WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[Pitachu]

Wow Ricohflex...... what a ton of prejudice opinions in your post.
No wonder you do not seems to understand all the points I made regarding your earlier statements.

From the 2 sentences in your post, you seemed to rank a brand''s image as your most important criteria
instead of other strengths like image quality or portability of the whole system.

Having a successful brand of camera is like wearing a luxury watch?
Using a brand like Olympus the photographer is a loser???

To me as a photographer, I don't really care about the brand of the camera.
I look at what I need and get the equipment that match my needs (the most cost effective one).

Carrying an expensive camera like Leica does not improve the image quality of my shots.
It's the photographer's skills and perspective.

It is very clear from the post that your seems to think that with the Sony 7c or A7mk4,
you will be seen by others as a successful photographer. Maybe around the people
you are with who keep admiring your gear?

With my buddies, we are only interested in each other photos, where and how we
took that shot etc. We seldom talk about or admire each other's equipment.
I don't even know most of my peers equipment when they share their photos.
So what if they are taken by a Seagull, Yashica, Olympus,, Canon or Sony?
Does it really matter? What's the use of the Sony Top of the line when the photographer
with the manual Seagull or M43 has a much better shot?

I think at the end of the day, the really loser are those who spend tons of money
on their equipment without being able to maximize the potential of the equipment,
and not those that use cheaper or outdated equipment.

Since you have made a sweeping statement that any photographers with M43 in the future
will be seen as a loser, why dont you post all the high end future proof equipment
you have here together with the best shots you have taken so far here
for us to see how successful you have been?

Some photos from Seagull TLR camera

Seagull TLR

Please share the photos that come from the Seagull TLR only. Don't hesitate to start the discussion relates with the camera and its relations. If you still don't get it what kind camera the Seagull TLR is. Just check out the this link: shop.lomography.com/seagull/ FYI, now we've got the weblog...

www.flickr.com

[/QUOTE]

People like to wear and be seen using products associated with success, progress, forefront of technology, wealth and status.

They do not like to be seen using a product widely associated with failure.

This is the truth. (Whether is it good or bad, is another story.)

That is why some people like to wear brand name luxury watches.

It may come to a point in near future, that if one uses MFT in a photo outing, then others think of him as a Loser. This is the greatest fear of the marketing gurus at Panasonic.

After the fall of Olympus, its unsold MFT inventory will be liquidated at big discounts well below cost.

 

[ricohflex]

The thread topic question is "What's next for m43 after Olympus - What future is left?"

See this:
Advertisement by Apple - Enlargement of a photo taken using iPhone X, hung on the side of an abandoned building.

Credit: Alamy
https://www.alamy.com/giant-apple-a...district-bangkok-thailand-image268290375.html

And read this about photos taken with an iPhone 11 Pro:
Credit: PetaPixel
https://petapixel.com/2020/04/22/i-tried-printing-iphone-photos-really-big/

So if a mobile phone can do that, then do users need MFT, APS-C, Full Frame, Medium Format?

Manufacturers have used the same worn out arguments to defend their respective camera model.
How big enlargements do you really need?
Or how many people make big enlargements anyway?

Now got 108MP mobile phones by Samsung, Xiaomi, Motorola. More in future.
Probably their trick is computational photography.

Photographers who love their equipment/brand/sensor format so much that they attack anyone who criticizes it - will dismiss the threat posed by mobile phones to the camera business.

But remember this.
You are you. Let's assume some other consumers share your opinion.
The other 95% of the consumer buying public may think differently from you.

And everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[Pitachu]

The thread topic question is "What's next for m43 after Olympus - What future is left?"

Yes, the future of M43 may look bleak.

But if you ask me, so does APS too, as Canon and Nikon is now focusing on their new
Mirrorless Cameras. Probably what remains could be Full Frame Mirrorless.

It is not Olympus made a mistake on banking on M43.
It is a market trend every manufacturer could not fight, as the mass market migrate to mobile
phones.

Look at what Nikon felt in Nov 2019 - even before the Pandemic.
Even Nikon is facing problems with its imaging division.

Nikon Says Its Cameras Need to Justify Their Existence as a Business

The digital camera industry has been nosediving as of late, and Nikon is feeling the pain. In its latest financial results, Nikon revealed some grim

petapixel.com

So it is not surprising that the rest of the manufacturers face similar challenges too in major drop in sales.

