WT**** things are getting bad, but I really did not realise, it's that bad!!!


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fotoudavid

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2005
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Actually i tot we shd be used to these shoots liao??? happened so many times, and such was these discussions for many occasions, just let them be loh.

anyway, why shd ppl waste money on these shoots???
 

Leong23

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
3,191
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within myself
Just let them be lor......

Just take it that they are there just to take record shots for their XMMs collection.
 

Deadpoet

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2004
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DP: So how would you like it to be solved? Any suggestions?

Times are bad. Do you think people will sign up if the organizer reduce the group size? It means increase in fees, do you not know?

If you can give a solution to this problem, I am sure we can be a high class site.

Try to suit your surroundings, and not forcing the surroundings to suit you. First we are not a professional site. Second, you are a professional. You have high expectations, but not me, as a hobbyist.
First let me address your last statement. I am a hobbyist. I have reasonably high expectation. I also have some sense what works and what not. What works has nothing to do with cost, it has to do with our own standard and expectation, and go get it. Maybe yours are very different.

If times are bad, shouldn't models and organizers shoulder part of the load and charge less?

Cost is the same if 5 photographers set out to hire a model, spend 2-3 hours working with her. We all did it way back then when AJ, Astin, Vince, just to name a few of the old guys, were organizing. Modelinn is doing that now.

But what the GWCs want, is the buffet style mass orgy shoots.

I am not at all laying any blames onto the organizers nor the models. They supply what photographers want. I am saying, and putting the blame squarely on the GWCs, who wants 4, 5, 6 models, more the merrier, because all they care is to machine gunned 100 shots in 10+ minutes minutes, next model. Cost is the same, now, they have more so called "trophies" to grace their desktops.

Disgusting.

Solution? There is none, but that does not mean the current situation is anything that is acceptable. Why is the overall standard of photography in the portraits forum on a death spiral? Because GWCs do not care.
 

CYRN

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2002
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Why is the overall standard of photography in the portraits forum on a death spiral? Because GWCs do not care.
Realli... venting it here also like that...

stay kool... no let it affect your mood to hoot your "the ONE" pic! ;)

sometimes... market change, even society change.... :(
 

V

vince123123

Guest
More lights? I got another 9 lights to throw in, total 4100W in all :)

Got another 2400Ws to throw in.

We are up to 15,600W. Not quite 2000W per model at that 8 model shoot leh. A problem. We need more lights.

Btw guys, I shoot alone, you cannot shoot while I am shoot ah :nono:

...

We will make jing moonlight as the stylist :)
 

V

vince123123

Guest
That is actually the key, not so much the no. per group, but the no. of groups. Cos for the organiser, for that same Saturday that he/she takes off work/leisure, more groups means a greater multiplier of profits for the same amount of time.

Back in the days where organisers care about the quality of the shoot, only one model at a time per 3 hour session :)

this is how you can maximize the return of investment for such photo shoot..
 

V

vince123123

Guest
Actually the funny thing is, for the shoots nowadays, where there are so many models in a session, sometimes out of the 5 featured, I only like one. Then the question in my mind for a long time is, should I join? I only will be shooting what I want 1/5 of the time, and most of the time, I'll pass. If that 1 had been the only one featured, I would have joined in a snap.

First let me address your last statement. I am a hobbyist. I have reasonably high expectation. I also have some sense what works and what not. What works has nothing to do with cost, it has to do with our own standard and expectation, and go get it. Maybe yours are very different.

If times are bad, shouldn't models and organizers shoulder part of the load and charge less?

Cost is the same if 5 photographers set out to hire a model, spend 2-3 hours working with her. We all did it way back then when AJ, Astin, Vince, just to name a few of the old guys, were organizing. Modelinn is doing that now.

But what the GWCs want, is the buffet style mass orgy shoots.

I am not at all laying any blames onto the organizers nor the models. They supply what photographers want. I am saying, and putting the blame squarely on the GWCs, who wants 4, 5, 6 models, more the merrier, because all they care is to machine gunned 100 shots in 10+ minutes minutes, next model. Cost is the same, now, they have more so called "trophies" to grace their desktops.

Disgusting.

Solution? There is none, but that does not mean the current situation is anything that is acceptable. Why is the overall standard of photography in the portraits forum on a death spiral? Because GWCs do not care.
 

