Any photographers experienced 'model' problems?

[night86mare]

I think your comment of 'wannabe photographer' is inappropriate and irrelevant to this discussion.
Firstly, these models advertised their services here and even stated clearly their prices for the respective themed shoots.
Whether I am a pro, amateur or in your words a wannabe, so long as I agree to engage her at her stated fee she has an obligation to deliver her services to the best of her ability. And professionalism also includes being punctual for appointments.

So even if I am just shooting for fun, but does that mean I have to tolerate such irresponsible behaviour especially when I am paying for her services?

let me present some facts to you.

1) majority of cs models are xmm looking for a quick buck, not professional models. by professional i mean, deriving majority of their income, sufficient to sustain a living.

2) this would affect the way they would treat their jobs. not to say that all of them don't take it seriously, but it's just a bonus thing, why would they be serious?

so you are not dealing with professionals, there is no incentive to be professional since this is just a stopover hi-bye sort of deal for them. even if you kbkb about them, there will always be people out there willing to pay for girls to smile at them.

now - as to why being serious or not matters. if you are serious, you would probably bother to put some amount of effort to build up a reasonably solid portfolio that showcases some amount of versatility or flair. with that, you can try convincing modelling agencies to provide you with bona fide professional models for test shoots.

with the sort of thread that constitutes 95% of all threads in P&P, just xmm acting cute, prancing around anyhow, no mood, lighting poor, just sharp photos of a girl smiling... the modelling agencies look at your shots, they have no incentive to release their models for a while to do anything photographically related with you.

if you're willing to pay, might as well bother to find a proper, professional modelling agency, hire through them. of course, if all you want is a smiling face, then you will have to live with it, that's life. you must understand what's going on. that's what i feel.

 

[night86mare]

Word of mouth can only get you so much awareness, and it will always be your words against her words.
At least here in writing the parties can contest if there is any false representation and a chance to 'air' their side of the story. Then we will be able to tell who is right and who is BS.

I even welcome those organisers to share their stories. That shows it is not their fault and they are victims too.

actually, doesn't matter if word of mouth or wherever... this business, sure a lot of people unhappy one... got a lot of things to kb about.

just like mass sales here, or B&S section, both sides got their story, both will argue that both are right......... sometimes it is not clearcut either.

 

[de_stan]

Interesting that your so called facts are mere assumptions of your own theories.
If you wish to deal with the facts than use real actual scenarios to complement your cases rather than build on hypothesis.

Again I am forced to repeat myself for your sake that my interest in raising this thread is to create awareness to the other photographers (regardless of their skill status) on the few, not all, XMM model wannabes who disregard fellow shooters even though:

1) The XMMs advertised here regularly making claims about their 'abilities' for interested photographers to engage them for a said fee

2) Verbal or written agreement has been reached to ascertain a shooting assignment

3) No prior notification or warning was given that resulted in the delay or even no show of the model engaged

In normal commercial situation, the customer has CASE or Small Claims to protect their interest. But not in CS, simply put the XMMs are all freelancers, they do not report to anyone and are not answerable to anyone for their actions. Which puts the photographers in a disadvantage, especially if they paid in advance for the booking of a studio, MUA and setting aside the time to perform the shoot. Just because they are XMMs, young and ignorant does not mean they can get away with their irresponsible actions.

More needs to be done to curb such activities with the interest of photographers who are paying customers, as well as model wannabes here who treat their assignment seriously. By highlighting those deviant models it filters who are the serious, responsible models that we can engage and identify those who can't be bothered, and they will slowly get filtered out when their 'reputation' gets around.


In fact I just discovered another 'victim' who fell prey to another irresponsible 'model'. So you tell me is my case relevant!
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=678892

 

[night86mare]

hahaha, well, if you refuse to see the truth, there is no point in discussing this.

please feel free to carry on your rants, this thread was clearly not started to facilitate discussion, just another whine-feste with the main character determined to repeat himself ad infinitum in the hopes that people will listen and pity him and some xmm will throw herself at him to redeem the rest of her kind. :bsmilie:

have a nice day.

 

[de_stan]

hahaha, well, if you refuse to see the truth, there is no point in discussing this.

please feel free to carry on your rants, this thread was clearly not started to facilitate discussion, just another whine-feste with the main character determined to repeat himself ad infinitum in the hopes that people will listen and pity him and some xmm will throw herself at him to redeem the rest of her kind. :bsmilie:

have a nice day.

And it's obvious who's side your on and any views from you is discriminatory with the intention to mislead others from the truth.

 

[night86mare]

And it's obvious who's side your on and any views from you is discriminatory with the intention to mislead others from the truth.

it is?

i dislike the whole idea of errant xmm running around acting cute and cameramen who use the pretext of photography to indulge their primal desires. majority of what goes on in P&P is a complete farce, and i have expressed this viewpoint many times.

i fear that you misconstrue my intentions. i'm on my own side, and it is my hope that more singaporean photographers start realising what photography is really about. with no demand, there will be no supply. this is a photography forum, not a modelling forums, which is why i'm focusing on the demand side.

as usual, this will fall on deaf ears, because clouded eyes will not care to see past themselves.

cheers.

 

[de_stan]

it is?

i dislike the whole idea of errant xmm running around acting cute and cameramen who use the pretext of photography to indulge their primal desires. majority of what goes on in P&P is a complete farce, and i have expressed this viewpoint many times.

i fear that you misconstrue my intentions. i'm on my own side, and it is my hope that more singaporean photographers start realising what photography is really about. with no demand, there will be no supply. this is a photography forum, not a modelling forums, which is why i'm focusing on the demand side.

as usual, this will fall on deaf ears, because clouded eyes will not care to see past themselves.

cheers.

