Why Olympus or M43 users should keep their gear?

[ricohflex]

An alternative way if you have R5.
You won't be taking video of a particular short action sequence for more than 15 minutes.
So the overheating is a moot point.
Each 8K video frame can be extracted as a 35.4-megapixel still image, which gives the video mode a function equivalent to ultra-high-speed continuous shooting at up to 30 frames per second.

 

[Pitachu]

Canon R5 cost about US$3800.
For photographers who cannot afford the US$12,000 600mm F4 lens,
they have to settle for the 600mm F11 lens or maybe use a adapter
with some EF lens, but they will not be able to use a 2x TC on top of that.

As I said, everything is a compromise. In the case of canon, you have to give
up lots of cash, carry heavy weight and tripod or just to have Full Frame or Higher resolution.
Or you can consider their much cheaper 600mm F11 lenses........ seriously????? F11???

In the case of M43, just work within the smaller envelope, and keep improving your skills.
It is possible to still have very good and respectable photos.

It all depends on your priority.

An alternative way if you have R5.
You won't be taking video of a particular short action sequence for more than 15 minutes.
So the overheating is a moot point.
Each 8K video frame can be extracted as a 35.4-megapixel still image, which gives the video mode a function equivalent to ultra-high-speed continuous shooting at up to 30 frames per second.

 

[ricohflex]

DP review says can AF at F22.

 

[swifty]

If you’re happy with extracted stills from a video feed, sure go ahead. It begs the question why the need to go for FF quality if that’s your bar of quality acceptance.

Oh look, the Olympus 100-400 takes a TC2 too. 1600mm equiv FOV yeah!!

 

[swifty]

Sure. Third party lenses are always priced competitively.
And what's the relevance of the R5 in this thread? It's a fantastic stills camera by all accounts, as it should be being Canon's latest.
If your aim is stills photography, you definitely should be using it in stills mode. Not really sure why video was even brought up.
And the new 100-500 L lens also appears pretty good but at 600mm equiv FOV (via cropping on the R5), you're now collecting less light than the 300mm f/4 on m43. But you gain greater pixel density on your subject and the convenience of a zoom although at a much more expensive price point when paired with an R5.
So again, you win some and you loose some. Ain't equivalence great

 

[swifty]

The fate of m43 might not be changeable given the industry decline but it's not because it's an incapable system as you're implying.
They compete very well and their shooting envelope is far bigger than what you give it credit for.
We've been playing this game of looking around the entire world of APS-C and FF systems and yet little old m43 holds it's own.
Of course if development were to stop then advantages will surely fade with time and unfortunately Olympus' fate is all but sealed.

So predict all you like if it satisfies you but you've taken yet another thread off course when there are existing threads where you can sing the demise the m43 til the cows come home.
I'm not even arguing against that m43 faces a daunting challenge. It is, and the whole industry decline will take more casualties.
But trying to argue m43 has no advantages and is an incapable system, sorry but that's just nonsense.

 

[swifty]

So why don't you start another thread to discuss what you want to discuss. Dispense all the advice you like.
Oh, that's right there's already a thread for it. But start another one anyways if you like since you think you're doing the public a service, it's free to do so.

It's also ok to discuss the good points of a system, you know. Which is what the OP wants to do in this particular thread.

 

[Pitachu]

Thanks for the video review of the R5.

For US$3800, it is definitely a very capable camera..

But do not that even the reviewer kept to his 70-200 F2.8 Lens and the super expensive (US$12,000) 600mm F4 lenses.

I really do not think the Canon 600mm F11 lens going to work for serious photographers, especially with a 2x TC which makes it F22.
If you walk around with a camera in Aperture Priority mode set to F22 the whole day, you would know what I mean.
And if you Max Aperture is F22, it will be so difficult for you to see things in the viewfinder except in bright light.
Plus you will find that your ISO will be pushed quite high with no much room to maneuver.

Anyway, I have no doubt that the Canon R5 or Sony A7iv are good alternatives if you can also afford
all the lenses which you plan to use, and you can carry the total weight on a trip. Honestly,
the total US$15,800 is beyond my budget and I am not fit enough to carry FF systems anymore.

I am not sure if Canon or Sony has similar workshops like Olympus. I had Sony and Canon but
they once they have invited me for any workshop except for an introductory course.