Long Thai Bean

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2003
1,343
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The 3rd Rock
beansproutpics.zenfolio.com
Actually the funny thing is, for the shoots nowadays, where there are so many models in a session, sometimes out of the 5 featured, I only like one. Then the question in my mind for a long time is, should I join? I only will be shooting what I want 1/5 of the time, and most of the time, I'll pass. If that 1 had been the only one featured, I would have joined in a snap.
Very good point and exactly my sentiments on a lot of these mass groupo shoot as well ...

Mix in the newbie models with 1 or 2 anchor models and try to get 15-24 photogs to come and shoot everything ... And this is the "better situation" ...

There are some budget shoots that just throw together a few newbies without much experience ... no concept or theme at all ... and just charge for the shoot ... "Recession - Budget Shoot"

I guess the resulting photos tell all .....
 

V

vince123123

Guest
What they do is to have the anchor models draw in the crowds, but boost their profitabilty by mixing in the newbie models which charge cheap rates.

Very good point and exactly my sentiments on a lot of these mass groupo shoot as well ...

Mix in the newbie models with 1 or 2 anchor models and try to get 15-24 photogs to come and shoot everything ... And this is the "better situation" ...

There are some budget shoots that just throw together a few newbies without much experience ... no concept or theme at all ... and just charge for the shoot ... "Recession - Budget Shoot"

I guess the resulting photos tell all .....
 

Xperio

New Member
Dec 7, 2008
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to be a portrait photographer in cs you must learn the art of ninja

the art of ninja allows you to perch above gaping eyes and drooling jaws, and get the best angle possible

:heart:
May the force be with you.:D I believe more in the Jedi Knight.:bsmilie:

Hmm... I do receive feedbacks from photographers about having the ratio too high and also short timings among intervals. I understand that this will be something we are looking at.:think:
 

Xperio

New Member
Dec 7, 2008
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When there is a demand, there will be supplies ... so I am not going to blame the suppliers.

However, I nearly fainted when I saw this thread about a shoot ...

4 models, 24 photographers, and 2 hours or 30 minutes per model with 5 others photographer fighting for the best angles, the organizer even claimed that newbies can learn from this shoot ...

HOW?

And how are any of the photographers going to get any decent shots is beyond my comprehension.

I sure cannot nder these circumstances!

Another shoot, 5 models, 25 photographers, and a measly 2 hours or 24 minutes per model with 4 other photographers jostling for position.

Another one, 4 models, 20 photographers, and 2 hours to shoot; another one, 8 models in 3 hours ... on and on and on, all I see, meat market...

Again, I don't blame the organizers, but the GWCs who are threatening seriously the standard of portraiture photography here in CS.

SAD.
Chill bro.:)
 

liarliar

Deregistered
May 13, 2007
629
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Times bad why, you won't believe it i tell you some guy will wait out for me early in the morning before JBP doors open just to ask me the tripod i have is that a 'stand', and wait until i finish shooting owls look all over the park for me ask me again for my tripod "where you get the 'stand' from".

Amateur :bsmilie:
 

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night86mare

Deregistered
Aug 25, 2006
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"we measure success by the number of keeper shots we have.

they measure success by the number of shots they have with the xmm"
 

luna_sea83

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2005
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"we measure success by the number of keeper shots we have.

they measure success by the number of shots they have with the xmm"
:bsmilie::bsmilie::thumbsup:
 

Deadpoet

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2004
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Chill bro.:)
I am cool. Literally, in an air conditioned room chilled to 19C :)


"we measure success by the number of keeper shots we have.

they measure success by the number of shots they have with the xmm"
Now that i am chilled. The GWC must not be successful at all, we rarely see their trophies, pictures of themselves with the XMM ...
 

night86mare

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Aug 25, 2006
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Now that i am chilled. The GWC must not be successful at all, we rarely see their trophies, pictures of themselves with the XMM ...
that is kept for their secret trophy room.

it is set aside just for prints of xmm.

quantity is more important than quality, when it comes to the gwc trophy hunter :bsmilie:
 

Long Thai Bean

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2003
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The 3rd Rock
beansproutpics.zenfolio.com
The GWC must not be successful at all, we rarely see their trophies, pictures of themselves with the XMM ...
NO ... they cannot show the pictures of themselves with the xmm .... less the wife,girlfriend or families find out what they are doing on the weekend morning .... then they will be banned from shooting xmm .... there won't be enough GWC to support these 24 photog with 6 model shoots ....

this would be disasterous headlines ....

"Sudden drop in GWC forces shoot organisers out of weekend business ... Models complain that business has been slow ..."

we must think ... and be considerate in times of recession ....

:bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

JOKE mode OFF .....
 

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