Simply, you should just be buying what you need and can afford. No right or wrong answer. It's a freedom of choice for what you want to do with your hard earned money.
Are you getting your $$$ worth yet?
- Thread starter lightning69
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there's always black sheeps in the flock? Or ppl just take it too seriously? Or nobody bother to reply questions at all? Many reasons ..... but i see there're many new ppl joining into clubsnap so there'll sure be changes in the culture and shifting away from its original purpose unless the senior members here maintain better control over it, pass on the culture of learning and sharing thru disccussions and not just "flame" for no reasons. Use less harsh wordings will be a good start. Sorry folks too lor sor rite..just my $0.02 and tots for these few months of joining this forum.pethidine said:
pethidine said:
In this case, you should post the question in the Canon forum. Personally I don't own a canon camera so there is nothing much I can advise.
Cheers
John
lightning69 dude!
By this post I can see you have not reached the point whereby the FZ20 is the limiting factor in your creative endeavour.... use it more often until it becomes an extension of you and until you know its subtleties and limitations..... then you may find that you NEED a dslr.
Of course it its a WANT, then you can buy it any time you want, with any justification.
Some possible limitations that you might find in point and shoot (which may or may not limit your creative talent depending on your usage):
1) Focal length not long enough eg, nature, birds
2) Shutter lag eg, running kids, sports
3) Low noise eg when you need high iso to freeze a shot or in low light
4) Interchangeable lens eg when you need the bokeh, large aperture, etc etc
5) When you need 5fps eg sports
Can these things be overcome in a P&S? Yes to a certain extent. You can use noise reduction software at the expense of lost in detail. You can prefocus or hyperfocus to overcome lag, etc, etc....
So you just need to ask yourself if the camera the limiting factor or the skill? Then also look at your pocket and what you can buy.... make wise decisions and take more shots. Even pros make cost-benefit decisions as they have bottom lines to consider.....
By this post I can see you have not reached the point whereby the FZ20 is the limiting factor in your creative endeavour.... use it more often until it becomes an extension of you and until you know its subtleties and limitations..... then you may find that you NEED a dslr.
Of course it its a WANT, then you can buy it any time you want, with any justification.
Some possible limitations that you might find in point and shoot (which may or may not limit your creative talent depending on your usage):
1) Focal length not long enough eg, nature, birds
2) Shutter lag eg, running kids, sports
3) Low noise eg when you need high iso to freeze a shot or in low light
4) Interchangeable lens eg when you need the bokeh, large aperture, etc etc
5) When you need 5fps eg sports
Can these things be overcome in a P&S? Yes to a certain extent. You can use noise reduction software at the expense of lost in detail. You can prefocus or hyperfocus to overcome lag, etc, etc....
So you just need to ask yourself if the camera the limiting factor or the skill? Then also look at your pocket and what you can buy.... make wise decisions and take more shots. Even pros make cost-benefit decisions as they have bottom lines to consider.....
One of my most enjoyable shots is with my canon g2... juz point n shoot.... which i am quite happy with the printout. As for the DSLR, i have yet come to fully appreciate it yet, as alot of stuff in it distract me.
just go out n shoot , enjoy the process irregardless of equipement. The self (or call it ego) is the limiting factors in us most of the time in learning.
just go out n shoot , enjoy the process irregardless of equipement. The self (or call it ego) is the limiting factors in us most of the time in learning.
pethidine said:
I tell you why...because most people here think that they know everything about digital photography and when newbie ask a question that probably been ask before many times, then the so call "Pro" would tell them to do their homework first before asking any question. Yunno, forum should be a place where issues are discuss and people help out each other. Now if you think that you can't help or are unwilling to help, don't leave a mockery reply.
lightning69 said:
Well, whilst there is some truth in what you are trying to say, if you read your first post closely, what you have done is come stomping in here and labelled every photographer here with a DSLR, a poseur with too much money to burn. Another poster mentioned that for certain types of shots you really need a DSLR with a larger sensor, for instance in portraiture in order to isolate a subject, for which a P&S with a smaller sensor just cannot make it. You cannot generate a thin DOF with a P&S even with the same relative focal length and aperture. Instead of listening to what he had to say, you slammed him and insisted that a P&S can get the same shot. Well, it can't. And it would do you well to understand why before making such grand pronouncements.
There are many types of photography for which a DSLR can do much better than a P&S. Low light and sports for example.
Whilst possession of the best and most expensive equipment: 1) does not necessarily improve a photographer's creativity and compositional skills, 2) a creative photographer's skill CAN be hampered by the lack of the proper equipment.
You are right about 1) but wrong about trying to disprove 2). Geddit?
