When does it tantamount to forum "stirring"?

[surrephoto]

Hi all...

Guess most would know that i'm not the nicest person on CS and tend to like to "stir" stuff especially when it comes to camera problems.

However a recent incident on organised shoots threads resulted in a huge hoohah. Essentially the "stirrer" said he only sharing his comments and did honestly state that "it may not be welcome" but there was aggressive response to defend the victims.

I too was irritated by him and wrote some things to shoot him too. Now I'm re-thinking my actions. If a "stirrer" like me goes to nikon or canon sub-forums and complains about i.e. service, auto-focus etc... it may be honest facts so when exactly to classify as true "stirring"?

And for the case of the organised shoots thread, am I right to say it is simply not too nice to go infront of a chicken rice stall and tell the customers "this kuay perng sibeh pai jiak". Agree?

 

[LukaviZ]

I have just read the thread and would like to post (damn rare that I do, but only because I feel I have to voice out my 2cents worth) my views about it.

First and foremost, in reference to the xxxxxx## (you would know if you read the thread) individual, it's a paid shoot. You wanna go, you pay, and go. You don't wanna go, then GTFO and don't waste your breath creating a hoo-haa about it. Unless you're taking inspiration from the individuals responsible for the recent 'NS-matters' comments, wanting your fifteen minutes of fame. Willing seller, willing buyers. You don't like it's your problem. There will be a market for it still.

In reference to newbies being able to take fantastic pictures if they go to a well-planned and well set up shoot with a well set up shot. Sure. You feel it's a good thing that newbies are spoon-fed and given 'opportunities' to take great shots, and then be lead into disillusion that they're fantastic photographers able to take great shots, leading into complacency, which *might* lead into them attempting to offer to charge for wedding photography. End of the day, it's a downward spiral. Sure it's a challenge sometimes to take a picture of something very normal and aiming to get the best angle for it, but we learn that way, don't we...? It's a learning process thing. You get spoonfed, you'll be happy now because it's so darn easy. but when the trials come, you get stuck, and sometimes screwed.

As for stirring, in response to TS, so long as things don't get personal, it's ok. Ultimately everyone has a choice, whether to shoot this model or not to shoot this model, whether to use C or use N, whether to use this lens or that lens, it's a choice we all have. U can raise matters of certain aspects of a camera (inanimate object) , but don't let your personal experience be the 'word' that you expect people to adhere to. it's all about personal choices.

 

[foxtwo]

You should initiate a positive discussion by offering constructive criticism and alternative solutions.

You should not embark on a personal crusade to diss or thrash someone(s), whilst believing to be stating "honest facts" & "personal feedback".


Since all of us have personal opinions about any matters, I do not support a case of "Not Talking about It". I highly support a case of how to go about Talking properly.

Anytime we feel strongly about a debatable matter and feel the need to brooch the subject publicly, please draft your intent then look through it carefully and think whether you have phrased it as a discussion or a statement. The former is preferable as it promotes interaction and an exchange of ideas. The latter if you really love the sound of your own mind, people agreeing with you and spending the rest of the time defending your words as the thread spirals between OT and fierce arguments. It never occurs to you that the cause was lost just by how the content was delivered.

"A discursive essay is an informal essay about a controversial topic. The writer of a discursive essay attempts to present both sides, while showing why he favors one side over the other. Discursive writing is a good way to learn how to structure an argument logically and anticipate and counter the arguments of the other side. These fundamentals are essential for a good essay

Read more: How to Write a Discursive Essay | eHow.com How to Write a Discursive Essay | eHow.com"​

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[crazyson]

. Essentially the "stirrer" said he only sharing his comments and did honestly state that "it may not be welcome" but there was aggressive response to defend the victims.

the phrase 'it may not be welcome' doesnt equate to a get-out-of-jail free card. he is entitled to his opinion, but he obviously already foresaw the reaction and yet he still posted.


if we all said what was on our mind all the time, the world would be in chaos. we should always consider the consequences for all our actions and words

 

[Zichar]

Man that's too much work foxtwo!

But agreed, in an ideal mature forum, we'd do our little bit of thinking before we post; not unlike what we do at work imho - ideas get shot down if we don't back it up with concrete proposals, solutions, anticipation of the other side's arguments/views and how to counter propose. Yet such is life... gets in the way of the ideal

I think the 'stirrer' (are we not allowed to use his handle because it's pretty obvious as the thread is still up?) has a point but can perhaps elaborate on how he'd make it better? Certainly doable? Does her look really detract from the theme?
I missed out on the thread (not amongst the subfora that I visit) but your reply (foxtwo) got me thinking. If I wanted to play up her strengths how would I do it?

