Why Olympus or M43 users should keep their gear?


ricohflex

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Feb 24, 2005
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What Panasonic can do is to learn from Sony.
Sony quietly dropped its A-mount cameras and lenses.
No need for dramatic announcement.
Silently transition from {A mount & E mount} to E mount.
In 2020, Sony brochures did not mention A-mount at all. Nor any A-mount camera bodies nor A-mount lenses.
It was as though suddenly to Sony, the A-mount never existed.

Likewise, Panasonic can introduce a few APS-C camera bodies and lenses in 2021, in addition to their existing full frame L mount systems.
In 2021, the Panasonic brochures can completely exclude any mention of MFT camera bodies, lenses and accessories.
As though suddenly to Panasonic in 2021, the MFT system never existed.
The change is silent to effect a smooth transition from {MFT & full frame} to {APS-C & full frame}.
Remove all MFT cameras and lenses from Panasonic show room.
MFT users who go to Panasonic to service their MFT cameras and lenses, can be told servicing will end in 2 years and MFT related spare parts will not be stocked by the company after that.
This is a theoretical approach to effect the change without making waves.
 

Pitachu

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Pitachu

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Just noticed that Tokina now has joined in the M43 bandwagon.
Another exciting product, a palm size 400mm lenses
(Reach 800mm on M43 body)

And it is less than US$250 on B&H website!

 

ricohflex

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Panasonic's Yamane is talking about whether he has a job in near future.
Tony Northrup remarked that we should not ask an Olympus employee whether the company camera division will cease operations.
Likewise, what do we expect Yamane to say? (But Panasonic still got full frame, so Yamane is still safe - maybe)
Of course he will spin the standard story.
Which in the case of Olympus before 24 Jun 2020 was all fake. Now we know.
Until one day Panasonic says "The End" for MFT.
 

ricohflex

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Tokina has to quickly sell off its stocks of its MFT 400mm mirror lens. Or else they lose money when MFT format dies.
This MFT 400mm mirror lens was surely conceived a very long time before 24 Jun 2020.
 

Pitachu

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No, US$250 is not a sale price.

There is no rush to sell of everything cheap.

M43 mount lenses and accessories will probably be available the next 5 years as there are tons of users out there. And even for the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera which has both a EF mount and M43 mount, many videographers are still choosing the M43 mounts, as the lens are much more compact and affordable.

With all the new products for M43 keep coming out, It's actually quite exciting for current users or even new users of M43.

You are probably condemning every new M43 product that is released with the same comment because you are no longer actively using a M43 system anymore. For me I was excited because I missed some photo opportunities in Japan and wished I had a pocket size 800mm lenses with me, the Tokina lenses I just mentioned. :cool:

Tokina has to quickly sell off its stocks of its MFT 400mm mirror lens. Or else they lose money when MFT format dies.
This MFT 400mm mirror lens was surely conceived a very long time before 24 Jun 2020.
 

ricohflex

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Feb 24, 2005
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I use MFT (few items outfit). Seeing the end of MFT is simply acknowledging the truth. This is inevitable.
Just as existing users of 5¼ inch floppy disk knew it was doomed, when the (then) new 3½ inch floppy was invented by Sony.
These things are just tools. No need to pledge loyalty to them. They were good in their era or moment in history.
Like MFT was in 2008.
The world progressed and moved on. MFT became obsolete in 2020.
Not because MFT suddenly became unuseable.
But because its competitors have beaten it by a mile.
Competitors in the APS-C and full frame camps innovated and leaped light years ahead of MFT.
Thus APS-C was able to offer a much bigger sensor in a camera body that was lighter, smaller - and CHEAPER.

Most important of all, APS-C and full frame have a future. Whereas MFT has no future.

So a NEW buyer should know where to invest his money to build a camera system.
Phew. Thank goodness for progress. Otherwise still using CRT monitors.
 

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swifty

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I use MFT (few items outfit). Seeing the end of MFT is simply acknowledging the truth. This is inevitable.
Just as existing users of 5¼ inch floppy disk knew it was doomed, when the (then) new 3½ inch floppy was invented by Sony.
These things are just tools. No need to pledge loyalty to them. They were good in their era or moment in history.
Like MFT was in 2008.
The world progressed and moved on. MFT became obsolete in 2020.
Not because MFT suddenly became unuseable.
But because its competitors have beaten it by a mile.
Competitors in the APS-C and full frame camps innovated and leaped light years ahead of MFT.
Thus APS-C was able to offer a much bigger sensor in a camera body that was lighter, smaller - and CHEAPER.

