Anymore market for DVCpro and Beta SP

[sundazz]

we have been talking on DV, mini DV, HD.. etc.
just wonder cameras and VT like Beta SP and DVCPRO still have people using for productions? is the market still there? Any commends, espcially those in the rental Biz will know? and well.. trucatus what you think since u have a wide range of equipment?

 

[alvinsclee]

One of the guys here (DXNMedia) is definitely using Digital Betacam for his work.

 

[DXNMedia]

Cannot afford Digital Betacam lar....S$80k u know!! Normally i will rent a facility if I need one.

DVCPro25 in my opinion is heading downhill, there are some people still using DVCPro50.
Panasonic is trying very hard to maintain it's DVCProHD now.

SPBeta is still widely used in budget productions & event coverage for B-roll. A lot of companies are filming on SP, editing with SP, then transfer to Digibeta for transmission masters because local broadcast stations only accepts DigiBeta master transmission tapes nowadays.

I would say that if there;s no market for DVCPro or SPBeta here, neighbouring countries would be dying for those machines, and they're deifnitely still worth every penny!

The problem here is that people likes to think old gears are useless.
I think it's only depending on how you make full use of them. :thumbsup:

 

[sharpshooter]

its a matter of time, analogue format like beta will phase out. problem is all these are expensive broadcast equipments, some production houses cannot justify to replace them over night, furthermore our tv station is still accepting beta for transmission. that's why panasonic came out with trade in promotion for their hd equipments.

 

[DXNMedia]

its a matter of time, analogue format like beta will phase out. problem is all these are expensive broadcast equipments, some production houses cannot justify to replace them over night, furthermore our tv station is still accepting beta for transmission. that's why panasonic came out with trade in promotion for their hd equipments.

Sorry, I stand to correct this, unless there's a double standard within the stations.
Ch5, 8, TV12, Vasantham, U all takes in DigiBeta now.....they won't take SPbeta anymore unless the delivery specs have been negotiated prior to production.

With the crap budget that the production companies have been trying to pitch for, of course they cannot justify the cost. What makes them think TV production is a cheap business. How are they able to sustain? Do the simple maths.. for a 24min episode, some can even pitch at $4k~ 5k per episode!! How are they going to pay for the camera crew, script writers, post production, etc...?

Even if the trend now is to exploit student as interns, how are they able to sustain?!
By eating free post-production lunch i would guess? Do all the work, deliver all the tape to the stations and tell the post house they got no money for post? :bsmilie:
Ask how many cameramen haven't been paid for the work they've done, and how many are still trying to bloody chase their payments? Ask how many out there have been ripped off?


Sadly this is the situation with our local broadcast industry...I hope MDA reads my ranting...they need to wake up and find out what is seriously wrong... :nono:

Meanwhile, that's why I am leaving the broadcast industry to do simpler, lesser stress video work that I think I may enjoy more despite suffering a reduced income. :sweat:

 

[alvinsclee]

... can even pitch at $4k~ 5k per episode!! How are they going to pay for the camera crew, script writers, post production, etc...

:bigeyes:

... Sadly this is the situation with our local broadcast industry...

Meanwhile, that's why I am leaving the broadcast industry to do simpler, lesser stress video work that I think I may enjoy more despite suffering a reduced income. :sweat:

:bsmilie: 师叔 (Master-uncle) foresaw the mess coming to the 武林江山 (fraternity) and has since 'retired to the mountains to meditate'... practising to be a happy 真人 ('real person') pursuing what is stated in my signature below: "... and live a life!"

Guess I'll leave it to those who possess real skills to pass on the 摄像真功 ('true videography') tradition if there is still a market for such kungfu

 

[trucatus]

we have been talking on DV, mini DV, HD.. etc.
just wonder cameras and VT like Beta SP and DVCPRO still have people using for productions? is the market still there? Any commends, espcially those in the rental Biz will know? and well.. trucatus what you think since u have a wide range of equipment?

Hmmm should start like this.....as long as the broadcaster still accept a transferred format upconverted one I mean, people will use older gears. The playback machines are expensive and most people can't bear to discard older machines if it can still deliver. Also the HD will take sometime to establish itself (high cost) and since the web streaming is popular the SD will last a longer time.

