Where is our standard?


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lauLEE

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#1
Recently we have some ppl who attached their images in the Galleries in Clubsnap. I am sure many of us look forward to these images to improve our own standard thru other ppl comments, advices, criticisms, etc. As such, the more images ppl posted, the better it is for the rest of us.
However the problem i (personal opinion) see is that many of these images are of sub-standard or at most average snapshots. These "sub-standard" images will have serious consequences to the whole Clubsnap website in the long run.
Many photog are attracted to this site for many reasons. One of the attractions is to be able to view top-quality images by some of the very good CS photogs. In turn these "first-class" images will attract even many oversea photogs who will attached their keepers for us to learn from them as well as to make our CS more popular regionally if not globally. CS is facing "competitions" with other sites in Malaysia, HK, indonesia, etc. If we are unable to keep a certain standard, good photog will stay away from our site, bringing along their quality shots to other sites.
Being a newbie myself, I used to frequent CS but of late I notice that there are so many sub-standard images that I began to frequent other sites, such as the one in HK where the images are really eye-catching. I would like to suggest that ppl should not attach images in the Galleries unless they feel strongly that the pics have unique strength and can allow newbies or other photog to learn sth from them. Especially for newbies who need encouragements/comments, maybe post them in the Newbies or Kopitiam corners.
No flamings plse, i m for improving everyone skills!
 

#2
wow... what a personal insight.

i just thought that everyone's tastes and expectations differ and it is really hard to draw a clear line on what constitutes a high standard or maybe sub-standard photograph. likewise, art is subjective.

if it is in the best interest of the person who posted his/her images in this forum to seek honest opinion and ways to improve, then i believe more likely than not, that person will get some very good suggestions. thus, i really see no good reason to make this forum an elite one, whereby only the top pros and the really veteran photographers frequent.

i always think and believe that clubsnap is a forum for every photography enthusiasts. and that it is a photographic community which impart specific photographic knowledge and experiences to a wider appreciative audience and viewers. like-minded enthusiasts can perhaps find friends and share common interests, besides viewing of 'top-class' imageries.

if there's a problem with newbies and amateurs from posting their photographs for critique and suggestions, then surely, there's a problem with the emphasis and the aim of this forum itself. which, thankfully, is not headed into the so-called 'elite' photography forum.

thus, to conclude, clubsnap is not a forum for the elite but a friendly and approachable forum for the masses. i hope that newbies and amateurs like myself will not be put off with negativity and respond with renewed enthuaism and spirit in what is our common interest and love.
 

clive

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#3
what standard?

if u like ur pictures then they r gd

no need 2b so complicated :)
 

togu

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#4
Cheesecake said:
wow... what a personal insight.

i just thought that everyone's tastes and expectations differ and it is really hard to draw a clear line on what constitutes a high standard or maybe sub-standard photograph. likewise, art is subjective.

if it is in the best interest of the person who posted his/her images in this forum to seek honest opinion and ways to improve, then i believe more likely than not, that person will get some very good suggestions. thus, i really see no good reason to make this forum an elite one, whereby only the top pros and the really veteran photographers frequent.

i always think and believe that clubsnap is a forum for every photography enthusiasts. and that it is a photographic community which impart specific photographic knowledge and experiences to a wider appreciative audience and viewers. like-minded enthusiasts can perhaps find friends and share common interests, besides viewing of 'top-class' imageries.

if there's a problem with newbies and amateurs from posting their photographs for critique and suggestions, then surely, there's a problem with the emphasis and the aim of this forum itself. which, thankfully, is not headed into the so-called 'elite' photography forum.

thus, to conclude, clubsnap is not a forum for the elite but a friendly and approachable forum for the masses. i hope that newbies and amateurs like myself will not be put off with negativity and respond with renewed enthuaism and spirit in what is our common interest and love.
* togu clap clap clap... BRAVO!

:vhappy:
 

Falcon

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#5
It is very difficult to guage whether a shot is gd or not esp. for a newbie(like myself :) ) As a result, they may post shots that others deem as snapshots or substandard work. To make matter worse, those that are more "pro" refuse to post comments to help the newbies. So how are the "newbies" supposed to know/learn when they got 0 comments for their posts.
 

pcwe68

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Wow, that means I have to look for a "Clubsnap amateur" website to post my "snapshot" so that others can comment, then if I improved to the pro standard (which don't even know when?) then maybe can join Clubsnap again. :cry:

Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee.................

what snobbish attitude is that man, I will join a forum that will give constructive criticism to anyone irregardless of their skill. I want a site that aims to improve the skill of all photographers, whether pro or amateur. Not one that just accept the "PRO".