For Olympus, they organized birding workshops for us and even lend me a E1mx + 300mm F4 lens
and another 40-150mm 2.8 on my EM5 mk 3 (both with 2x TC). I was actually carrying 2 cameras
during with 2 different Focal Range on a variety of birds during the 2 hour workshop.

I was not expecting the E1mx with a lenses +TC that can reach 1200mm to be so handy that I can
handle a second camera with 600mm at the same time.

Sigma and Tamron make competing 150mm to 600mm zooms EF mount. At lower cost.

R5 has 20 FPS still image too. New lens Canon RF 100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM.
Quote { The main thing Robert tested on his shoot was the Canon EOS R5's ability to shoot fast-moving birds in flight. He found that the camera's capability to shoot at up to 20fps with electronic shutter, combined with the new animal tracking AF and eye-tracking AF feature, was an extremely effective combination. } UnQuote

* Robert Marc Lehmann

Hands-on with Canon EOS R5 - Canon Europe

Nature and adventure photographers Ulla Lohmann and Robert Marc Lehmann talk about shooting with Canon's new state-of-the-art full-frame mirrorless camera, the Canon EOS R5.

www.canon-europe.com

.

------------------------------------------------

He tested R5 at ISO 12,800 and cannot see grain.

 

[Pitachu]

True MFT Killers? In all your posts, you seemed to focus on higher resolution as the most important factor.

Like I say, it all depends on your needs. If High Resolution is your priority, go and get a R5 or A7 or A9,
You should not even look at the list of APS-C cameras you mentioned.

But if you want to look at eg. Canon M6 Mk2 with 33 Megapixel and with1 or 2 EF-M lens,
then this camera may be a better choice over a M43 camera, especially when you don't even
need Environmental Sealing or Fully Articulated Screen.

Using EF lenses on the Canon M6 is ridiculous.
You basically add 154g and and extra 20mm to the length.
Then why use mirrorless in the first place.
You are just mentioning it to make the M6 looks better with its limited choice of lenses.
The adapter is probably for photographers who use the M6 as a backup camera.

Same for the rest of the cameras you mentioned.
Same for Sony and probably any other brands.
Why would I even use Sony Full Frame FE-mount lens on a 6600?
It's a waste of money and lots of extra weight?
Or is it again to cover for the lack of variety of lenses?

And Why would I use Sony APS E Mount Lenses on a A7 or A9 even though I can?
I scolded all my friends that do that that they are not maximizing the capabilities
of their Sony A7?

To maximize any system, you need to batch body and lenses to the format they are designed for.

IMHO, if you want to go Full Frame, then go all the way.
If you feel that that will blow your budget, then work within a smaller envelope.

To me, it is much better to have a more complete M43 system then
to have a mix and match system using all kinds of adapters.

For any camera to be a "True Blue M43 killer", it need to do the following
1) A compact body
2) The whole range of lenses

The problem with Sony, and Canon is that both of them focus on their
High Margin Full Frame Lenses and do not pay much attention to their
E-Mount or Canon EF-M series.

You have to look at the system as a whole and not focus on the camera body only.

Agree, R5 is a bit off topic.
The true blue MFT killers are not the Canon R5 and similar types.
Because that price category is extreme. That is a small % of market.

The true MFT killers are the small, light, reasonably priced, very capable APS-C mirrorless cameras.

Some of which are entry level linkages to their full frame because sharing the same mount, in their respective systems.

The M50 and M6 Mk2 can use EF lenses with an adapter.
The APS-C Nikon Z50 has a Z mount. To bring user into Z6, 7, or 8 in future.
The APS-C Leica CL and TL2 have L mount to bring users into SL2. (but not cheap because Leica)
Fuji mirrorless ILC are APS-C.
The APS-C Sony 5000 up to 6500, 6600, etc have E mount to bring users into A7R4 and A9 Mk2.

Olympus MFT is dead, so Panasonic is all alone and surrounded by rival brands.

The small, light, reasonably priced, very capable APS-C mirrorless cameras from rival brands WILL bite into Panasonic MFT sales.

At some point, Panasonic got to decide whether it is "Game Over" for MFT.

 

[Pitachu]

Canon is still trying a smaller format with EF-M.
Nikon has tried a smaller format with its V1.
Sony has its Company R100 and R10 bridge for smaller sensors.
Leica has its expensive rangefinders.
Most of them see a need for a smaller format but approach it a different way.

Not sure how you come to the conclusion that they realized MFT is a fatal error.