Hence the SP and the DVC Pro is still moving but most younger generations will discard using them altogether. Hope that helps.

 

[sharpshooter]

Sorry, I stand to correct this, unless there's a double standard within the stations.
Ch5, 8, TV12, Vasantham, U all takes in DigiBeta now.....they won't take SPbeta anymore unless the delivery specs have been negotiated prior to production.

why they don't take in betaSP?... DigiBeta machine suppose to be downward compatitable to playback SP.

 

[DXNMedia]

why they don't take in betaSP?... DigiBeta machine suppose to be downward compatitable to playback SP.

U ask them why lor... ;p

But in my opinion, i think it's a good move because SP tapes are prone to dropouts and visual tearing...by the time you master your final video to SP for transmission again, you're facing at least 2-3 genrations of quality loss. SP Beta is almost 20yr old technology. It's about time to retire SP, move on and improve.

Sadly, with technology improvement, the people involved did not seem to improve at the same time. Newer generations of people in the broadcast industry seems to think all about 'creativity' & 'content' that they failed to see the important aspects of maintaining technical quality.

The hype about HD TV is so huge that every little newbie film/tv producer wanna be says that they WANT and NEED to shoot in HD. But if they can't even handle SD TV well enough, don't even bother about HD!...In most SD TV work, i see a trend in poor lighting, poor sound, overexposed shots, etc....imagine you bring all these bad habits to HD...it's look 5 times worse and irritating.....but to the mentality of most consumers, "Got sound, got picture, can already." :thumbsd:


Not all Digibeta machines can play back SP tapes.... only those with a A in front of the model number (eg. A500P or A510P) can playback analog tapes. The newer generation of Digibeta tapes can play back most formats in the Digital Betacam family, including SP & SX, and IMX format. Those are the M series.

 

[sundazz]

Hmmm should start like this.....as long as the broadcaster still accept a transferred format upconverted one I mean, people will use older gears. The playback machines are expensive and most people can't bear to discard older machines if it can still deliver. Also the HD will take sometime to establish itself (high cost) and since the web streaming is popular the SD will last a longer time.

Hence the SP and the DVC Pro is still moving but most younger generations will discard using them altogether. Hope that helps.

In your opion, do u think there is still a demand for people who want to rent a panasonic AJ-D215H for shoot or productions? and anyone know what is a reasonable price to buy a used panasonic AJ-D215H? i am asking this is becos someone actually offered me a set of this camera to buy over and asking me to quote them a price.. not sure what is a reasonable price to buy and will it be an white elephant if there is no market for it whether it is for rental or for my own productions? :dunno:

 

[Faiz]

Gotta agree that productions houses are willing to take up the budget of 4k per ep! they shoot themselves , edit themselves , they are the talents , powkaliao! btw AJ 215 is an ageing camera , panasonic camera tend to lag after few years of service maybe because of wear and tear , used to see 215 quality 5 years ago but now the quality getting bad to worse after wear and tear!

 

[DXNMedia]

I would advise against that...Panasonic don't hold their value in resale. :nono:
But if you look at overseas market, they may be in demand....

Don't close your doors to only singapore market... look further.. :thumbsup:

 

[sundazz]

ok thx for the advise..
:think: maybe sell to neighbouring country!:think:
what is a good market price that u guys think worth buying over?

 

[Faiz]

Hahaha 2k?

 

[DXNMedia]

Faiz have been in the relevant video filming market longer....he should know the market price better than I do....if u ask me about post equipment, i can advise, but lost touch with grip and camera gears..... ;D

 

[trucatus]

The sad trend is the big budget projects land on the hands of few and majority will sqeeze the juice out of you with a little budget. So value your work. If you produce quality work, pricing have to match. Unless you do not value your own work than there is no choice but to be squeeze like a sugar cane.

 

[tommon]

Sorry, I stand to correct this, unless there's a double standard within the stations.
Ch5, 8, TV12, Vasantham, U all takes in DigiBeta now.....they won't take SPbeta anymore unless the delivery specs have been negotiated prior to production.

With the crap budget that the production companies have been trying to pitch for, of course they cannot justify the cost. What makes them think TV production is a cheap business. How are they able to sustain? Do the simple maths.. for a 24min episode, some can even pitch at $4k~ 5k per episode!! How are they going to pay for the camera crew, script writers, post production, etc...?