Some form of shotgun wedding? Angry elderly parents, quivering young man showing up at the door and his uncertain (or over-enthusiastic?) cutesy 18yo bride + baby bump too if possible. In an older setting, one of those conservation-era flats: scissor-pull grille gates, white and green mosaic tiles, peel off chinese calender, 7-up tinted windows

Or simply running away from it all, too young to get married, I don't wanna, this life is for me, my dreams, on the street, wedding dress hitched up, garters showing, heels broken, flying? happy with freedom, or frustrated with rivulets beginning of mascara, blurred out wedding car in the background, or guests arms akimbo and some held up in the air
Endless possiblities?

 

[sinned79]

All i can say is u guys are too stiff and if you think this and that and cannot voice out what you think. I say, being human is difficult. I am not a hypocrite who even though inside thinks about something but say/do another thing. To me, nice is nice, ugly is ugly, dun need to beat ard the bush.

If you know me outside in real life, I am an exact replica like I am on a forum (I am not a cyber warrior), I am straight (this oftens offends people) and some friends like me for that cos I am honest and say what I feel instead of hide here and there.

Perhaps you guys read the wrong way and thought I am being malicious, but seriously I am not. I can be worst than that if I want to if I really needs to attack someone (especially those threads I attack seeking for cheapo photographers).

But compared to those responses to my comments, use your heart and think. Who is more furious and in "attack mode"? If you see the way I defend, I only strictly stick to my original opinion and never add spices and salt. Like someone commented about my client having shot gun, senior citizen. Gosh, you should be ashamed of yourself. While I only critic that the model is not suitable for the theme, I never say shes ugly. But the way you critic my clients, you are far worst.

And those who put words in my mouth that I never said. You know who you are. Also, those in chinese writing the word GAN. I am also a chinese and comeon, do you need to be so vulgar just cos of my comments?

To these people who react to my comments, do you need to go such lengths to retort back for an opinon? So who are the actual stirrers (the opinion I gave is to the organiser and the model but why other responses come in to defend which makes me reply more - is there a need to for you to do that, its just btw me, organiser and model in the first place - if not such responses come in, I would have stopped and wun bother to reply since I already voiced out and feel comfortable already)?

A true blue stirrer will just post and hide. Wun be so silly enough to keep posting to defend his point.

I am just glad I am unique to myself and true to my character, and not the same like those people who gave the responses.

Ok, enough said.

 

[Sion]

To these people who react to my comments, do you need to go such lengths to retort back for an opinon?

Not me. I'm too lazy to argue or even to write more than two lines.

Go and find Nightmare. :bsmilie:

 

[kei1309]

Not me. I'm too lazy to argue or even to write more than two lines.

Go and find Nightmare. :bsmilie:

nightmare is gone

there are only dreams now :bsmilie:

 

[Zichar]

But not everyone knows you in real life leh. And may not give you the same benefit of doubt as your friends might.
I would like to believe that those who frequent the forum are not malicious (myself, either naivete or a firm believer of Kantian philosophy lol)
I opine you shouldn't stop commenting either; hey it made me think and google more on the subject so that's definitely a positive!
Maybe for some areas, those for which others would feel strongly about, tread more cautiously, select words carefully?

Oh I just noticed that post, rats, I suggested a shotgun wedding diorama too, oops! :embrass:

 

[Sion]

nightmare is gone

there are only dreams now :bsmilie:

Kei is the New Nightmare now.

 

[Zichar]

Not me. I'm too lazy to argue or even to write more than two lines.

Go and find Nightmare. :bsmilie:

I think you express yourself better with images.... :devil:

 

[Sion]

I would like to believe that those who frequent the forum are not malicious......

I believe most of them maliciously look like this.

 

[sinned79]

i would like to ask a simple question to get off my mind. So in case someone say I never stop posting.

To those who retorted in that thread on my comments.

SERIOUSLY?

Do you ever comment, that camera equipment u using is not suitable for the job? dat model doesn't fits the theme? such form of critic?

You may not do it outright like me, posting straight to face to that person but doesn't mean you don't. Different people different approach. For straight forward people like me, this is my character and never will change, sure I will offend people but that doesn't mean I am wrong also. Just that my approach is different from yours.

Isn't that hyprocritic you are? Just cos you do it "silently" while i do "outrightly", you right I wrong? Comeone man, you are no better.

 

[spree86]

I believe most of them maliciously look like this.