This post is not about compact vs slr. Its not about telling someone where you should spend your money!!! Its about photography....the final product that we eventually see regardless of how much money you spend on your gear or what gear you use.
Who could deny that an slr is better in almost every aspect than a point & shoot. But I see many users spending money on expensive gear and yet i have not seen much great shots coming from them!!! Of course its non of my business how they spend their money really!!! But my point is that should this people be my concern about improving their skills rather then improving their gear. And is it my mistake to voice out my opinion in this matter?
Who could deny that an slr is better in almost every aspect than a point & shoot. But I see many users spending money on expensive gear and yet i have not seen much great shots coming from them!!! Of course its non of my business how they spend their money really!!! But my point is that should this people be my concern about improving their skills rather then improving their gear. And is it my mistake to voice out my opinion in this matter?
lightning69 said:
You have every right to voice whatever opinion you have. However, if you want to come across in such an abrasive manner, then be prepared for some robust responses. Let me quote your first post.
"The truth is that we all, the so call enthusiast, like to act like we are pro photographer, but really what kind of photo did we all produce? I mean how many great photo have you shot, the ones that is worthy to hang on the wall of your beautiful homes!!! And even if you do have a few, are they because of the cam? The answer is an absolute "NO". "
Unfortunately, in some of the cases, the answer is "YES". You have valid points but don't mix fact with fiction.
Happy shooting.
lightning69 said:
lolx, i didn wanted to come here...
but something u mentioned kinda made me want to say what i think...
1stly - may i know your source for saying pp spending expensive gear and not coming out with great shots? and what IS a defination of a GREAT shot? everyone sees a picture differently, what works for one might not neccessary work for the other. And honestly speaking, i do see some great shots coming from pp in CS, or maybe my standard is too low... haha
2ndly - how the heck (pardon the harsh word here), do you know that pp are not improving their skills? again, where did your basis of this sentence come from? did u install a hidden cam in their homes and outside and see that they buy a exp dslr and just chunck it in some dark corner at home?
you are not wrong to voice out your opinions, this is a place where pp discuss about things, but the way you are putting it across feels very offending to me... whats with the exclaimation marks(!!!)? 1 (!) not good enough for u to make your point across..?
peace~
A lot of picture posted here are no doubt good pictures in terms of color, sharpness etc. but they are all the same. For eg macro shots...are mostly of insects or flowers which has been done too much everywhere. Now that is nothing wrong with that except there isn't any one that really stands out to be exceptional or different. Now i read almost all the photography mags out as i purchase 5 to 7 mags a week and there i see many great pictures which i just don't see those quality here. So a great shot has something that is very special or different. Now i know every shots is special to someone and most likely the person who shoots it, but that is not what i meant here. What i mean is a picture that when you see it you knew that its special and unique.
Interesting.. no war peace brother..
i started with a SLR Seagull... I read books magazines.. and I tried all angles and all kind of shots...
Next i got a 'Top' from Japan.. a semi auto SLR... after two years.. I finally got a Pentex K2.. it is the top of the line and I paid $800 in 1977 for that camera.... 10 years later i own a Nikon.....SLR with a zoom len 28 to 70..
I am still using my K2 an Nikon plus a KM digital 7i got a Oly 300 and lost during a holiday...
Thinking of Canon 350... no end to it...Phtotography is not my profession but my passion.
Just buy within your mean and enjoy what you had done.. learn from talks, pictures taken by others... and I still enyjoy photography although I now take mostly family and ocassionaly invited to take wedding photos
Get the best if your rice bowl depends on it.
i am sure you will look at the cameras a photographer carried when you attend a wedding dinner. What will you think it he uses a P&S camera?
Yappy & happy
i started with a SLR Seagull... I read books magazines.. and I tried all angles and all kind of shots...
Next i got a 'Top' from Japan.. a semi auto SLR... after two years.. I finally got a Pentex K2.. it is the top of the line and I paid $800 in 1977 for that camera.... 10 years later i own a Nikon.....SLR with a zoom len 28 to 70..
I am still using my K2 an Nikon plus a KM digital 7i got a Oly 300 and lost during a holiday...
Thinking of Canon 350... no end to it...Phtotography is not my profession but my passion.
Just buy within your mean and enjoy what you had done.. learn from talks, pictures taken by others... and I still enyjoy photography although I now take mostly family and ocassionaly invited to take wedding photos
Get the best if your rice bowl depends on it.
i am sure you will look at the cameras a photographer carried when you attend a wedding dinner. What will you think it he uses a P&S camera?