How noble

 

[Royale With Cheese]

with the sort of thread that constitutes 95% of all threads in P&P, just xmm acting cute, prancing around anyhow, no mood, lighting poor, just sharp photos of a girl smiling...

:bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie:

So true......

thank god I'm not into this genre

 

[wildcat]

Ask them to split the cost?
I think tougher than winning TOTO!

Well, I think if it doesn't cost me anything, then I also feel no pain if I fly aeroplane someone. So what if you spent $300 booking a studio (I'm just giving ballpark figure - no idea how much studio will cost) and your time and any other equipment you may have rented for the shoot? The model may not feel empathy for you.

I agree, they may not agree to split the cost, but in case of a no-show, then if they are made to bear the cost of the expenses, I am sure there will be a lot more effort made to-show.

How it will be executed though, I have no idea. But just presenting another possible solution for discussion. It's just like those outings we have for Clubsnap (Gatherings & Outings). Most of these are free and the organizer will post a limit to number of people, people who can't turn up supposed to update the list so that those in reserve can get a slot. However if someone doesn't update the list and no-show also, nothing much can be done about it (except maybe blacklist that person from future outings).

If I had to pay $200 for a 4 hours course, versus a free outing, which do you think I would make more effort to turn up?

 

[baggiolee]

with the sort of thread that constitutes 95% of all threads in P&P, just xmm acting cute, prancing around anyhow, no mood, lighting poor, just sharp photos of a girl smiling....

wait....your avatar also is xmm acting cute wor. :sweat:

 

[zac08]

My potential model always flew away. :bsmilie:

And I scare mine off with the pre-flash. :bsmilie:

 

[night86mare]

wait....your avatar also is xmm acting cute wor. :sweat:

the girl actually means something to me, and is in my life.

how people can find the inspiration to shoot something/someone that means nothing to them (in a hobby) is beyond me. unless of course, the GWC will claim that the xmm means something to them, then the question is what? and then the answer will be an ugly one.

 

[sinned79]

Well, I think if it doesn't cost me anything, then I also feel no pain if I fly aeroplane someone. So what if you spent $300 booking a studio (I'm just giving ballpark figure - no idea how much studio will cost) and your time and any other equipment you may have rented for the shoot? The model may not feel empathy for you.

I agree, they may not agree to split the cost, but in case of a no-show, then if they are made to bear the cost of the expenses, I am sure there will be a lot more effort made to-show.

How it will be executed though, I have no idea. But just presenting another possible solution for discussion. It's just like those outings we have for Clubsnap (Gatherings & Outings). Most of these are free and the organizer will post a limit to number of people, people who can't turn up supposed to update the list so that those in reserve can get a slot. However if someone doesn't update the list and no-show also, nothing much can be done about it (except maybe blacklist that person from future outings).

If I had to pay $200 for a 4 hours course, versus a free outing, which do you think I would make more effort to turn up?

the reason i propose to split cost is also to check the sincerity of the models... cos if they refuse to pay or at least subsidise part of the cost (comeon this is a TFCD shoot... so to be fair, both parties had to chip in some cost?), that do tells a lot... so if they are not willing, then fine, there is always a pool of others out there (and probably a small percentage who is serious and dun mind sharing cost).

 

[Exposure]

pal, u spend thousands of dollars on gears and u offer free shoots for pretty women ? just becos they are pretty ?

you had been made used of and been taken advantage ! those gals treat you like a fool ! they think u are hungry to shoot them... not the other way round

guys... learn to say no ! protect your professionalism ! :think:

 

[wildcat]

I'd pay $10 to watch a Scarlett Johansson movie also :embrass:
Okay... I'm stupid that way but what has that gotta do with anything?

 

[catchlights]

pal, u spend thousands of dollars on gears and u offer free shoots for pretty women ? just becos they are pretty ?

you had been made used of and been taken advantage ! those gals treat you like a fool ! they think u are hungry to shoot them... not the other way round

guys... learn to say no ! protect your professionalism ! :think:

agree with Exposure, only when you show you mean business, others will take you more seriously.

 

[catchlights]

anyway, you should be glad that you didn't spend money on renting a studio for shooting a zombie. :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[thenomad]

pal, u spend thousands of dollars on gears and u offer free shoots for pretty women ? just becos they are pretty ?

you had been made used of and been taken advantage ! those gals treat you like a fool ! they think u are hungry to shoot them... not the other way round

guys... learn to say no ! protect your professionalism ! :think:

what to do? most gals in sg think that if they are pretty, they are like the queen and can do anything.. :bsmilie:

 

[Limsgp]

In fact I just discovered another 'victim' who fell prey to another irresponsible 'model'. So you tell me is my case relevant!
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=678892

It's good that you bought it up.

Actually, perhaps there should be a sticky thread with links to all these "incidents" as consumer reference.

Of coz, if there is consistent good conduct, the model can request to the mod to "delist" from the sticky.

Would that be a good suggestion?

 

[snowspeeder]

It's good that you bought it up.

Actually, perhaps there should be a sticky thread with links to all these "incidents" as consumer reference.

Of coz, if there is consistent good conduct, the model can request to the mod to "delist" from the sticky.

Would that be a good suggestion?

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=744680