Most important of all, APS-C and full frame have a future. Whereas MFT has no future.

So a NEW buyer should know where to invest his money to build a camera system.
Phew. Thank goodness for progress. Otherwise still using CRT monitors.
The truth exists only in your head. If/when m43 dies, then it is really the truth. Until that happens, which could be tomorrow, 5 yrs time, 10 years time, never, it only exists in your head.
You think it will happen, that's fine. Have your opinion. Don't state it as a fact, cos it's not. Simple as that. You want to warn others that it might happen, also fine.

Is m43 obsolete in 2020, hardly. I'm still playing this 'find the combo' game with you to try and see where all these other systems are obsoleting m43 performace.
Use real world comparisons. Your various statements are not grounded in reality.
Will m43 performance fall behind without further developments, of course. Make your predictions but until it happens, it's just your predictions.

Like I said before, the fate of m43 may not change. The conclusions may remain the same but your reasoning for it is just poor, especially technical ones.

My personal views are that m43 will change, now that Olympus has signalled their exit. I think it might become the de facto standard for indie and quirky, non-mainstream gear with little barriers to entry for third party manufacturers. It might be in the wilderness for a while especially if Panasonic goes APS-C in L-mount (a real possibility IMO), but it may thrive for the non-mainstream community in years to come. It could be quite exciting actually with smaller companies operated by enthusiasts who don't answer to shareholders.
 

ricohflex

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Feb 24, 2005
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True. It is not reality until it happens. Which can be said of suggestions that Olympus MFT will close shop before 24 Jun 2020.
That is how the cookie crumbles.

Monitor whether Panasonic gives up MFT.
I think Panasonic will, since there is less benefits in it anymore.

Without Panasonic as a main mass manufacturer, most of the impetus of MFT would have gone. Since Olympus folded.
MFT would be relegated to a heterodox, off the main stream sensor format made as an eccentric product by minor players.

Fuji (APS-C + Medium format) + Pentax (APS-C + Full Frame + Medium format) + Leica (APS-C + Full Frame + Medium format) + Nikon, Canon, Sony (APS-C and Full Frame) >>> Panasonic.MFT and Full Frame
It is no fun being the lone mass manufacturer of MFT.

And Panasonic needs to nurture its L mount full frame system.
 

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blackmondy

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Everyone talks as if if Olympus dies, all your m43 cameras will stop working, as if they are controlled by a central server.
I'm happy if people dump their m43 cameras. That means more dirt cheap m43 cameras to play with.
 

Blu-By-U

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It would be really funny that Panny goes APS-C. The 2 formats are rather close. Why dump everything they have created and start again in APS-C?

Just because Oly is selling the imaging line, it does not mean the end of the consortium. Why do you keep harping on it? Or are you hoping for a mass exodus to pick cheap stuff? It's not happening. Even with the discontinuation of the fourthird line, there are still people looking to the bodies and lenses.

If you really into cheap discontinued stuff, try looking at Casio and Samsung. you might find some cheap stuff there.
 

ricohflex

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"The 2 formats are rather close". Actually previously I did think of it just like you. But the REAL world has proven that this situation works.
The big manufacturers Pentax (APS-C + Full Frame + Medium format) + Leica (APS-C + Full Frame + Medium format) + Nikon, Canon, Sony (APS-C and Full Frame) seem to think differently from you. Maybe you know better than them. They have APS-C and Full Frame product lines.

In fact the APS-C Canon M50 (maybe Mk2 soon?) + M6 (now Mk2 and soon Mk3) are BIG money spinners for Canon.
Much more revenue than their top Full Frame models.

This is the Cash Cow. This is the Goose that Laid the Golden Eggs.
For now in 2020. Consumer preferences may change in future.

While R5 and R6 challenge rivals on the Full Frame format.