 

[Pitachu]

Retrenchment cannot be only attributed to mismanagement and bad decisions.
Unless you have been in a cave the last 6 months, you should know that we are
now under a pandemic. Lots of well managed companies have closed down.
The rest are retrenching so as to hold on longer eg. SIA, one of the best managed
airlines in the world.

On the photography side, me and my friends have postponed all our purchases
for the time being until we can travel resume. I was actually gathering a group
of friends for a Safari trip to Africa and looking into getting 1 or 2 super-teles
(eg. 600mm F4 etc).

Just give up and move to full frame? You need to consider several factors:
1) Cost of equipment vs benefits
2) Total distance covered on foot every day etc

And don't you think it is dumb to give up my whole M43 system with 5 or 6 lenses
when it is in perfect working conditions? I can easily use them for another 3 to 5 years.
Not only I have to spend a ton of $$$ for that, I end up lugging a heavy system or
a system with limited lenses which I detest. Dumb!

Time to stop writing articles to coax M43 users to make a dumb decision to give
up their M43 system. People will think that the author who propose that is more dumb!

https://www.43rumors.com/

26 Sep 2020
Quote [
Olympus staff made redundant in UK today, some already gone in France and more to come across Europe in coming weeks!
Around 2/3 of workforce lost their roles in UK today.
Nothing published, but heard from Olympus employee whose last day was today!
] EndQuote


If this rumor is true, then a few days before 30 Sep 2020 agreement signing, Olympus retrenched a lot of camera related staff outside of Japan.
JIP can say, not my problem. This was done by Olympus before JIP signed the agreement.

This is the human toll arising from the death of a sensor format. Ordinary employees suffer.
To the CEOs it is collateral damage of their mismanagement and bad decisions.
Users and customers can move on to the next sensor format and buy something else.

 

[swifty]

Where does it say it’s just camera related staff?
Seems to me this might be Brexit related.

 

[JW73]

Any move from Olympus or JIP means death to some people. LOL.

WIth SIA recent retrenchment, does it mean it’s the end?

 

[swifty]

Without further details it's really hard to determine what the situation is really due to.

But on the information given, why would 2/3 of the workforce in UK need to be retrenched or relocated when Imaging only accounts for something like 5-6% of Olympus.
And why are the workers to be relocated to the EU rather than back to HQs in Japan or just retrenched completely if it's purely an Olympus Imaging event.

Of course I'm sure imaging would be part of it and maybe the entire team are indeed being let go but this event seems to be more than just that.

 

[Pitachu]

Actually, I just realized that this is a click bait.
It is just a Headline with a disclaimer that the author is compensated when you click on it and subsequently buy things.
Look at the last line of the Photo below.

The author does not identify himself or the source of the info. It could be nothing but a click bait.


View attachment 81680

 

[swifty]

Hmm.. the rumour would suggest Panasonic are still spending money developing a GH6, rather than it sitting in a warehouse somewhere being the "last of the mohicans" and no further money spent in m43. I was wondering what spin the latest rumours would be met with ;P

Waiting for Panasonic m43 eh? I guess you forgot the G100 that was released this year.
Good that Panasonic keeps selling m43, otherwise where is it going to get the funds to develop L-mount.

 

[Pitachu]

But what benefit does the S50 (APS-C sensor has)?
20% more resolution? And to give up the whole range of M43 lenses?

Isn't it more logical for its customers to just buy the S5 or S1 instead?
S5 and S1 are Panasonic Full Frame DSLRs with Sigma and Leica support.
Does Panasonic want to start another new avenue again?

Anyway, Panasonic is almost ready to launch its Cine Cameras using M43 launch.
(patents are being registered in Russia and other countries, so it is likely to happen).
It is likely that Panasonic will continue to keep its M43 mounts for a long time.

Panasonic can re-engineer GH6 to have an APS-C sensor and a L mount. Then rename it as the S50.

 

[JW73]

To be fair, given a choice of m43 , APSC & FF , a consumer does not see beyond the lens size/weight ratio especially if they are starting out (kit lens/fix lens). M43 will not be the 1st choice. It takes a bit of research and trying out to really appreciate the m43 advantage.

The area m43 done well is limited to some specialised area like portable wildlife setup & possible the video segment. I just hope M43 will continue to develop what is their “stronger” market segment.

