Why Olympus or M43 users should keep their gear?

[Pitachu]

By now, everyone (M43 users and non-users) have hear all the bad news about Olympus.
As a Panasonic M43 ex-user and Olympus user, I decided to start a thread on the benefits
of M43 to encourage current user to hold on to all their gears.

If you are a non-believer of M43, your feedback is still welcomed, but I don't think it is necessary
to keep emphasizing on higher resolution, wider dynamic range and similar or lighter body weights
of current Full Frame Camera. If you need any of the above, by all means, choose a Full Frame Camera.

For M43 users, please post the benefits of the M43 you have discovered, as I am still a pretty new user
(less than 2 years) and have only discovered a fraction of the benefits

 

[Pitachu]

I remembered about 2 years back my brother showed up at a family gathering with
a Panasonic GX8 with a 25mm F1.4 lens (equal to 50mm on Full Frame).
He was shooting a lot pictures in the evening in the house without a flash and the pictures are pretty good.
I was surprised that the whole setup was so tiny. This is where I got interested and start googling
M43 lenses and I found that there are several M43 lenses with aperture F2 and below at
very acceptable prices.

A Panasonic Lenses 50mm equivalent F1.4 cost US$700.
A Sony Full Frame 50mm F1.4 Lenses cost about US$1500 and is huge.

I also realized that there are also a lot of gems for Wide Aperture M43 Lenses
1) Panasonic 10-25 F1.7 - makes a good video lenses with constant aperture
(dont think FF has a similar 20 -50mm with this constant aperture)
2) Olympus 60mm F2.8 (equivalent to 120mm)
(don't think Canon or Sony has a similar macro lenses at F2.8

Note: We are looking at the Brightness/Speed for Aperture. FF has more Depth of Field Control
(and background blur) at wide apertures but for me, for most situations, brightness / speed
is more impt so that I can keep my ISO low.

 

[Castor Troy]

Equivalence matters.
The PanaLeica 25 1.4 is a 50/2.8 equivalent.
If you tell me it does not matter at all, then I'll tell you my Panasonic FZ20 has a 432mm F2.8 lens that beats full frame in terms of light gathering ability, size and weight. And has class-leading IS.
And FF at ISO 800 is better than m43 at ISO 200 for noise control and dynamic range.
I have FF and APS-C setups too, in addition to m43.
Pentax and Nikon.
Seems I always choose dying brands..

 

[Silencerkw]

imo M43 is perfect for oversea travelling. Small & lightweight. No horse run
I will be using my Panny M43 cam & lenses for as long as it last cos
1. Don't want to spend too much $$$ jump to full frame
2. full frame cam body & lenses are bulkier, heavier and much more expensive

 

[ricohflex]

The conditions laid down at beginning of the thread - is simply don't say what one does not want to hear.
Something like : We just want to hear praise down here. AKA online echo chamber.

I will keep my very small set of MFT - 99% of the reason is simply because it has ZERO or near ZERO resale value.
And NOT because it is ....{ wonderful, wonderful+2, wonderful+3 }.
The PAID ex-ambassadors of Olympus used to help in this collective-bluff-ourselves delusion.

In my opinion MFT is OBSOLETE in 2020. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.

Not because it was no good in 2008.
Progress over the years is such that by 2020 MFT has been overtaken by rival sensor formats.
MFT new production line in manufacturer's factories has no reason for existence in 2020 or after.
(not referring to MFT equipment already bought by users)

Panasonic should cease MFT cameras + lenses production soon.
Time to move on.

Just like Sony, Panasonic, Aiwa, Sanyo, Toshiba, JVC, Sharp, eventually stopped making tape cassette Walkman players.

By analogy home computer users are not using cathode ray tube monitors.
They used to, once upon a time.
The cathode ray tube monitors were good once upon a time.
But progress over the years changed that to most people using LED monitors.

 

[Castor Troy]

I need better dynamic range, high ISO performance and shallow depth of field.
Hence I use FF almost all the time.
The market has done the same likewise.
Death knell for m43.

 

[Pitachu]

The Conditions laid down is because the the advantages of Full Frame has been repeated more than once in more than 1 thread.

The purpose of this thread is to encourage current M43 systems to keep their systems.

If there is a need to go for Higher Resolution, Wider Dynamic Range etc, by all means go for a Full Frame System.
I myself have Full Frame and APS systems.

