Anyone here ever wanted to become pro PG but gave up?

[catchlights]

Actually, it is not a joke. I know of one "full time" photographer who quit his banking job and became one. Was sharing studio with me and most of the time I just see him surfing CS, workshop section and active there. His shoots comprised mainly XMM TFCD shoot or for their comp card. After a couple years, his funds runs out and started to owe me rental and disappeared from my sight (still owing me the $), last heard is that he is still a "pro" but assisting a established wedding photog and sharing a studio with his "buddy" in Ang Mo Kio area. No more active in CS as he is being watched by me for my $. hehehehehe

So there are this type of "pro" around

Sorry for the OT, I think we should stick back to the topic.

I don't think it is OT at all, is about "wanted to become pro" rite?

anyway, professional photography it is not glamorous at all, people please don't be fooled by TV shows and magazines.

 

[catchlights]

professional photographers can be working for some corporations or running their own business. I believe we are in discussion about be a professional photographers with own practice.

many people wanted to be a professional photographer, at a point of time when they begin they journey on photography as hobby, just like every little girls wanted to be a princess.....

most people tried and failed, largely because they think can shoot better than others and that is all it takes. but they didn't realize that they need to learn to run a business properly in order to sustain their dreams as professional photographer.

there are many things ones need to know and learn about to be professional photographer, and the process is endless.

If anyone keen to know more and the truth about professional photography, there are few books in National Library in this topic, read at least one book before you want to embark into professional photography.

hope this help.

 

[mattlock]

Actually I echo Kuang's view that the low cost base plus low barrier to entry will result in more photographers joining the fray - we've seen that a lot in the wedding and portrait photography area. Because newcomers would generally price more randomly, it does destabilise the market for a while.

What makes the market I operate in (wedding photography) different from bubble tea one is that there is actually a fairly distinct market segmentation. You are (or were ) unlikely to find a low-end, mid and high-end bubble tea outlet - think Pizza Hut/Pasta Fresca/Il Lido. That business model was more of a high volume/low cost type so it was difficult to differentiate between the different brands. In the end, it was a matter of competing on location, flavours and price (ok, maybe the occasional bikini models lol). If there's any parallel in the wedding photography business, I would think this may be the case if there is an extremely huge number (and big influx) of full-time photographers in the fairly crowded lower-end segment of the market.

for commercial photographers,
I don't think that the low-end photographers are that much of a threat but it would be good for a rough guideline on pricing to be talked about, so that when clients approach us they don't try to play the fear factor on us.
As my friend told me, Asians tend to find it difficult to pay service fees so we have to be able to back up why our fees are such and such.

 

[Will03]

My argument here is not to say there isn't any bad service provider out there, but what is the point to put them down? If one think carefully, what is there to gain for you or the photography community when you tell a client, such and such photographer is not good because they do this and that? What does the message that the client hear?

Many often feel threaten by low price, unprofessional service, copy cat but really, this is not something that one should be worry for as you know exactly where these people will be in a few years or few months time. Some will feel it is unprofitable anymore, some will simply feel that they are getting no where, and some feel dishearted... and there are more reason people fail in any field then just simply $ and cents...

Like ckuang has said, there will be a correction phase, but to reach that point, it will be quite a long way and we may or may not see it.

So what I mean is, we could really save our energy on commenting some other peer's work being so and so, why don't we focus on our energy in building up what we already have?

Positive attitude is very important, if one have negative attitude in them, I would wonder, how much time and energy they have left to look at things in more positive way?

Take me for example, when we first started, people call us "unprofessional" because we don't have a studio (it was a choice) and being call "stupid" to concentrate on Children photography only in such a small market... when I looked back, people who has commented that today, because they spend so much time putting their negative attitude and worry about what I am doing, they are still where they were?

Personally, if I were to hate them and spend my time on non-productive and negative thoughts, probably I won't be at where I am at the moment.

And again, I think having positive thinking is very important.

My work come not only from my advertising effort, but sometime do come from your friend, in this matter and very importantly, a peer that is in the same industry. Likewise, I do refer them jobs when i can't have it all.

Having peer as friend is very important and I can't stress how important it is.

I have mixed feeling about professional photography market here in Singapore as I do see some good photographers are very close and working on common goal but majority what I have observed the other side of it... competitive in the wrong end... which is the pricing and the "business tactic".

Truthfully, it hurts to think why people can't work together closely and learning from each other and more importantly "Protect" each other? Why don't we work together in harmony and building the community that we love?

Ask yourself, when you are angry for 1 minute in a day... how much time do you take to really recover from it? a few minutes? or a few hours? if you think again, those recovery time, are they "lost" time for you? while you can spend it on your business?

Once again, my point is, we know and understand that they are different level in any field, but there is no reason why we should put someone down? I am sorry to say to Jed that he/she is not being nice. It was more my Oz in me... not being too serious about everything... relax guys...

Have a wonderful Sunday.

Regards,

Hart

nicely written..