Quote dated 13 Aug 2020 from digitalcameraworld.com { Canon's 45.4% market share is greater than Sony, Nikon and Fuji's combined. Canon is still the undisputed champion of the camera industry, with a huge 45.4% share of the global camera market – which is greater than the shares of Sony, Nikon and Fujifilm combined.} UnQuote

The statistic is obviously from 2019 annual data because we are now still in Aug 2020.

The figure for Panasonic is 4.7% which is very bad. They better abandon MFT and change the direction of the ship before it crashes into the iceberg.

Olympus MFT market share in recent years was a miserable 2%.
In a Covid1-9 affected pandemic world, Olympus MFT market share may be 0.1% market share in 2020 if the company camera division had not kaput in mid-2019.

That is how bad it is for MFT.

The numbers prove it.
Despite what we want to imagine or believe.
 

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JW73

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"The 2 formats are rather close". Actually previously I did think of it just like you. But the REAL world has proven that this situation works.
The big manufacturers Pentax (APS-C + Full Frame + Medium format) + Leica (APS-C + Full Frame + Medium format) + Nikon, Canon, Sony (APS-C and Full Frame) seem to think differently from you. Maybe you know better than them. They have APS-C and Full Frame product lines.

In fact the APS-C Canon M50 (maybe Mk2 soon?) + M6 (now Mk2 and soon Mk3) are BIG money spinners for Canon.
Much more revenue than their top Full Frame models.

This is the Cash Cow. This is the Goose that Laid the Golden Eggs.
For now in 2020. Consumer preferences may change in future.

While R5 and R6 challenge rivals on the Full Frame format.

Quote dated 13 Aug 2020 from digitalcameraworld.com { Canon's 45.4% market share is greater than Sony, Nikon and Fuji's combined. Canon is still the undisputed champion of the camera industry, with a huge 45.4% share of the global camera market – which is greater than the shares of Sony, Nikon and Fujifilm combined.} UnQuote

The statistic is obviously from 2019 annual data because we are now still in Aug 2020.

The figure for Panasonic is 4.7% which is very bad. They better abandon MFT and change the direction of the ship before it crashes into the iceberg.

Olympus MFT market share in recent years was a miserable 2%.
In a Covid1-9 affected pandemic world, Olympus MFT market share may be 0.1% market share in 2020 if the company camera division had not kaput in mid-2019.

That is how bad it is for MFT.

The numbers prove it.
Despite what we want to imagine or believe.
The topic here is why we keep m43 equipment , not why we need to abandon m43 equipment. Get a Life.
 

Blu-By-U

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Agree with JW73. There is no need for you to keep condemning the system. Just go get yourself the Canon or whatever, leave us here to enjoy the mft. I don't need to read your views. I have enough of it.
 

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swifty

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It would be really funny that Panny goes APS-C. The 2 formats are rather close. Why dump everything they have created and start again in APS-C?

Just because Oly is selling the imaging line, it does not mean the end of the consortium. Why do you keep harping on it? Or are you hoping for a mass exodus to pick cheap stuff? It's not happening. Even with the discontinuation of the fourthird line, there are still people looking to the bodies and lenses.

If you really into cheap discontinued stuff, try looking at Casio and Samsung. you might find some cheap stuff there.
I think Panasonic are in a tricky position because they've (along with Olympus) have worked so hard to build a full and excellent m43 system.
But the reason that Panasonic may eventually adopt APS-C in L mount is that their L-mount partners uses that format. Leica already have L-mount APS-C cameras and lenses whilst Sigma already have APS-C lenses as well as APS-C Fovean sensors ready to go if they want to bring out an APS-C L-mount camera.
But abandoning the m43 seems like an even sillier thing to do with the well established and mature ecosystem so I don't think they'll go anywhere unless market shrinkage forces their hand.

So even if they do APS-C L-mount, I can see them making a twin L-mount/m43-mount camera with identical specs including the use of the same APS-C sensor, just differing in mount. The m43-mount one can then use the APS-C sensor in multi-aspect ratio mode and maximise the full image circle of m43. It'd be the ultimate multi-format ratio camera for m43 and I'd buy that to replace my G9 if they bring it out.

Going forward if Panasonic can source 2 sensors, a high MP m43 sized one to maintain m43's pixel density advantage, and an APS-C one >28MP for multi-aspect ratio shooting, that'd keep their m43 lineup very attractive IMO. Both those sensors already exists btw.