Yappy & happy
Let's consider this: how long does it take for you to change the white balance setting on your camera? What about the time taken for changing ISO rating, turning on the timer, set the mirror lock-up, compensating flash output?
I wouldn't want to change my camera if I still take too long to do simple tasks like those above. Well, how long is long is really subjective matter, but everyone should know themselves whether takes 'too long' to do something.
In that case, your $$$ isn't worth yet. In other word, you haven't reach the Return Of Investment (ROI) point.
I wouldn't want to change my camera if I still take too long to do simple tasks like those above. Well, how long is long is really subjective matter, but everyone should know themselves whether takes 'too long' to do something.
In that case, your $$$ isn't worth yet. In other word, you haven't reach the Return Of Investment (ROI) point.
lightning69 said:
hmm, lolx, you intrigue me... dun feel like carrying on this debate, but u bring up a really cute point here...
you mentioned the pp here are not improving on their skills and instead just blindly buying new eqs, yes? and now u mentioned that e macro shots are of insects/flowers "nothing interesting", now, I'm not sure if you have did macro shots b4, but ask someone who does, do you even know HOW MUCH skills/knowledge it takes for someone to have to produce a macro shot with (quoted from u) with "good colours and sharpness"? u kinda giving me a feeling that you have no idea what u are talking about anymore...
i read mag too, bits and pieces here and there, no doubt that the shots inside are good, not just the colour, but also the message its trying to portray. no arguments here, but i do see some photos in mag that imho, is just a good pic, not to e extend of a great pic as you say it. so what now? these pro photog are not improving their skills too? moreover, photography is a skill, you can never finish learning it... maybe u would like to tell me someone who can announce to the world that he/she is the best/perfect photographer? =)
and you said it yourself, a picture that is unique... every picture is unique, you remind me of a thread title "originality and creativity", it comes down to the point that how an INDIVIDUAL sees the picture... gosh... the way u say it, its like a great picture is only great when u think its great... (no offence here)
and finally... lolx, ur thread title is "are you getting ur $$ worth yet" and whatever you are saying doesn seem to have any link to your title at all, do you really know what you are trying to bring across here..? =) and to answer the thread topic, my answer would be "YES", as long as my cam do what I want it to do, and it records down the moments that i think/feel is special to me, i am getting my $$ worth... and that has absoulutely nothing to do with whether i am using a p&s/slr/dslr/medium format etc, or whether do i know my basics or not. (who's to say a person who has no knowledge in basics of photography cannot take pictures..?)
:wink: i've said my piece... just my personal thoughts~
I am a P&S guys for the pass 3 yrs and quite happy as it was easy to use and cheaper compared to a film, it was used quite heavily as I travel very frequent....my requirement is simple, landscape, with or without people in it...those badly taken one I will just erase :sweat: Those were the day....I will use auto mode in all my shootings...what is apeture? What is F stop? What is DOF? Even using flash also counting by luck :dunno:
By chance, somewhere around chrismas last year....I backside itchy...knowing that I will be getting a fat bonus, so I went on to buy a DSLR...I assume with such an expensive gear...my picture will be better with such a high Mega pixel and big bright lens...but at the end I was dead wrong...my first shooting spree was a disaster...pictures looks flat and colors were ordinary....I have the under expose and blur photos problem just like the P&S cam
So what the hell....I have to realign my expectation....go down to the basic.....read, reseach, experiment and mix around with experts.....on top of that brush up my Photoshop skill....slowly...I see the improvement liao....then I am happy again :devil:
So it's not only about cheap or expensive gears that you are dealing with.....it's a lot of experience, failure and success, interest development, investing time, emotions and friendship(Those photogrphy peoples that I met are mostly nice so far)...And at least now I understand what is Bokeh and why DSLR cannot use LCD as viewfinder :lovegrin:
By chance, somewhere around chrismas last year....I backside itchy...knowing that I will be getting a fat bonus, so I went on to buy a DSLR...I assume with such an expensive gear...my picture will be better with such a high Mega pixel and big bright lens...but at the end I was dead wrong...my first shooting spree was a disaster...pictures looks flat and colors were ordinary....I have the under expose and blur photos problem just like the P&S cam
So what the hell....I have to realign my expectation....go down to the basic.....read, reseach, experiment and mix around with experts.....on top of that brush up my Photoshop skill....slowly...I see the improvement liao....then I am happy again :devil:
So it's not only about cheap or expensive gears that you are dealing with.....it's a lot of experience, failure and success, interest development, investing time, emotions and friendship(Those photogrphy peoples that I met are mostly nice so far)...And at least now I understand what is Bokeh and why DSLR cannot use LCD as viewfinder :lovegrin:
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