But......... sometimes clubsnap threads tends to degenerate into personal argument (of course also happens to other forum), which I feel the moderator should quickly step in to close the thread. This of thread does not benefit anyone.
 

espn

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#7
Which is why I removed my portrait shots from Darren's thread, after seeing the pros' shots, I got intimidated.

I'll refrain from posting until mine is deemed 'got standard' :) Any mod want to help me vet my shots before allowing me to post? :)
 

blurblock

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#8
lauLEE said:
Recently we have some ppl who attached their images in the Galleries in Clubsnap. I am sure many of us look forward to these images to improve our own standard thru other ppl comments, advices, criticisms, etc. As such, the more images ppl posted, the better it is for the rest of us.
However the problem i (personal opinion) see is that many of these images are of sub-standard or at most average snapshots. These "sub-standard" images will have serious consequences to the whole Clubsnap website in the long run.
Many photog are attracted to this site for many reasons. One of the attractions is to be able to view top-quality images by some of the very good CS photogs. In turn these "first-class" images will attract even many oversea photogs who will attached their keepers for us to learn from them as well as to make our CS more popular regionally if not globally. CS is facing "competitions" with other sites in Malaysia, HK, indonesia, etc. If we are unable to keep a certain standard, good photog will stay away from our site, bringing along their quality shots to other sites.
Being a newbie myself, I used to frequent CS but of late I notice that there are so many sub-standard images that I began to frequent other sites, such as the one in HK where the images are really eye-catching. I would like to suggest that ppl should not attach images in the Galleries unless they feel strongly that the pics have unique strength and can allow newbies or other photog to learn sth from them. Especially for newbies who need encouragements/comments, maybe post them in the Newbies or Kopitiam corners.
No flamings plse, i m for improving everyone skills!
You forgot the other reason, and it is to help nature new and bubbling photographer, to improve their skills to capture more joy in photography. Not all photographers can end up rich and famous. But all photographers can end up fulfilled with their accomprisment. Good or bad pics, it is still their work and they will like people to comment on it.

This is not a professional only website. It is precisely of our interests and the urge to improve which prompt us to be here. Posting "sub-standard" picture can invite advise from professionals and advanced amatuers. What better way to improve then to post and learn?

If you are that good, I suggest you start a "Professional Only" website which pictures are screened by international panel of highly paid judges. Your comment does not "Improve" everyone skills but smell of the "elite only" bs which will not only not improve everyone's skill but limit "beauty" in a fixed frame, the frame which you think is classified as "professional".
 

Darren

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#9
Before anyone gets the wrong idea, we wish to reiterate and inform those who may not have known, that ClubSNAP is meant for all photographers, be they amateurs, semi-pro, hobbyists or professionals.

ClubSNAP is meant as a place for all to share and learn.
 

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#10
Aiyo here we go again......

This thread which just started by laulee is going to see plenty of different opinions and flaming. Some CS members are still learning how to even compose and hold a camera, let alone posting HQ (high quality) pix.

Actually in photography there is no right or wrong. It all depends on the person's point of view. I have seen plenty of HQ pix in other forums but I think we are still in the learning stage. So it's good that we view other websites to learn as well.

Instead of browsing at other websites and comparing with CS, we should post more pix whether pro or amatuer for others to share. This is where we start to learn and improve our skills. Unless of course nobody is willing to share and comment.

Those who have posted "no standard" pix ought to give them plenty of encouragement as they dare to show what their standard is. Nothing to hide. I think the "PROs" are still learning although they have 15-30 years experience.

When someone post a pix, I think we should read the comments carefully before posting or quoting back at the person. And for those who posted the pictures should be humble and accept opinions from others, whether they are Pros or amatuers.

I think if any person who post their pix and ask for opinion should accept gracefully and learn. Not questioning about their ability to give comments. Just accept it. If the person who post the pix cannot accept comments, especially the "bad comments" and only wants to listen to beautiful ones, then they should not post and ask for comments as they would not be learning.

So I guess the thread starter may have created a flaming thread here. So MODs please warn those who do not understand. To the thread starter maybe you should elaborate further what you are trying to tell us. MODs may want to ask why the thread starter started this.

