Which is better for long exposure shot?


sin77

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#1
As we know lens perform best between f4.0 to f8.0. However for long exposure, we need to shoot at f22 or use at least 3 stops ND filter. So my question is, which one produces better image quality as well as sharpness?
 

sin77

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How to determine good quality? Those hoya can? Or must get b+w?
 

edutilos-

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#4
How to determine good quality? Those hoya can? Or must get b+w?
Hoya is fine, B+W is also fine. To my knowledge, Hoya makes ND400, which is about 8 or 9 stops (do the math yourself). B+W has ND106 (6 stops) and ND110 (10 stops). The two are comparable but not exactly the same. I think the price difference is not that great. I've used all 3 and they all have warming issues (natural, due to IR leakage. The less strong ND filters have a lesser problem, naturally) which are easily corrected if you shoot in RAW. These are all screw-in filters.

There is also Lee Big Stopper, which you can consider if you are willing to fork out money for the whole filter system. The benefit of using a slot system is that you can stack ND and GND easily (assuming you buy the appropriate size). Also, you can pull out the filter holder easily for recomposing via viewfinder. With Live View these days, the screw-in system isn't that bad in comparison but when it gets dark Live View can only boost the image so much. By the way, the Lee Big Stopper cools down the image deliberately... Also correctable in post.

I myself use ND106 and ND110 and blend different exposures in post-processing. Hope this helps.
 

kklee

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#5
As we know lens perform best between f4.0 to f8.0. However for long exposure, we need to shoot at f22 or use at least 3 stops ND filter. So my question is, which one produces better image quality as well as sharpness?
I had ask myself the same questions. When I take into consideration of sharpness, vignetting and especially diffraction, I would use f/8 and a good ND filter.
I would think ND filters affect longer focal length ( > 200mm ) as I had come across those images.
 

Octarine

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#6
As we know lens perform best between f4.0 to f8.0. However for long exposure, we need to shoot at f22 or use at least 3 stops ND filter. So my question is, which one produces better image quality as well as sharpness?
Shooting at f/22 on crop will cause blur images due to diffraction on the small aperture. For crop, use f/16 at most.
 

sin77

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#7
I was thinking f8 only. So it seems I should get 3 stops nd. Hope it's enough. Otherwise hard to compose.
 

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#8
Is there like an ideal duration for LE shots? Of course diff situations will require diff settings, but is there a general guideline for a typical LE scene, like night sceneries with or without city lights, smoothing out river flow, getting those dramatic clouds etc... not interested in super long LE like star trail etc... given iso 100 and f8-11, what would b a gd shutter speed to experiment with for decent exposure, which may equate to what kinda ND I should get...
 

coolthought

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#9
silvermoon1407 said:
Is there like an ideal duration for LE shots? Of course diff situations will require diff settings, but is there a general guideline for a typical LE scene, like night sceneries with or without city lights, smoothing out river flow, getting those dramatic clouds etc... not interested in super long LE like star trail etc... given iso 100 and f8-11, what would b a gd shutter speed to experiment with for decent exposure, which may equate to what kinda ND I should get...
I have tried LE from 1sec to more than 10 minutes. For smoothing water surface, my most common duration are between 30sec to 3min. Probably having a 3, 6 and 9 (or 10) stop ND filter will cover most of your needs.
 

catchlights

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#10
the length of exposure time is depends on the movement of the water, ambient light and effects you want,
so you don't just get one piece of ND filter if you only want to shoot at certain f-stop.
 

ellery

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#11
I would suggest running a test to see how bad the soften due to defraction is at F22, F16, & F8. Why ? each lens has a different behavior pattern it is not the same for all example a 24, 50, 85, 105 or 180 will not return identical results. Use the lens you plan to work with understand it's quirks. Yah it is good to look at images for a magnification point other than 200% or 100% try print size try 50% more than print size.
 

edutilos-

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#13
I would suggest running a test to see how bad the soften due to defraction is at F22, F16, & F8. Why ? each lens has a different behavior pattern it is not the same for all example a 24, 50, 85, 105 or 180 will not return identical results. Use the lens you plan to work with understand it's quirks. Yah it is good to look at images for a magnification point other than 200% or 100% try print size try 50% more than print size.
Yes, that's true. Also differenet people have different expectations of sharpness.

I for one, care less about sharpness, more about the effect. I'm sure as hell not going to care about diffraction if I can't get the length of exposure I want. If it's too short, it's too short. I'd rather stop down than overexpose.

Of course, for Pentax DSLRs there is multi-exposure function which helps with overcoming this, but there are also limitations to that too.
 

hjbyeo

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May 5, 2006
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#14
As we know lens perform best between f4.0 to f8.0. However for long exposure, we need to shoot at f22 or use at least 3 stops ND filter. So my question is, which one produces better image quality as well as sharpness?
How to determine good quality? Those hoya can? Or must get b+w?
I was thinking f8 only. So it seems I should get 3 stops nd. Hope it's enough. Otherwise hard to compose.
Stacking filters may affect IQ, but if you see all the examples in the Landscape sub-forums, from edutilos, scint, shiosaki, wonglp, as an indication if it really affects the IQ that much. I really think it's minimal if it's just 1 ND filter, esp. if you are just sharing on the pictures on the web.

Drop-in filter systems are quite expensive, especially Lee, but they do offer the convenience of taking the drop in filters out, and recomposing shots. But for me, screw in filters, typically cheaper, will work. It's sometimes just a tweak of your process of taking a shot will be sufficient. Just mount on tripod, compose properly first, then screw the ND filter in. Don't be in such a hurry to screw them in. ;-)
 

edutilos-

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#15
Drop-in filter systems are quite expensive, especially Lee, but they do offer the convenience of taking the drop in filters out, and recomposing shots. But for me, screw in filters, typically cheaper, will work. It's sometimes just a tweak of your process of taking a shot will be sufficient. Just mount on tripod, compose properly first, then screw the ND filter in. Don't be in such a hurry to screw them in. ;-)
The more modern implementations of Live View also usually allow one to compose even with screw-in filter on... Until it gets too dark anyways. :bsmilie:
 

hjbyeo

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#16
edutilos- said:
The more modern implementations of Live View also usually allow one to compose even with screw-in filter on... Until it gets too dark anyways. :bsmilie:
That's how I use the K-01!
 

bruggink

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#17
Best to get the necessary filters and I dont remember the screw-in ones (even if it is B+W ND110) will cost you a bomb. A screw-in filter, a tripod, a pair of steady hands and practice are all you need for long exposure shots.
 

Jul 19, 2010
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#18
hmm, i was wondering will i get different images if i shoot with my f/32 vs a 10stop on f22?
anyone has any views to share? thks.
 

catchlights

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#20
hmm, i was wondering will i get different images if i shoot with my f/32 vs a 10stop on f22?
anyone has any views to share? thks.
From f22 to f32, is 1 stop defferent.
If you add a 10stop ND filter, you need extend the exposure time by 9 stops.

The results largely depend on what you are shooting.
 

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