Full Frame Systems is definitely better in some aspects compared to M43,
just like Medium & Large Format DSLRs are better than Full Frame in some ways.

To think that M43 should cease to exist and users should move to Full frame is just like saying that Full Frame should cease to exist because Medium Format DSLRs are better. Why did Full Frame Users not move up to Medium Format in their quest for perfection? Could be portability, availability of lenses, no need for even higher resolution or dynamic range etc.

This is what I felt when using a M43 system. I don't see a need to use Full Frame for the kinds of photos I am taking (mainly leisure and sharing on
social media).But I like to have a wide variety of lenses (Fisheye, Macro, Super Teles) for my interests and i assemble my whole system at 1/3 the price of a Sony or Canon system! And I can even bring all my 5 lenses and hike up a mountain. I didn;t survive with my 5Dmk ii kit for 8 hours on a Palace Tour in Japan!

There is definitely a need for a smaller format camera, and being a M43 user who appreciate the benefits, I definitely would like this format to remain.
In fact, when travelling can resume and if my Safari trip to Africa materialize, I will be getting another Olympus Camera and the 300mm F4
(equal to 600mm on Full Frame). Yes, A Sony Full Frame with a 600mm F4 is definitely better (maybe 25% to 30%) but the lenses itself costs
US$12,998 on BH Website, Canon 600mm F4 costs about the same). Can pay for my whole trip plus my whole Olympus kit!

So don't tell me consumer photo enthusiast should not be given a choice to bring along a more portable camera kit eg. M43 that costs 1/3 the price.
This is what's going to happen if M43 is gone. Users will be forced to pay exorbitant prices for some of the full frame lenses. Pray that it will not happen
that M43 is gone and we are all left with no choice.

I will be keeping my M43 system and buy up some of these lenses while I still can

The conditions laid down at beginning of the thread - is simply don't say what one does not want to hear.
Something like : We just want to hear praise down here. AKA online echo chamber.

I will keep my very small set of MFT - 99% of the reason is simply because it has ZERO or near ZERO resale value.
And NOT because it is ....{ wonderful, wonderful+2, wonderful+3 }.
The PAID ex-ambassadors of Olympus used to help in this collective-bluff-ourselves delusion.

In my opinion MFT is OBSOLETE in 2020. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.

Not because it was no good in 2008.
Progress over the years is such that by 2020 MFT has been overtaken by rival sensor formats.
MFT has no reason for existence in 2020 or after.

Panasonic should cease MFT cameras + lenses production soon.
Time to move on.

Just like Sony, Panasonic, Aiwa, Sanyo, Toshiba, JVC, Sharp, eventually stopped making tape cassette Walkman players.

By analogy home computer users are not using cathode ray tube monitors.
They used to, once upon a time.
The cathode ray tube monitors were good once upon a time.
But progress over the years changed that to most people using LED monitors.

 

[iguoh]

I moved from a Nikon D700 to m43. My first m43 camera was the E-PL1. The longest I have ever held on to a camera was the E-M5 mk1. I had it from launch until just recently when I bought a used E-M1ii. In between, I tried a Fujifilm X-T10. I would say you need to be clear what you are looking for. If you like shallow depth of field, smooth bokeh for portraits then a full frame will definitely be better. I like the m43 system because for what I do with my camera, it gives me the best weight to performance ratio. The X-T10, though having a larger sensor, did not really benefit me for the type of photos I take. Within m43, I like Olympus bodies better than Panasonic bodies and have tried both. My biggest issue with Olympus is the price. Right now, I really cannot get myself to buy anything brand new as the pricing is pretty high for what you get. I think Olympus has priced themselves out and is just milking their fans. I hope the it doesn't disappear but if it does, I will probably jump to a full frame mirrorless system.

 

[JW73]

There are some very good lens in the M4/3 camps. A system , the lenses consideration are very important too. Look at some of the newer FF mirrorless lens. To keep the size small, the largest aperture size can go up to f8-f11.

Olympus is the only system I dare to continue to shoot under rain. Most outdated DSLR or mirrorless from other brands also depreciate in price. Why get so affected? I used to have a $2800 FF D750..now i want to sell at $1k , no one wants to buy it.Haha. The key is after buying the equipment, better use it more often.