 

[Pitachu]

I agree. If I have never struggled with my Canon 5D and EOS70D on trips where there is quite a fair bit of walking,
I would never have realized the weight of the body and lens is so important.

And it was during one of Olympus workshop that I realize the advantage of the 2x factor, using Olympus 300mm F4 lens
as a 600mm F4 lens or a 1200mm F8 lens, handheld!!!!! I was so surprised that at 1200mm, my handheld shots are still sharp.

But I do agree that for those photographers who do not mind the additional weight or size and not likely to have several lenses,
Full Frame is probably a better choice for them.

To be fair, given a choice of m43 , APSC & FF , a consumer does not see beyond the lens size/weight ratio especially if they are starting out (kit lens/fix lens). M43 will not be the 1st choice. It takes a bit of research and trying out to really appreciate the m43 advantage.

The area m43 done well is limited to some specialised area like portable wildlife setup & possible the video segment. I just hope M43 will continue to develop what is their “stronger” market segment.

 

[swifty]

To be fair, given a choice of m43 , APSC & FF , a consumer does not see beyond the lens size/weight ratio especially if they are starting out (kit lens/fix lens). M43 will not be the 1st choice. It takes a bit of research and trying out to really appreciate the m43 advantage.

The area m43 done well is limited to some specialised area like portable wildlife setup & possible the video segment. I just hope M43 will continue to develop what is their “stronger” market segment.

Yea.. I think they need to own their niche. But admittedly that’s also getting more difficult even in the portable wildlife segment.
The thing is Canon and Nikon have access to DO and PF lens tech which gives them a leg up in the portability stakes.
Once Nikon goes above 35MP in their DX camera, a native 300mm f/4 PF for the Z mount basically gives it the same pixel density as 20MP m43 in a smaller package.
Canon are already there with their 32MP 1.6X crop sensor so they just need their RF 300mm f/4 DO

That’s why if m43 stood still, each advantage would eventually get picked off.
So although I’m actually quite happy with their current 20MP sensors, to stay relevant they will need to move that bar along.

 

[Pitachu]

You are probably wrong.

When the users are current GH5 and GH6 users, it is much more likely that they will upgrade to GH6v or GH6x or GH7,
as they would have invested in a couple of M43 lenses.

If Panasonic is to stop making M43 bodies and its followers have to move on to eg. a Full Frame,
Panasonic would have to think very hard for the users to choose its Full Frame system
instead of Sony A7S series or Canon R5 etc.

I could be wrong. Panasonic may really sell the GH6 after making consumers wait.

Because if they already made it as a MFT and the stock in the warehouse. Why don't sell?

However, if Panasonic decides not to sell the GH6 and is willing to absorb the money lost in manufacturing it.
Then it means Panasonic is really ending MFT and does not want to send the wrong signal to the consumers.

As for future development of GH6V and GH6X, well maybe not.

I think Panasonic will cease R&D for MFT.

If Panasonic wants to grow its Full Frame L mount presence, it cannot afford to split resources, R&D by continuing to dabble with MFT.
That MFT part is history.

MFT was good in 2008. No reason for a big conglomerate to cling on to the distant past.

What happened to Olympus Camera Division is an omen to Panasonic.

in 2020, it is time for Panasonic to move on to a better future with Full Frame L mount.

 

[ricohflex]

Done.

Olympus Agreed on Transfer of Imaging Business with JIP: 2020: News: Olympus

This page describes Olympus : News : 2020 : Olympus Agreed on Transfer of Imaging Business with JIP.

www.olympus-global.com

Understand the nature of the beast.

JIP is NOT:

a Goody Two Shoes.
an entity that espouses self-sacrifice in the service of mankind.
a charitable organisation.

This is a private equity fund.

JIP exists to deal with companies or divisions of big organisations that have been mismanaged to the point of financial insolvency.
Presumably JIP is able to manage the failed division, while Olympus had been unable to do so for the past 12 years.

JIP has claimed that it can change Olympus Camera Division [ a ruined company that lost money for 3 consecutive years (US$157 million in 2018 alone) ] into a profitable business within 1 year.

JIP provides a useful service to big organisations to shed one of its sub-divisions in Japan that has strict labour laws.

JIP does not have the capital and the research and development engineers or scientists to create a camera manufacturing business.

JIP people are mostly accountants.