Hey that's a nice drawing of Kei :bsmilie:

 

[sinned79]

Oh I just noticed that post, rats, I suggested a shotgun wedding diorama too, oops! :embrass:

no worries, u are different. I truly understand what you wrote. You are giving suggestion to shooting a wedding theme, faking a shot gun wedding shot.

but the person who commented, is not saying this way, he maliciously said my clients got into a marriage due to shot gun wedding and that is very disrespectful of him to say that unnecessarily.

 

[kei1309]

i would like to ask a simple question to get off my mind. So in case someone say I never stop posting.

To those who retorted in that thread on my comments.

SERIOUSLY?

Do you ever comment, that camera equipment u using is not suitable for the job? dat model doesn't fits the theme? such form of critic?

You may not do it outright like me, posting straight to face to that person but doesn't mean you don't. Different people different approach. For straight forward people like me, this is my character and never will change, sure I will offend people but that doesn't mean I am wrong also. Just that my approach is different from yours.

Isn't that hyprocritic you are? Just cos you do it "silently" while i do "outrightly", you right I wrong? Comeone man, you are no better.

totally agree with you bro. you're outspoken, and most people can't take that.

but be it thoughts or action/words, it still counts. those that can keep it internal and not say it out yet wear a smile on their faces, are the people that are fake, and hypocrites

 

[foxtwo]

All i can say is u guys are too stiff and if you think this and that and cannot voice out what you think. I say, being human is difficult. I am not a hypocrite who even though inside thinks about something but say/do another thing. To me, nice is nice, ugly is ugly, dun need to beat ard the bush.

If you know me outside in real life, I am an exact replica like I am on a forum (I am not a cyber warrior), I am straight (this oftens offends people) and some friends like me for that cos I am honest and say what I feel instead of hide here and there.

Perhaps you guys read the wrong way and thought I am being malicious, but seriously I am not. I can be worst than that if I want to if I really needs to attack someone (especially those threads I attack seeking for cheapo photographers).

But compared to those responses to my comments, use your heart and think. Who is more furious and in "attack mode"? If you see the way I defend, I only strictly stick to my original opinion and never add spices and salt. Like someone commented about my client having shot gun, senior citizen. Gosh, you should be ashamed of yourself. While I only critic that the model is not suitable for the theme, I never say shes ugly. But the way you critic my clients, you are far worst.

And those who put words in my mouth that I never said. You know who you are. Also, those in chinese writing the word GAN. I am also a chinese and comeon, do you need to be so vulgar just cos of my comments?

To these people who react to my comments, do you need to go such lengths to retort back for an opinon? So who are the actual stirrers (the opinion I gave is to the organiser and the model but why other responses come in to defend which makes me reply more - is there a need to for you to do that, its just btw me, organiser and model in the first place - if not such responses come in, I would have stopped and wun bother to reply since I already voiced out and feel comfortable already)?

A true blue stirrer will just post and hide. Wun be so silly enough to keep posting to defend his point.

I am just glad I am unique to myself and true to my character, and not the same like those people who gave the responses.

Ok, enough said.

Wah okay, I had a whole other response but never mind that. You just try to rationalise why mod gave you an infraction, and why with 9000+ posts in here you have not learnt how to phrase opinion and feedback without involving your real-life persona. Happy posting!

 

[sinned79]

And for the case of the organised shoots thread, am I right to say it is simply not too nice to go infront of a chicken rice stall and tell the customers "this kuay perng sibeh pai jiak". Agree?

I am sure people does that before. But the chicken rice stall owner can provide people wrong by improving his cooking techniques and attract long queues.

next time this people will say, "eh, last time bo lang eh... now totally opposite! must try".

as long as the critic is honest and not wrong, why can't?

 

[kei1309]

Kei is the New Nightmare now.

:nono:!!!!

Hey that's a nice drawing of Kei :bsmilie:

i'm being stalked!

 

[sinned79]

Wah okay, I had a whole other response but never mind that. You just try to rationalise why mod gave you an infraction, and why with 9000+ posts in here you have not learnt how to phrase opinion and feedback without involving your real-life persona. Happy posting!

cos I am just being me. I am not rationalising why mod gave me infraction. I already said in that thread, if the mod wants to infract me, go ahead. Mod want to infract me, let them be, its their job.

as long as me is still me, my conscience is clear, I continue to be me. hence after 9000+ post, got into an arguement (cos the mod can't see eye to eye with me trying to help out an unfortunate little gal) with the mod resulting my previous nick banned, here I come back, I am still the old me.

why should I change for others?

seriously, this world will be a better place to stay in if everyone open up their thoughts and voice out (as long as its honest and not malicious) so people can know what you think. Sometimes it may be unpleasant, but you never know what you gonna get.