I have and still using Canon 7D, 60D, 70D and 80D (APS-C) for my events and I still
buy 2 M43 Cameras to supplement. One of the reasons is Canon do not have
reasonably price 300mm F2.8 and 600mm F4 for me to shoot concert events.

Like I say, learn to embrace every available format. Each has its strengths.
Even a GoPro camera with its small sensor can take photos where a
Full Frame camera cannot even take!

From 2008 to Jun 2020, no other major manufacturers have made MFT camera bodies - besides the 2 founding brands.
This proves that Leica, Canon, Fuji, Nikon and Sony (even Pentax) realised MFT was a fatal error by Olympus and Panasonic.
They were careful not to drop into this MFT hole.

Whereas APS-C and full frame are supported by the major manufacturers.
In other words, APS-C and full frame have a future.
MFT is in ICU. It has no future. As the years pass after 2020, it will get progressively WORSE for MFT.

Now if one is a NEW buyer, why would he buy MFT instead of an APS-C or full frame sensor camera?

Those who are heavily invested in MFT may continue to sing its praises. Because they are already stuck.

Some of the APS-C models are entry tickets into the brand's full frame system.

And with some, you can use an adapter and then use the lenses in the legacy system - with AF capability.
So if you have 20 EF lenses, you can use them with an adapter on a M6 Mk2.

One of my friends first bought an APS-C CL and then a full frame SL2. He can use his Made in Germany APO-Macro-Elmart-TL 60mm f/2.8 ASPH lens on the SL2 and still get a 20MP photo. No need for adapter. One L mount throughout the system. Fantastic results.

 

[swifty]

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX492LLJ_LQJ_Flyer.pdf

No wall was hit technologically. Economically, sure.

 

[Pitachu]

Whether a new buyer will still buy MFT is off topic.
I will start another thread for that.

Meanwhile, there is no compelling reason for any M43 users to get rid of their system immediately.
In fact, I am eagerly waiting for some of the announced lenses to be available and use my system
for another 3 to 5 years.

Now if one is a NEW buyer after 24 Jun 2020, why would he buy MFT instead of an APS-C or full frame sensor camera?
Knowing that it is deterioration all the way for MFT after 24 Jun 2020.

Those who are heavily invested in MFT may continue to sing its praises. Because they are already stuck.

 

[ricohflex]

What Panasonic can do is to learn from Sony.
Sony quietly dropped its A-mount cameras and lenses.
No need for dramatic announcement.
Silently transition from {A mount & E mount} to E mount.
In 2020, Sony brochures did not mention A-mount at all. Nor any A-mount camera bodies nor A-mount lenses.
It was as though suddenly to Sony, the A-mount never existed.

Likewise, Panasonic can introduce a few APS-C camera bodies and lenses in 2021, in addition to their existing full frame L mount systems.
In 2021, the Panasonic brochures can completely exclude any mention of MFT camera bodies, lenses and accessories.
As though suddenly to Panasonic in 2021, the MFT system never existed.
The change is silent to effect a smooth transition from {MFT & full frame} to {APS-C & full frame}.
Remove all MFT cameras and lenses from Panasonic show room.
MFT users who go to Panasonic to service their MFT cameras and lenses, can be told servicing will end in 2 years and MFT related spare parts will not be stocked by the company after that.
This is a theoretical approach to effect the change without making waves.

 

[Pitachu]

Here is another reason why M43 may stay....

Panasonic manager Yamane explains why Micro Four Thirds (and particularly the GH line) has a future – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[Pitachu]

Just noticed that Tokina now has joined in the M43 bandwagon.
Another exciting product, a palm size 400mm lenses
(Reach 800mm on M43 body)

And it is less than US$250 on B&H website!

Tokina - SZX SUPER TELE 400mm F8 Reflex MF

tokinalens.com

 

[Pitachu]

No, US$250 is not a sale price.

There is no rush to sell of everything cheap.

M43 mount lenses and accessories will probably be available the next 5 years as there are tons of users out there. And even for the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera which has both a EF mount and M43 mount, many videographers are still choosing the M43 mounts, as the lens are much more compact and affordable.

With all the new products for M43 keep coming out, It's actually quite exciting for current users or even new users of M43.

You are probably condemning every new M43 product that is released with the same comment because you are no longer actively using a M43 system anymore. For me I was excited because I missed some photo opportunities in Japan and wished I had a pocket size 800mm lenses with me, the Tokina lenses I just mentioned.

