comments if any.

 

[xunjas]

Before this thread degenerates into an all out flame war, let me give a simple analogy.

Nikon:

As a Canon user, I envy Nikon's generosity of putting the best features their production budget permits into their models. No skimping. Nikon pretty much thinks like engineers, and it shows. Just look at their D200, weather sealing at an amateur price point.

Nikon makes you happy where you are. It makes you content with all the nice, generous features they throw in. Very much like the Matrix, haha!

Canon:

Canon is like when Neo stepped out into the real world. It's highly segregated. It's segregated into the Non-1 series (the Surfs), and the 1-Series (the Served) classes. When you get a 400D or even a 30D, Canon makes you realize where you are, how miserable life can be without the niceities your Nikon counterparts are enjoying. Canon makes you work harder, not in photography, but in earning more money, so that you keep upgrading bodies. 400D? No spot metering, dammit! 30D? Not fast enough, not full-frame, sh!tty low light focusing, dammit! 5D? No weather sealing, dust magnet, sh!tty AF point clutter, dammit! 1D? Ahhhh, you have arrived at the promised land, rejoice! And thank you for that 6.5k SGD (or 12k SGD if you opted for the 1Ds Mark II) too.

Canon think like businessmen/marketeers. They cripple features, dangle carrots, and make you lust for more. The good news is, the dangled carrots are really juicy, not-available-in-Nikon-land carrots. The bad news is, it's a long painful journey.

So the bottomline, pick your poison, Neo... the yellow pill (Nikon), or the red pill (Canon)

Be a Jedi ( Canon) or a Darth Vadar ( Nikon).. hehe..

 

[NorthernLights]

I'd better not talk about Leica M8 then....:bsmilie: :nono: :bsmilie:

 

[xunjas]

Canon or Nikon again~~ hehe

 

[xyz123]

Hi TS,

I'm also deciding on my first dslr. havent got one yet. also checking out at this forum. like one of the replies above, it will be even more confusing and hard to decide after reading these comments.

i thought to myself, why not i go to flickr.com and do a tag search for d40, d40x, d80, 400d, 350d, 30d, etc. and see for myself what those camera's can produce. of course, there is a human skill factor to consider. however, if i can see good pictures in flickr taken by a certain model, then i can safely say that that model is capable of achieving that standard of shots. the rest is up to me to pick up the skill to achieve that kind of work...

agree?

why dont you do that?

 

[JillValentine]

Hi TS,

I'm also deciding on my first dslr. havent got one yet. also checking out at this forum. like one of the replies above, it will be even more confusing and hard to decide after reading these comments.

i thought to myself, why not i go to flickr.com and do a tag search for d40, d40x, d80, 400d, 350d, 30d, etc. and see for myself what those camera's can produce. of course, there is a human skill factor to consider. however, if i can see good pictures in flickr taken by a certain model, then i can safely say that that model is capable of achieving that standard of shots. the rest is up to me to pick up the skill to achieve that kind of work...

agree?

why dont you do that?

I find that lens is more important leh. I think this search is not really useful as there are too many factors such as lens, photographers, combination of lens,flash,bodies,filter,weather,lighting conditions... if tested on different conditions and different sets, it may not be very fair

 

[i-link]

hmm, i just got my nikon n im very satisfied with it, i also envious canon got a lot of variety of lens!!!! End of the day, as people say, tried it with your own hand, press a few buttons, which one suits u most, just take it. u will sure like it very much!

 

[tkbonz]

Firstly, let me state that I'm a nikonian because my father was one last time...so I got a D70s to use my dad's older lenses until i currently upgraded to a D80 with the new DX lenses. Nikon or Canon, it doesn't really matter, both are great cameras. Each having their own pros and cons...

I personally prefer the build of nikon bodies and its lower end kit lenses, like the 18-70 and 18-135. However I prefer the higher end canon bodies like 5D (my fav) and 1D, of which nikon doesn't have a model to match (a D2xs is no where near a 1D IMHO).

So depending on other factors like budget, level of committment to photography, friends and most importantly, how the cam feels in your hands, you'll have to make a decision yourself.