Naturally, Olympus would keep the best talents for itself before handover to JIP.
The top software, design, and optical engineers would have been transferred to the medical imaging division long before 30 Sep 2020.

 

[Pitachu]

Agreed JIP is NOT a Goody Two Shoes.

But there is also no necessity to invest in a huge R&D team.
After all, cameras, like mobile phones, has reached the plateau of innovation.
eg. even if Sony comes up with the next A7R with twice the resolution and half the noise, it is not going to excite a lot of people.

After all, how many A7R3 users upgrade to A7R4 users when Sony increase the resolution from 42mp to 61mp?
All my friends who are Sony A7 users (some are professionals using the A7R3 to make a living) have not upgrade.
They actually say "not much difference what, the R3 already so good....) Proves my point that Resolution is really
not that impt unless you need it. Otherwise it is just like driving a 6000cc car, when 1600cc or 2000cc can get you
around pretty well

And many camera sensors are being purchased from outside anyway (most supplied by Sony to other brands).

JIP is in a position to consolidate or outsource manufacturing (just like it did for the VIAO) which Olympus and Sony
is not able to do as a brand owner. This is necessary as market demand shrunk and each brand will not be able
to fill up its own factory capacity.

I am not expecting a lot from JIP. I think a lot of Olympus and M43 users will be very happy and continue to
use their M43 system if JIP is able to provide support and do periodical minor updates to Olympus systems.
After all, we just need a portable lightweight system to our hiking and travel.

I can always use the iPhone in my pocket, but being a photographer for so many years, I just like to be able
to physically set aperture, shutter speed or optical zoom, which are all virtual (digitally simulated) on a mobile phone.
Hence, my Em5 Mk3 really serves my purpose well without being overly heavy.

If I need more resolution or dynamic range etc and the situation permit me to carry a full frame system
(eg. short 1 to 2 hours shoot), I can always fall back to my Canon FF and APS system.

Done.

Olympus Agreed on Transfer of Imaging Business with JIP: 2020: News: Olympus

This page describes Olympus : News : 2020 : Olympus Agreed on Transfer of Imaging Business with JIP.

www.olympus-global.com

Understand the nature of the beast.

JIP is NOT:

a Goody Two Shoes.
an entity that espouses self-sacrifice in the service of mankind.
a charitable organisation.

This is a private equity fund.

JIP exists to deal with companies or divisions of big organisations that have been mismanaged to the point of financial insolvency.
Presumably JIP is able to manage the failed division, while Olympus had been unable to do so for the past 12 years.

JIP has claimed that it can change Olympus Camera Division [ a ruined company that lost money for 3 consecutive years (US$157 million in 2018 alone) ] into a profitable business within 1 year.

JIP provides a useful service to big organisations to shed one of its sub-divisions in Japan that has strict labour laws.

JIP does not have the capital and the research and development engineers or scientists to create a camera manufacturing business.

JIP people are mostly accountants.

Naturally, Olympus would keep the best talents for itself before handover to JIP.
The top software, design, and optical engineers would have been transferred to the medical imaging division long before 30 Sep 2020.

 

[swifty]

Panasonic DC-BGH1 MFT camera specifications leaked (10MP, C4K60P) - Photo Rumors

Here are the first leaked Panasonic DC-BGH1 camera specifications (the BGH1 camera was recently registered in Russia): 10.28 MP sensor Micro Four Thirds mount C4K60P 4:2:2 10-bit RAW video (HDMI output), C4K60P 4:2:0 10-bit (H.265 / HEVC) internal recording Dual native ISO Double SD card slot...

photorumors.com

Panasonic m43 cine camera seems imminent. This is a Nokishita leak so pretty much confirmed.

 

[one eye jack]

Talking about R&D, Canon buys Fujitsu supercomputer to kick butt.
Supercomputer will enable canon to simulate prototypes without building them thus save time n resources.

Fujitsu to Deliver New Supercomputer System for Canon - Fujitsu Global

www.fujitsu.com

 

[swifty]

Developing a new systems is an expensive exercise.
It’d actually be the opposite. L-mount’s lifeline is m43 until it can stand on its own feet and that’s an if, not a when given the intense competition in FF.

 

[JW73]

If Full frame is the simple solution why Nikon is still non-profitable. Nikon has a full range of FF & APS_C cameras to choose from.