WikiLeaks releases classified US military video showing indiscriminate killing

[pokiemon]

This is horrifying!!!

WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff. Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded. For further information please visit the special project

website www.collateralmurder.com.

 

[Jix]

so sad. :cry:

 

[An drew]

Oh yeah, look at those dead bas****s.

Nice.

Good shoot'n

Thank you.

What is wrong with these people? They are like the Khmer Rouge.

 

[Evilmerlin]

They were under the impression that they just killed a bunch of insurgents. Won't you feel the same way? Not that I condone what they did but there is a reason why it's called the fog of war.

 

[9V-Orion Images]

Those photographers and journalists clearly knows the risk of being in a war zone. Mingling amongst the indigenous insurgents (noticed some of the people with rifles which the video clearly does not label) with a RPG lookalike equipment and peeking around the corner with the said equipment clearly place them on a high threat level as a legitimate target subjected to immediate retaliation.

While I sure do not support the occupation of Iraq, the flight crew of the AH-64 had clearly made an attempt to authenticate and classifying the targets before requesting authorisation to engage from higher ups in accordance with their RoE. I'm sure the battlefield commanders ain't going to stand around, do nothing and hope that the person with a RPG-7 lookalike turns out to be a photographer with a Sigma 150-500mm while friendly ground elements are just around the corner.

In war people dies, that's the reality of it.

 

[pokiemon]

i disagree. there are casualties of war and there are blatant negligence. how do you mistake an rpg for a 150-500mm (it's only half the length)? and if they had an rpg, why didnt they use it on the chopper given it was circling around for some time? the people on the chopper had asked for clearance to engage them but clearly those people giving authorisation did not take a step further to verify (they could only base on what was communicated to them). something is very wrong here.

 

[xtemujin]

Everything is collateral damage in terms of USA actions.

 

[9V-Orion Images]

Just to clarify with you on some of the questions.

i disagree. there are casualties of war and there are blatant negligence. how do you mistake an rpg for a 150-500mm (it's only half the length)?

One of the standard identification of enemy soldiers are often based on the silhouette of the subject and at a distance of a few hundred meters the silhouette of a photographer with a telephoto lens and that of a insurgent with a RPG is almost identical. This is not the first time a cameraman or a photographer had been shot either.

and if they had an rpg, why didnt they use it on the chopper given it was circling around for some time?

Unguided RPG is practically useless against aerial targets though they certainly posed a threat to the ground elements of Bradley IFVs and Humvees just around the corner.

the people on the chopper had asked for clearance to engage them but clearly those people giving authorisation did not take a step further to verify (they could only base on what was communicated to them). something is very wrong here.

News report indicate that a battle had been going on in the area for a couple of hours now, with the coalition ground elements repeatable taking fire from insurgents emplaced in the location (which was also shown in the full version of the leaked video) and which was why the Apaches was called as reinforcement in the first place. Under such situation, the commanders themselves must have felt that the decisions that was taken (to shoot first, ask questions later) are definitely appropriate, After Action Report (AAR) and BDA (Battle Damage Assessment) found numerous weapons in the area.

All I can say is that those employee of Reuters chose to be at the wrong place and at the wrong time.

 

[hmjt]

I agree with 9V-Orion Images, this is war, its killed or be killed. Ask yourselves this, if you were to be in the commander's position how the heck are you going to 100% + chop + confirm that the target is a true blue insurgent, while your men are under fire? The reporters have themselves to blame period.

 

[neech7]

Shouldn't the journalists be wearing vests that say 'PRESS'?

 

[night86mare]

I agree with 9V-Orion Images, this is war, its killed or be killed. Ask yourselves this, if you were to be in the commander's position how the heck are you going to 100% + chop + confirm that the target is a true blue insurgent, while your men are under fire? The reporters have themselves to blame period.

firstly, while that is true, it is also fact that the soldiers in question seemed to claim that they were under fire when they were not.

other than that, the attitudes displayed in the video "come on, pick up weapon" was like it was a video game and more kills would give them more points or more street cred. there is a huge difference in what they would say if they valued life.

next, the van picking up the wounded reporter didn't seem to pose any threat to anyone, did it?