 

[JW73]

Those who wants to sell their m4/3 equipment as they find the images or videos it churn out are horrible. Please sell it cheap. I am eagerly looking to buy

 

[Pitachu]

Wait for their product launch or sale. Try to be their club member to be in their email list. They have some very good ideas. eg. About 200 of us bought the EM5 mk3 for only about $1300 and at one time they are giving away their 45mm F1.8 in their xmas 14 day sale or something like that.

Other that, I got most of my gear second hand. Anyone one to let go some Pro Lenses at an attractive price eg. 40-150 F2.8 can PM me

I moved from a Nikon D700 to m43. My first m43 camera was the E-PL1. The longest I have ever held on to a camera was the E-M5 mk1. I had it from launch until just recently when I bought a used E-M1ii. In between, I tried a Fujifilm X-T10. I would say you need to be clear what you are looking for. If you like shallow depth of field, smooth bokeh for portraits then a full frame will definitely be better. I like the m43 system because for what I do with my camera, it gives me the best weight to performance ratio. The X-T10, though having a larger sensor, did not really benefit me for the type of photos I take. Within m43, I like Olympus bodies better than Panasonic bodies and have tried both. My biggest issue with Olympus is the price. Right now, I really cannot get myself to buy anything brand new as the pricing is pretty high for what you get. I think Olympus has priced themselves out and is just milking their fans. I hope the it doesn't disappear but if it does, I will probably jump to a full frame mirrorless system.

 

[ricohflex]

A feel good thread does no harm. Particularly for users already committed with much equipment.

As far as we know - Hasselblad, Alpa, Canon, Pentax, Nikon, Leica and Fuji have not announced plans to join MFT after 24 Jun 2020.

Panasonic is now forced by Olympus MFT collapse to re-assess the situation in which they alone hold the fort for MFT.
Do they want to?
Do they need to?

Panasonic is quite good in higher end video e.g. EVA-1 or VariCam LT 4K S35.
(not talking about GH5 here)

Panasonic is a giant conglomerate that does not need the camera business, whatever the sensor format and regardless of video or still picture.

What is the future direction if Panasonic wants to grow the L mount alliance?

All that Panasonic senior executives said in interviews before 24 Jun 2020 no longer apply.
It will not be fair to hold them to their promises said before before 24 Jun 2020.

 

[Pitachu]

As far as we know - Hasselblad, Alpa, Canon, Pentax, Nikon, Leica and Fuji have not announced plans to join MFT after 24 Jun 2020.
>> Not sure why is this mentioned here.

Panasonic is now forced by Olympus MFT collapse to re-assess the situation in which they alone hold the fort for MFT.
>> Olympus MFT has collapsed? Being sold does not mean that it has collapsed.
>> In fact, Olympus has just announced new firmware for several camera bodies and lenses after 24 Jun 2020.

Panasonic is a giant conglomerate that does not need the camera business, whatever the sensor format and regardless of video or still picture.
>>Olympus do not need the Camera business too! It is just forced to sell off in order to restructure and keep the stakeholders happy.

What is the future direction if Panasonic wants to grow the L mount alliance?
>> I have more doubt about where the L mount will succeed compared to MFT will continue, simply because the MFT users are several thousand times more than L-Mount users.

>> Also, if I am to move to full frame one day, I will either move to Sony or Canon, rather than Panasonic,
even though I had the Panasonic G9 in the past and 2 Panasonic MFT Lenses currently.

 

[iguoh]

Those who wants to sell their m4/3 equipment as they find the images or videos it churn out are horrible. Please sell it cheap. I am eagerly looking to buy

Haha, me too. I am not about to abandon m43, just waiting for people to dump their system cheap and I am happy to pick it up. I think it still takes great photos.

 

[skf]

Haha, me too. I am not about to abandon m43, just waiting for people to dump their system cheap and I am happy to pick it up. I think it still takes great photos.

me 3, still waiting for the 150-400.
Have updated the recent firmware release too
Now looking at the 100-400, considering whether to replace my Pana 100-400 with this

 

[ricohflex]

They all forgot something.

The problem for MFT is that it has a close neighbour named APS-C, that will eat its lunch.

 

[Pitachu]

I would rather use the word 'prefer" than "forgot".

When APS-C was introduced, I fell in love with it and learned to embraced its benefits.
Suddenly I have a much lighter camera body and with the crop factor of about 1.5,
my tiny 75-300mm zoom became a 100-400zoom and my 100-400 became a 150-600mm zoom!