 

[chanjyj]

professional photographers can be working for some corporations or running their own business. I believe we are in discussion about be a professional photographers with own practice.

many people wanted to be a professional photographer, at a point of time when they begin they journey on photography as hobby, just like every little girls wanted to be a princess.....

most people tried and failed, largely because they think can shoot better than others and that is all it takes. but they didn't realize that they need to learn to run a business properly in order to sustain their dreams as professional photographer.

there are many things ones need to know and learn about to be professional photographer, and the process is endless.

If anyone keen to know more and the truth about professional photography, there are few books in National Library in this topic, read at least one book before you want to embark into professional photography.

hope this help.

Eh. I think advising them to do that not exactly wise. I have seen some books in the library that talk about going into photography. But the market happens to be the big market of USA. Never seen a book about SG market.

US market and SG market no parallels at all, seriously. At least the amateur photographers there don't claim to be a professional and flood the market (even the low end one).

Regarding XMM, if you talking about the workshops that I so often see, I don't consider it going professional? It is a different business, you aren't shooting for money. You're basically an event organiser in the photography field.

And to OT, I have never understood why is it called a workshop. Do you really learn anything? Do they teach you anything? To me it is more of "pay money to see skimpily clad girls". Go beach with camera lah!
There is only 1 organiser I know that actually does seem to bring in quality models. The rest are like :think:

 

[deepcover]

5 years ago, i entered this field as an assistant, i had big dreams,
now it seems really difficult, i feel like giving up sometimes.

 

[Ian]

And to OT, I have never understood why is it called a workshop. Do you really learn anything? Do they teach you anything? To me it is more of "pay money to see skimpily clad girls". Go beach with camera lah!

OT reply .. sorry guys but this I can't resist...

Cynic mode engaged..

Checks out the Singapore edition of GWC monthly and looks up "Workshop".. hmm it says and I misquote...

A place where the GWC "works" on his lameas$ pickup lines to the XMM in the vain hope that he might get lucky, while the XMM dreams of "shopping" with the loot she's not been paid to prance around in scanty clothes... :think:

Editors note: GWC's never get lucky with models, that's a perk of the full time professional photographer only :devil:

Cynic mode disengaged..

 

[deepcover]

i've only ever gotten lucky once...once only :/

 

[mattlock]

5 years ago, i entered this field as an assistant, i had big dreams,
now it seems really difficult, i feel like giving up sometimes.

jeff I think that there have been serious shifts in the market...we have to do what our forefathers did and go look for where the money and opportunities are if we're aiming to do high quality work methinks..

 

[deepcover]

jeff I think that there have been serious shifts in the market...we have to do what our forefathers did and go look for where the money and opportunities are if we're aiming to do high quality work methinks..

thanks for the advise jinky jing

 

[Agetan]

5 years ago, i entered this field as an assistant, i had big dreams,
now it seems really difficult, i feel like giving up sometimes.

Hi there,

I know the journey in photography is never easy...

quickly glance through your web and you have excellent work.

Perhaps it will be great to hear from you what makes you feel like giving up sometimes? what are the factor that dampen the initial "fire"?

I am sure this will benefit many as this will give another perspective from someone that is there and done that and still in the market but feel like giving up....

I will start with mine...

Initially, photography is always a dream and coming from well paid engineering job and it was difficult to let go... however, little that I know working in photography line isn't always smooth.

First thing that strike me is the comment from people you trust as they would give you a very true opinion on what they think abt you and your work. It is very personal and deep down, it was a little difficult to swallow but you know with those comment, that you will grow from it.

Second thing is looking at your peer who is busy with job after job after job, it was kinda demoralising when ourselves don't have much to work on.

Third, is the administrative chore that prevent you to do what you prefer... but you know you have to do it.

To sum up, i think it is more or less about our perception on how glamorous to work as photographer but rarely happen that way.

The hard work that needs to be put in seems to be a burden sometime but you know there isn't much you can do without it.

That pretty much sum up my first 6 years in photography and I am just starting to enjoy the little fruit of hard work that I put in last 6 years. However, the hard work don't stop if I want to go forward so I think it will be continuous process.

My advise is to have a practical expectation when you start and continuously evaluate the situation with your expectation to ensure a better understanding on your business.

It is very important not to compare your achievement with other's because everyone is different. More importantly running your own race and achieving your own goal is more meaningful.

Regards,

Hart

 

[blurry80]

In other markets many people go thru training, education, ojt. I noticed that there is no real photography school in singapore that actually impart the skill and arrange for OJT till the student becomes pro. Maybe there are such schools countries with larger market.
True there are monkeys that charge cheaply and There are also pros that charge high and deliver fantastic results or the other way around as well. In such a situation the newbie that wants to go pro will just have to keep doing trial and error to become the pro they are today and deliver value for money pics. This natural cycle wont change for years .

 

[deepcover]

TO AgeTan(Hart) :

why do i sometimes feel like quitting.

To be truthful to you, the first and foremost reason for me to PONDER about changing profession, is the highly unstable income.