There are some people (not talking about you laulee) looking for opportunity to created flaming threads. This is bad as there are plenty of people with different opinions. So guys and gals, I hope this does not turn out badly as we just started a new year!

Thank you.
 

Azure

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#11
Darren said:
Before anyone gets the wrong idea, we wish to reiterate and inform those who may not have known, that ClubSNAP is meant for all photographers, be they amateurs, semi-pro, hobbyists or professionals.

ClubSNAP is meant as a place for all to share and learn.
:thumbsup:
This is good to hear. Thank you Darren.
For the last couple of months I've been getting the impression that it was becoming pro-Pro + pro-equipment and less friendly to enthusiasts. :sweat:

Anyway, I've since stuck to my little AG outings, where fortunately everyone there has been the hobby-enthusiast-amateur-"for fun" types. That was despite some flak I received.

To put things in perspective - it takes all sorts to make a forum like CS. But if you feel strongly toward a particular direction, do something about it. Start your own little interest sub-group or something. Organise something (eg Nikon newbies, outings, talks, courses, whatever). Crying about it, complaining about it, isn't going to change anything, most certainly not how you will continue to feel.

To misquote Yoda a bit "... Do. Or do not. There is no cry." :p
 

KNIGHT ONG

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Dec 18, 2003
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#12
Darren said:
Before anyone gets the wrong idea, we wish to reiterate and inform those who may not have known, that ClubSNAP is meant for all photographers, be they amateurs, semi-pro, hobbyists or professionals.

ClubSNAP is meant as a place for all to share and learn.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I am a newbie to this website and really felt wonderful that this forum is a place for all to learn and re-learn our old tricks.

:embrass: This years is my twenty years into photography and got only a few years of experience in digital images, still learning and find hard to catch up .... bcos finds that conventional got it's advantages and there are many things needs to take care for digital images. I started learning the hard ways and spend a lots in developing photos in my early days, be they good or bad we still can learns and enjoys the joys of photography.

It's a new year, let's yam seng to better photography .... OK ;)
 

madmacs

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#14
lauLEE said:
Recently we have some ppl who attached their images in the Galleries in Clubsnap. I am sure many of us look forward to these images to improve our own standard thru other ppl comments, advices, criticisms, etc. As such, the more images ppl posted, the better it is for the rest of us.
However the problem i (personal opinion) see is that many of these images are of sub-standard or at most average snapshots. These "sub-standard" images will have serious consequences to the whole Clubsnap website in the long run.
Many photog are attracted to this site for many reasons. One of the attractions is to be able to view top-quality images by some of the very good CS photogs. In turn these "first-class" images will attract even many oversea photogs who will attached their keepers for us to learn from them as well as to make our CS more popular regionally if not globally. CS is facing "competitions" with other sites in Malaysia, HK, indonesia, etc. If we are unable to keep a certain standard, good photog will stay away from our site, bringing along their quality shots to other sites.
Being a newbie myself, I used to frequent CS but of late I notice that there are so many sub-standard images that I began to frequent other sites, such as the one in HK where the images are really eye-catching. I would like to suggest that ppl should not attach images in the Galleries unless they feel strongly that the pics have unique strength and can allow newbies or other photog to learn sth from them. Especially for newbies who need encouragements/comments, maybe post them in the Newbies or Kopitiam corners.
No flamings plse, i m for improving everyone skills!
in that case you better stick to the hk site lest the rest of us affect the quality of your photography.

laulee, dont forget you were once a novice. give the beginners a break. give advice and constructive criticisms, but dont ask them to go away or not post them attempts...please.
 

espn

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#15
Azure said:
Anyway, I've since stuck to my little AG outings, where fortunately everyone there has been the hobby-enthusiast-amateur-"for fun" types. That was despite some flak I received.
Come on... tell us who.. we'll flatten him/her during the next AG :D
 

lauLEE

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#16
i apologise to all if you have felt being offended by my comments. frankly i am always inspired by some of the regulars here, such as SniperD, Wolfgang, iamasaint, Harlequin, sehsuan, megaweb, Azure, meng kuang, sulhan to name just a few. One can always learn sth from their images. Even "ordinary" day-to-day images from many of the CS (esp all those from the inspiriing Streetshooters and teL) can teach us many things such as lighting, composition, humour, quality etc.