Tokina has to quickly sell off its stocks of its MFT 400mm mirror lens. Or else they lose money when MFT format dies.
This MFT 400mm mirror lens was surely conceived a very long time before 24 Jun 2020.

 

[ricohflex]

I use MFT (few items outfit). Seeing the end of MFT is simply acknowledging the truth. This is inevitable.
Just as existing users of 5¼ inch floppy disk knew it was doomed, when the (then) new 3½ inch floppy was invented by Sony.
These things are just tools. No need to pledge loyalty to them. They were good in their era or moment in history.
Like MFT was in 2008.
The world progressed and moved on. MFT became obsolete in 2020.
Not because MFT suddenly became unuseable.
But because its competitors have beaten it by a mile.
Competitors in the APS-C and full frame camps innovated and leaped light years ahead of MFT.
Thus APS-C was able to offer a much bigger sensor in a camera body that was lighter, smaller - and CHEAPER.

Most important of all, APS-C and full frame have a future. Whereas MFT has no future.

So a NEW buyer should know where to invest his money to build a camera system.
Phew. Thank goodness for progress. Otherwise still using CRT monitors.

 

[swifty]

I use MFT (few items outfit). Seeing the end of MFT is simply acknowledging the truth. This is inevitable.
Just as existing users of 5¼ inch floppy disk knew it was doomed, when the (then) new 3½ inch floppy was invented by Sony.
These things are just tools. No need to pledge loyalty to them. They were good in their era or moment in history.
Like MFT was in 2008.
The world progressed and moved on. MFT became obsolete in 2020.
Not because MFT suddenly became unuseable.
But because its competitors have beaten it by a mile.
Competitors in the APS-C and full frame camps innovated and leaped light years ahead of MFT.
Thus APS-C was able to offer a much bigger sensor in a camera body that was lighter, smaller - and CHEAPER.

Most important of all, APS-C and full frame have a future. Whereas MFT has no future.

So a NEW buyer should know where to invest his money to build a camera system.
Phew. Thank goodness for progress. Otherwise still using CRT monitors.

The truth exists only in your head. If/when m43 dies, then it is really the truth. Until that happens, which could be tomorrow, 5 yrs time, 10 years time, never, it only exists in your head.
You think it will happen, that's fine. Have your opinion. Don't state it as a fact, cos it's not. Simple as that. You want to warn others that it might happen, also fine.

Is m43 obsolete in 2020, hardly. I'm still playing this 'find the combo' game with you to try and see where all these other systems are obsoleting m43 performace.
Use real world comparisons. Your various statements are not grounded in reality.
Will m43 performance fall behind without further developments, of course. Make your predictions but until it happens, it's just your predictions.

Like I said before, the fate of m43 may not change. The conclusions may remain the same but your reasoning for it is just poor, especially technical ones.

My personal views are that m43 will change, now that Olympus has signalled their exit. I think it might become the de facto standard for indie and quirky, non-mainstream gear with little barriers to entry for third party manufacturers. It might be in the wilderness for a while especially if Panasonic goes APS-C in L-mount (a real possibility IMO), but it may thrive for the non-mainstream community in years to come. It could be quite exciting actually with smaller companies operated by enthusiasts who don't answer to shareholders.

 

[ricohflex]

True. It is not reality until it happens. Which can be said of suggestions that Olympus MFT will close shop before 24 Jun 2020.
That is how the cookie crumbles.

Monitor whether Panasonic gives up MFT.
I think Panasonic will, since there is less benefits in it anymore.

Without Panasonic as a main mass manufacturer, most of the impetus of MFT would have gone. Since Olympus folded.
MFT would be relegated to a heterodox, off the main stream sensor format made as an eccentric product by minor players.

Fuji (APS-C + Medium format) + Pentax (APS-C + Full Frame + Medium format) + Leica (APS-C + Full Frame + Medium format) + Nikon, Canon, Sony (APS-C and Full Frame) >>> Panasonic.MFT and Full Frame
It is no fun being the lone mass manufacturer of MFT.

And Panasonic needs to nurture its L mount full frame system.

 

[blackmondy]

Everyone talks as if if Olympus dies, all your m43 cameras will stop working, as if they are controlled by a central server.
I'm happy if people dump their m43 cameras. That means more dirt cheap m43 cameras to play with.