Another option is to bring out native m43 <-> L adapters.
 

Blu-By-U

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Swifty, you have to remember that Panny is also a sensor manufacturer. So anything can happen. How far back is the current Panny S1? If it's forward enough (like the 4/3) they could add an adapter for the mft to use the FF lenses but not the other way around. I doubt the mft light circle is big enough for the FF sensor.

P.S. Just read this Nikon Guy going mirrorless
Where do you think he is moving to?
 

Castor Troy

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The topic here is why we keep m43 equipment , not why we need to abandon m43 equipment. Get a Life.
Because you always need to have the view from both sides.
Or was it supposed to be a delusional Fanboy thread?
 

swifty

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Swifty, you have to remember that Panny is also a sensor manufacturer. So anything can happen. How far back is the current Panny S1? If it's forward enough (like the 4/3) they could add an adapter for the mft to use the FF lenses but not the other way around. I doubt the mft light circle is big enough for the FF sensor.

P.S. Just read this Nikon Guy going mirrorless
Where do you think he is moving to?
Hi Blu By-U, unfortunately Panasonic has divested their sensor business already. Their remaining JV with TowerJazz (TPSCo) has been sold off although I can't remember whether the deal is completed though.

The L-mount's flange back distance is longer than the m43 mount by 0.75mm, but the throat diameter is significantly larger so the entire m43 lens mount can fit inside the L-mount. It's not an easy adapter to make but a m43 lens to L-mount adapter is at least theoretically possible.
It'd actually be impossible the other way around, meaning an L-mount lens to m43 mount adapter because a 0.75mm thickness adapter on the outside would just be impossible.

M43 lenses are only guaranteed up to the m43 image circle (some may be larger but don't count on it). When used on a larger sensor such as APS-C or FF you're certain to get (severe) vignetting if you're using the whole sensor. The point of multiaspect ratio sensors is you crop in from an oversized sensor in any ratio up to whatever the m43 image circle allows. If you're not familiar with the concept have a look at cameras such as the GH2.
Normally when we want a different aspect ratio, we'd have to crop in from the m43 sensor so we'd use an even smaller sensor area for our capture. When cropping in from a larger sensor, you'd maintain the maximum image diagonal of 21.6mm in any aspect ratio.
Eg. If you use an APS-C sensor, you can crop any landscape ratio up to 1:1 and still maximise the 21.6mm diameter of the m43 circle.
If you use a FF, you can crop any landscape or portrait ratio meaning there'd be no need to turn the camera at all.
I agree you wouldn't use a FF sensor just for this ability, but it has been suggested it's easier and cheaper to source APS-C sensors than m43 sensors so this additional ability to crop to any ratio seems like good added bonus.

Yea I read somewhere that Matt Granger has sold off his Nikon DSLR gear. TBH I rarely watch youtubers so I really wouldn't know but their business model is somewhat tied to generating drama so ppl would watch their channels. It could be any of Canikony I think, maybe Canon just cos they have a bit of momentum atm and are in a rapid growth stage with probably lots of gear to review in the medium term vs a more matured Sony system and a slower Nikon system.
 

JW73

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Because you always need to have the view from both sides.
Or was it supposed to be a delusional Fanboy thread?
Pls start a new thread on correct topic. U are most welcome to give views. People click the thread base on the topic and its down right rude to see the discussion going out of topic. If u want to discuss why we should abandon m43 pls start a new thread. Basic manner.
Pls read the very 1st post of the thread b4 commenting. I just wanna stay relevant to the thread starter.

Start a bashing thread..I will kindly contribute my part
 

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ricohflex

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"If you are a non-believer of M43, your feedback is still welcomed "

If the idea is to have a closed loop mentality and only listen to one point of view, then that is precisely why Olympus Camera Division failed so miserably.
This is not bashing.
This is presenting to readers the historical facts of the market share which is documented.

The thread is:
"why-olympus-or-m43-users-should-keep-their-gear"

The view expressed is that it being a small market share format, and with one of two big manufacturers giving up, chances are the value of MFT equipment will fall steeply in resale value over time. That one should be aware of that.
Of course, if the owner does not need the money, then resale is a moot point.
Otherwise, need to reconsider in order to recoup monetary losses.