In addition, because of the smaller sensor, the EOS 7 can focus and shoot much quicker
than my EOS 5D mk2. Capturing the right moment with the right expression became a breeze.

But manufacturers must have sensed that the market still desires a even smaller form factor
between compact and APS-C.

Hence, the M43 and even the Nikon 1v (cannot remember the exact name).

I was a follower of the Canon APS-C series, having upgraded from 50D to 60D to 70D to 80D.
But when i finally out a MFT, I felt the weight difference and portability
and willing to sacrifice a bit of image quality for the benefits.

Apparently, Portability and convenience is a top priority for a lot of people.
Otherwise, there wouldn't have been Compact Cameras (eg. Sony R100 etc).

They all forgot something.

The problem for MFT is that it has a close neighbour named APS-C, that will eat its lunch.

 

[Pitachu]

F1.4 is F1.4 and F2.8 is F2.8.
This is a measurement of light going thru the lens to the sensor.

A 2x Crop factor is different from using a 2x Tele-converter.
A 2x Crop factor DOES NOT reduce the light falling onto the sensor by half.
Otherwise all the photographers' measurements they have memorized will go haywire.

With the same setting of Shutter speed, Aperture and ISO on any camera
including your Panasonic FZ20, MFT and full Frame, the brightness
of the images on all the 3 cameras are supposed to be the same, as all
these are "yardstick" measurements. eg. 1cm is 1cm whether you
use a metal or plastic ruler to measure.

The differences are image quality, noise and the color bias etc.

When people say a F1.4 is equal to a FF F2.8, they are referring to Depth of Field.
But DOF is a 2 edged knife, as shallower depth of field is not necessarily better
especially when you are taking hyper focal landscapes. When taking Macros,
there are also times where I find that I have opened the aperture too wide
and parts of the object behind has become blur.

So, another reason for M43 users to keep their system, you have access to
more affordable lenses wider than F1.4.

Equivalence matters.
The PanaLeica 25 1.4 is a 50/2.8 equivalent.
If you tell me it does not matter at all, then I'll tell you my Panasonic FZ20 has a 432mm F2.8 lens that beats full frame in terms of light gathering ability, size and weight. And has class-leading IS.
And FF at ISO 800 is better than m43 at ISO 200 for noise control and dynamic range.
I have FF and APS-C setups too, in addition to m43.
Pentax and Nikon.
Seems I always choose dying brands..

 

[ricohflex]

That is why Sony made the A6600 in Sep 2019.
Canon made the M6 Mk 2 in Sep 2019 and M50 in Feb 2018
Small and light APS-C. Especially for video bloggers. Aimed at GH5.

To eat MFT's lunch.

Panasonic may drop MFT and make an APS-C with L mount, to bring users into the L mount.
When Olympus was in ICU but still barely alive, Panasonic kept up the pretence of supporting MFT.
After the death of Olympus, there is no need for Panasonic to pretend anymore.

 

[Pitachu]

I am not a videographer, and I hardly shoot videos with my DSLR and but have spoken
to 1 or 2 photographers who uses Panasonic.

But Panasonic or any other manufacturers will be dumb to drop any successful camera line.
The Panasonic GH series has gained a lot of approval from Videographers and there are
some great PanaLeica lenses eg. PanaLeica 10-25 F1.7. This is F1.7 and Constant Aperature
and ideal for videos. There is hardly any brands with a similar lenses, FF or APS-C.

The Sony 6600 is a good camera, which I recommended to some of my friends
who think they just want a good camera and some standard zooms and not interested in
some of the Pro Quality lenses Sony FF.

BUT the 6600 is not going to replace the Panasonic GH5.
And if you are seriously into videos, What lenses are you to pair it with?
Sony is NOT going to invest in providing Pro Lenses for the the 6xxx series, as it has
its A7s series for video-graphers (body + lenses will set you back a few times more)

That is why Sony made the A6600 in Sep 2019.
Canon made the M6 Mk 2 in Sep 2019 and M50 in Feb 2018
Small and light APS-C. Especially for video bloggers. Aimed at GH5.

To eat MFT's lunch.

Panasonic may drop MFT and make an APS-C with L mount, to bring users into the L mount.
When Olympus was in ICU but still barely alive, Panasonic kept up the pretence of supporting MFT.
After the death of Olympus, there is no need for Panasonic to pretend anymore.