How many of us really look forward to see such images or feel that we can learn anything from these? (Apologise to the photog, dont mean to be personal, sorry):
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=55895
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=57059

These, we should see more:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=55738
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=57093
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=56674

I rest my case and Happy New Year... cheers!
 

blurblock

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#17
Don't see anything wrong with those you say is wrong .... we are all trying to learn here .... look .... for the Mee rebus case, chance are next time when he take mee rebus, he will remember the mee ...... If he did not put that on, maybe he will never take the mee forever .... some other bubbling photographer might not know too .... So it is a good lesson there.

If you still think CS should limit people putting up their pics ..... I think you might be more suitable going to Website with all the art galleries then start drooling and aspire to be like them. For the rest of commoner like us, I guess we should learn through the hard way, from other people pointing out our mistake and try to keep clear of the mistakes next time.
 

espn

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#18
Just because you don't learn anything, doesn't mean that others don't. And if you feel you don't learn anything, maybe you can SHARE something with the thread starter.

Let's see you post some :)

I tried to find some of yours.. but all I see are threads in Kopitiam, Buy/Sell, Consumer Corner, Canon with a large portion of replies/threads started in Kopitiam.

Before one calls the kettle black... maybe one should reflect on his own standard too. How'd you expect a newbie to learn when an oldbie doesn't teach? :)
 

pcwe68

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#19
I see nothing wrong with the mee rebus post, in fact its a very good learning thread. A lot of us who are inexperience, when we see something good, we just want to capture it the way we see it and thinking that we have capture a good photo, without realising that we may have missed the crucial bit (in this case, the mee).

as for your second post, it is agreeable that there are a lot of snapshot photo in it, but instead of asking that person not to post (so that he won't make clubsnap to become sub-snap), we should be asking him to give a caption for each photo or ask him to explain what he is trying to capture then base on that to advise him on what to do next time. even telling him that only one or two of the photos are good while the rest are really snapshots, may help him to think about why some are consider good while others are not. INSTEAD OF TELLING HIM DON'T POST-what can he learn from this don't post thing? PLEASE HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND.

A lot of time, we are blind to ourselve, because we will think that it is good because we capture it (its the fruit of our labour), that's why we need others to give constructive advice.

In fact, there are those shy ones that try to ask without posting, at the end of it, everyone also ask the poster to put up a photo, otherwise how to advice.

I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND? WHAT IS PHOTOGRAPHY WITHOUT PHOTO.
 

#20
lauLEE said:
i apologise to all if you have felt being offended by my comments. frankly i am always inspired by some of the regulars here, such as SniperD, Wolfgang, iamasaint, Harlequin, sehsuan, megaweb, Azure, meng kuang, sulhan to name just a few. One can always learn sth from their images. Even "ordinary" day-to-day images from many of the CS (esp all those from the inspiriing Streetshooters and teL) can teach us many things such as lighting, composition, humour, quality etc.

How many of us really look forward to see such images or feel that we can learn anything from these? (Apologise to the photog, dont mean to be personal, sorry):
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=55895
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=57059

These, we should see more:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=55738
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=57093
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=56674

I rest my case and Happy New Year... cheers!
i think u're missing the point.

the ball-carrying part, cuts no ice with me. those people u casually mentioned are seasoned photographers but they too, were once a beginner! yet, they don't question the aim and directive of clubsnap or raise awareness that it should be, a 'higher-level' photography forum.

the main crux of it all is that, clubsnap, is for everyone and not only to the 'elite' and the best or advanced photographers.

everyone in this sense, means, u, me, they and everyone else.

so long as u share a common interest and love for photography, u're free to join and interact with the many experienced and high profile photographers in this forum. irregardless of ur photographic standard, if any at all. but then again, that is subject to them replying and answering ur queries.

how can we say that these people who posted those images are not learning anything? they might not yet develop the eye for details or the eye for better composition, but don't we all began at some stage?

i guess we should all be more tolerant to newbies and amateurs and welcome them into this large community with open arms. offer genuine suggestions and ideas and guide fellow enthuasists along.

at least they show the eagerness to get their works critiqued and appreciated. all in the hope of a fair critique and a chance to improve their photographic skills. and maybe, just maybe, perhaps one day, to join these so-called 'elite' class of photographers.

so if u're thinking of putting other people down with some mindless and tactless thread and even goin as far as to turn this forum into an 'elitist' photographers' forum(perhaps like the Singapore society now), please look elsewhere. i guess clubsnap can do better than that.
 

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