 

[night86mare]

also, some of the reports i have read said that the full video was ~39 minutes

at some point there was small arms fire being heard in a cluster of buildings.

in reponse, 3 hellfire missiles were fired indiscriminately into that cluster of buildings.

overkill much?

 

[pokiemon]

it is important to see it from 2 different perspectives - being in iraq and and viewing iraq from outside.

to me it is similar to lord of the flies - how they degenerate into monsters (whether we can blamed them for that besides the point). whilst i can empathise being in iraq for an extended period will turn you a cold emotionless killer (where you have to shoot first before you get shot), viewing from a peace-time perspective, it does appear they were callous and abusing their licence to kill on-sight.

the question is do they even feel remorseful after finding out they had killed the wrong people?

 

[An drew]

the question is do they even feel remorseful after finding out they had killed the wrong people?

I doubt it. Most of the Khmer Rouge did not feel any remorse, they just blamed their commanders.

 

[Gizmore]

firstly, while that is true, it is also fact that the soldiers in question seemed to claim that they were under fire when they were not.

other than that, the attitudes displayed in the video "come on, pick up weapon" was like it was a video game and more kills would give them more points or more street cred. there is a huge difference in what they would say if they valued life.

next, the van picking up the wounded reporter didn't seem to pose any threat to anyone, did it?

ermm... it is not like the van has an open top that allows all to see it carries nothing. for all we know, it could be loaded with explosives right?

just trying to see it from another angle.

 

[redmonsoon]

There has been reports of insurgents who, even while planting IEDs purposely carries video cameras/camera-looking devices, looking like journalists.

Tough decisions are made everyday. Whatever remorse they feel must not in any way hinder/delay the next scenario decision-making they encounter. No such thing as 100%. I will be darn worried fighting for a commander who must check, confirm & chop everything before I can switch safety off(in case mis-fire)..

Otherwise, why not the insurgents always have few of their own guys dressed like journalists, wearing PRESS, holding cameras with them.

Its way different over there, rules are different.
My tough decision is whether to buy this lens or that...hmm:think:

 

[night86mare]

ermm... it is not like the van has an open top that allows all to see it carries nothing. for all we know, it could be loaded with explosives right?

just trying to see it from another angle.

nuke the whole of iraq, all of the buildings are not open top

time to explode all of them to make sure :bsmilie:

 

[plsoong]

the video clearly highlights the mentality of certain factions of the angmohs.

and of all things, whether right or wrong killing, whether there were really insurgents in that group or not will always be a problem debating point.

The most worrying and most important thing in this video is the !@T&@(Q$*&Y#%P_OU#(% mentality and attitude of the gunner!!!!

It makes my blood boil by listening and/or reading what he utters....

and what will the U S of A do to educate these people? what will they do in future to better select against such people?

Sometimes, i wonder, if this gunner somehow gets attacked and is near death, will he remember the things he once uttered when he was making the indiscriminate killings? or will he just remain stubborn, proud of his country

 

[pokiemon]

these guys are hardened lah. you spend 6 months living in conditions like iraq and you will be eating your beef raw and bloody too. this war is quite sad.

 

[9V-Orion Images]

I find any discussion about integrity and morality in a warfare to be quite hypocritical as any resemblance of it vanish into thin air the moment the first shot is fired. 18 years old boys in the SAF combat units are trained to follow orders, not to think, and see their enemy as a target which is to be eliminated immediately and nothing more.

If orders from higher ups gave the order for me and my man to lase an enemy building for immediate destruction through a air strike, I do as I told with absolutely no question of any ambiguity towards my commanders' decisions. I sure ain't going to think about whether if this is a right choice, how many people in the building are going to die and the number of innocent civilians in the building nor visualise how my enemies will be blown to a million pieces.

Will I suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) when the dust settles? Probably so. Will I still be able to pull the trigger when faced with the enemy? Absolutely yes as I know any hesitation on my part even for a split second will put my lives and those of my buddies around me at risk.

The SAF is an armed force, not a civilian corporation. Its mission is to defeat its enemies, ruthlessly and completely. It is an instrument of controlled fury, designed to visit death and destruction of its foes... soldiers must have steel in their souls... must learn in war to kill and not to flinch, to destroy and not to feel pity, to be a flaming sword in the righteous cause of national survival.