I presume that i am in the intermediate stage of my career and IMHO it sucks badddd.
if i shoot i get paid( in 30-60 days mind you ) if i dont shoot i dont get paid.

its not like last time when i was an assistant, i get paid doing assisting stuff.


the second thing that affect me the most last time was my constant Comparing with my peers, i get affected when i see much younger photographer churning out amazing work, gracing covers of much coveted fashion magazines.

but after a while, i realized such comparing isnt healthy at all,
Sure it has propelled me to create a portfolio, but too much comparing will lead to feeling jaded about your art.

so i totally agree with you, that we should concentrate on OUR OWN PATH.
bettering your craft, bettering your mind, and bettering your self.

anyways, its just a passing mood, i will feel better (especially after people start paying up)


PS: any aspiring photographers, new assistants or those thinking of learning the craft thru assisting, if you got questions, doubts or worries, feel free to ask me , and i will try my best to tell u what i know and been thru

 

[Agetan]

Interesting...

Its never easy... when we are in the action, we feel alive but most days spent doing "seed planting" and that could be quite tiring and to some degree difficult to "measure" and we just don't know when this "seed" that we plant will grow...

However, at the same time, we don't plant the "seed", we won't see anything for sure...

I used to spend time looking at peer, now, I don't do that at all as it doesn't help anything at all...

Anyway... maybe should have a "coffee morning" and have a chat... for anyone who cares to come and talk about life as pro photographer.

Hart

 

[Astroboy77]

Interesting...

Its never easy... when we are in the action, we feel alive but most days spent doing "seed planting" and that could be quite tiring and to some degree difficult to "measure" and we just don't know when this "seed" that we plant will grow...

However, at the same time, we don't plant the "seed", we won't see anything for sure...

I used to spend time looking at peer, now, I don't do that at all as it doesn't help anything at all...

Anyway... maybe should have a "coffee morning" and have a chat... for anyone who cares to come and talk about life as pro photographer.

Hart

Even after you planted the "seed" and you manage to grow it... it still a tough job to maintain the "seed" to let it grow to become a successful plant... :cry:

 

[chngpe01]

Interesting...

Its never easy... when we are in the action, we feel alive but most days spent doing "seed planting" and that could be quite tiring and to some degree difficult to "measure" and we just don't know when this "seed" that we plant will grow...

However, at the same time, we don't plant the "seed", we won't see anything for sure...

I used to spend time looking at peer, now, I don't do that at all as it doesn't help anything at all...

Anyway... maybe should have a "coffee morning" and have a chat... for anyone who cares to come and talk about life as pro photographer.

Hart

I think it is a good idea to have a coffee and sharing session and just chill out - let me see if we can kick it off. How about 14 Apr evening about 5+ at my studio? I PM you the location:

1. chngpe01

 

[Agetan]

I think it is a good idea to have a coffee and sharing session and just chill out - let me see if we can kick it off. How about 14 Apr evening about 5+ at my studio? I PM you the location:

1. chngpe01

Love to join but 7pm will be earliest that i can manage.

Hart

 

[Agetan]

Even after you planted the "seed" and you manage to grow it... it still a tough job to maintain the "seed" to let it grow to become a successful plant... :cry:

sure... it is always a challenge... but if one will hang on and put in the hardwork, i don't think it is not do-able.

success don't come easy but certain lots of hoops to jump and lots of sweat and perhaps some tears... However, one thing for sure is, if you enjoy the process, it is quite fun...

Hart

 

[Astroboy77]

sure... it is always a challenge... but if one will hang on and put in the hardwork, i don't think it is not do-able.

success don't come easy but certain lots of hoops to jump and lots of sweat and perhaps some tears... However, one thing for sure is, if you enjoy the process, it is quite fun...

Hart

yah.. i agree success don't come easy... even if one wanted to hang on and put tons of hardwork... at the current situation where DSLR camera & lens are selling cheaper and cheaper.. everyone is owning one, those wannabe pro are charging lesser, customers/ client are not willingly to pay for the good services or photos u can produce coz they dun really care abt photo composition anymore... cheap is their main concern... so how long does one is able to hold on and survive in this harsh tiny red dot country?..

yes most do enjoy the process and it definitly fun, especially when the photos turn out great! but i doubt u can survive base on that... :cry:

 

[Agetan]

customers/ client are not willingly to pay for the good services or photos u can produce coz they dun really care abt photo composition anymore... cheap is their main concern...

yes most do enjoy the process and it definitly fun, especially when the photos turn out great! but i doubt u can survive base on that... :cry:

I don't quite agree with about client don't care about quality stuff anymore. On the contrary, there are the increasing number of clients are looking for better things. As the society is growing richer, there is always a demand in better things.

I have heard enough, "your competitor is giving me a better pricing", but the fact that if they call you back to tell you that, they want your service. Of course, winning the job is one thing, meeting expectation is easy but exceeding expectation is not. So the aim is to exceed the expectation every single time.

It is about having the right product for the right people at the right price.

There are photographers who command 5-6 figures for family photography... and I do believe if those photographers exist, there is no short of client who wants quality work.

Regards,

Hart