Even if the trend now is to exploit student as interns, how are they able to sustain?!
By eating free post-production lunch i would guess? Do all the work, deliver all the tape to the stations and tell the post house they got no money for post? :bsmilie:
Ask how many cameramen haven't been paid for the work they've done, and how many are still trying to bloody chase their payments? Ask how many out there have been ripped off?


Sadly this is the situation with our local broadcast industry...I hope MDA reads my ranting...they need to wake up and find out what is seriously wrong...

Meanwhile, that's why I am leaving the broadcast industry to do simpler, lesser stress video work that I think I may enjoy more despite suffering a reduced income.

I don't what planet you are in. :nono: I have jsut handled in 3 BetaSP Advert material to MediaCorp for Broadcast last week. Last we heard is that they can still except all format of DVCpro except the HD version. As the broadcast industry braces itself for the HD world, it is still not clear which way they will go. That's why Beta will be here at least for another year or 2 when they transit to the new format.:think:

Broadcast is all about the masses, therefore, if HDTV is not affordable to the mass, it is unlikely that they will totally switch over.

 

[DXNMedia]

I don't what planet you are in. :nono: I have jsut handled in 3 BetaSP Advert material to MediaCorp for Broadcast last week. Last we heard is that they can still except all format of DVCpro except the HD version. As the broadcast industry braces itself for the HD world, it is still not clear which way they will go. That's why Beta will be here at least for another year or 2 when they transit to the new format.:think:

Broadcast is all about the masses, therefore, if HDTV is not affordable to the mass, it is unlikely that they will totally switch over.

Delivering tapes to Mediacorp in BetaSP doesn't mean that they are using that particular tape of yours that you've sent in for direct broadcast. For TVCs, they would compile a series of TVCs for airtime transmission.

You should count yourself lucky that the station did not ask you for a Digibeta tape to be delivered or your production cost would have escalated. :nono:

I would assume that you've mainly done low-mid end tvcs and that's why the stations allowed your submission to be in BetaSP.
Secondly, I would assume that you've never done any long format programs of at least 22mins in duration in the past 2~3 months, coz that's when they started to insist delivery of transmission tapes to be in DigiBeta format.

:nono:

 

[DXNMedia]

I don't what planet you are in. :nono: I have jsut handled in 3 BetaSP Advert material to MediaCorp for Broadcast last week. Last we heard is that they can still except all format of DVCpro except the HD version. As the broadcast industry braces itself for the HD world, it is still not clear which way they will go. That's why Beta will be here at least for another year or 2 when they transit to the new format.:think:

Broadcast is all about the masses, therefore, if HDTV is not affordable to the mass, it is unlikely that they will totally switch over.

Also my friend, Sony had officially terminated the BetaSP line of products abt 2 year ago....if you think SPbeta will stay for long, it will, probably in the corporate video world...and probably the repair/maintainence cost will be so high that it's more worth it to chuck the gears and buy new machines.

 

[ilovehouse]

Also my friend, Sony had officially terminated the BetaSP line of products abt 2 year ago....if you think SPbeta will stay for long, it will, probably in the corporate video world...and probably the repair/maintainence cost will be so high that it's more worth it to chuck the gears and buy new machines.

I agree. SP is no longer the preferred form of tape delivery. Production houses would most prob buy a DBETA rather than a SP deck.

Just look at MPEG IMX, it was touted as a replacement to DBETA cos of tis intraframe 3.3:1 compression but DBeta still rocks more heh even though they have the same color space information. 4:2:2. I quote a classic example. Mediaworks. but when they merged, what happened? hehe. go figure to what happened to all that IMX equip.

BUT, marketing is what makes Sony a winner. They throw presentations everywhere, invite everyone, give all who attend a sony jacket and stuff. heh. Marketing lah. that's how they drive their brand name, in both consumer and the professional market.

and to be honest, the big films were shot on the Cinealta. If hollywood uses it, how can they really lose? I mean, Arri and Thomson Grass Valley and the new boy, Red can put up a fight, but my take on it is that 1080i is on the up curve and will stay here for a while longer than expected.

IMHO, and this is what i'm sharing from experience. cheers!