 

[Dithiolium]

Yep depends on your committment to photography.
Most of us are on a budget:
How many lenses you intend to own/spend on?
How often you going to shoot?
Note that most forumers here upgrade cam body while keeping their lens.

Assuming you wont be spending that much and own 1 lens only
Nikon has the 18-200 VRII, or the 18-135 kit.
Canon has is the EF 24-105L, EF 28-135 IS USM, or EF-s 17-85 IS USM
or 3rd party Sigma/Tamron 18-200 and 18-250...

Nikon turn dial below shutter button
Canon turn dial above shutter button

Test the ergonomics for yourself.

Every cam brand has tons pro and con. which I won't mention in this thread.

 

[xunjas]

make the 1st step.. walk into the shop n ask for C n N cam n try them out~~

 

[nigel84]

True true, you won't know the answer till you have the camera in your hands... As before, i got my 400D my friend oso kept telling me D40 was a gd buy. Was another war in my head between the C and N. Therefore 1 final day i walked into MS, asked for both of them. placed in front of me. And the sales person threw me another bomb alpha 100! I almost fainted on the spot. 3 great cameras infront of me... Reason of me choosing 400D across D40 and alpha 100 is because of the price and the feel... Alpha 100 too ex for me, D40 too small for my hand, and it looks very cartoonish (i dun mean to be mean >.<). And the fact that D40 could only support the newest lines of lens had a great factor of myself pushing it out of consideration. My advice to you would be go hold the camera in your hands, snap a bit, feel the grip of the cam in your hands, fit well? get use to it fast? if it fit well, and you get used to it fast, tts the one!

 

[Cikgu101]

Also stuff a memory card(yours of course) into each camera make a few shots and go home, scrutinize them as a test of image quality.

As for me, I didn't do that...a lot of my friends did on lens purchases though.
As for me, its the feel in my hands that decide my purchase...:thumbsup:
Just go for a camera testing spree hehe :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[xunjas]

True true, you won't know the answer till you have the camera in your hands... As before, i got my 400D my friend oso kept telling me D40 was a gd buy. Was another war in my head between the C and N. Therefore 1 final day i walked into MS, asked for both of them. placed in front of me. And the sales person threw me another bomb alpha 100! I almost fainted on the spot. 3 great cameras infront of me... Reason of me choosing 400D across D40 and alpha 100 is because of the price and the feel... Alpha 100 too ex for me, D40 too small for my hand, and it looks very cartoonish (i dun mean to be mean >.<). And the fact that D40 could only support the newest lines of lens had a great factor of myself pushing it out of consideration. My advice to you would be go hold the camera in your hands, snap a bit, feel the grip of the cam in your hands, fit well? get use to it fast? if it fit well, and you get used to it fast, tts the one!

sony seems like LV to me.. very expensive stuff.. hehe..

 

[casey4355]

Can i throw in a spanner ? confuse the poor guy more ?
I m using a Holga. Cool as ****. Cheap too.

Holga
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Holga is an inexpensive, medium format 120 film toy camera, originating in Hong Kong in 1982, that later came to be appreciated for its low-fidelity aesthetic.
The Holga's cheap construction and simple meniscus lens often yields pictures that display vignetting, blur, light leaks, and other distortions. Ironically, the camera's quality problems became a virtue among some photographers, with Holga photos winning awards and competitions in art and news photography.

Award Winning Photographer, David Burnett.
Mr. Burnett found his new look in the closet. He hasn't gotten rid of a camera since 1978 (when he traded in all his Nikons for Canon gear) and he has around 50 cameras and 50 lenses at his home near Washington. So by the time he hit the campaign trail last year for Time magazine, he was packing not only the Speed Graphic and the digital Canon, but also a 2 1/4-by-2 1/4-inch Mamiya or Rolleiflex and a $15 plastic camera called a Holga. In fact, a photo of Al Gore on the stump that Mr. Burnett took with a Holga won a top prize at the 2001 White House News Photographers' Association's Eyes of History contest.

Joking.