WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?


Pitachu

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Look at the size of a Full Frame 600mm F4 lenses! Compared to using a M43 system equivalent.
Yes, you do get better results with 4 times the price and few times the weight if you want.
There are pros and cons in every system, but there is definitely a niche of users that would rather have smaller gear.
The youtube below is a fair comparison stating the benefits of Full Frame huge telephoto lenses vs M43 solution.


 

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one eye jack

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Part 3

Here for clearer explaination of the noise processing and detail loss when noise reduction is implemented although these are reviews of older cameras but it show quite well what noise reduction means. Look at the wood grain and plush toy.

Canon 7d MK2. Scroll to the bottom of the page to see what happens to details as you increase iso.


Canon 90d, a newer camera but the noise reduction does the same thing that results in detail loss @14:45
 

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one eye jack

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Part 4 DSLR Vs Mirrorless

Rolling shutter!!! Advantages and disadvantages of

1. Mechanical shutter - noisy sound , shutter shock and wear and tear life span of shutter. Even a top shutter speed of 1/8000th cannot stop motion at high speeds..@9:59 !!!
( Drone rotor blades ) .

2. Electronic shutter - silent, faster frame rates but suffer from rolling shutter. It is 20 times slower than mechanical shutter hence the rolling shutter distortion. ( Complete duration from start to finish .)

3. Electronic first curtain - combination of 1 and 2. If you have a stacked sensor like OM1 then it is advantageous to use first curtain as keeper rate improve but still has rolling shutter , a compromise for current technology.

Pros and cons @ 18: 59 . Best video on rolling shutter

Note: Canon admits IBIS ( in body image stabalisation ) can introduce rolling shutter, guess all cameras with ibis also will have rolling shutter at different shooting situations until processor and memory technology catches up.

 

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one eye jack

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Mirrorless cameras sales has gone up, 570k units in September. M43 is not dead! With OM1 and GH6 @ 6:10 and pansonic will introduce better face detect technology. New cameras expected to be announced in mid Jan. 2023.

 

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ricohflex

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His "chart" has NO title. The legend shows the Years. But no further indication of what the line chart represents.

Why is he surprised?
If only Pentax (any one else?) is making mirror DSLR, then the rest is mirrorless.
Why act surprised when that is practically 99% of the remainder.

It is technically wrong to conclude that M43 is not dead and that Panasonic & OMDS is selling well.
The overall chart MAY represent all brands/sensor formats of mirrorless.
There is no detailed breakdown into brands and sensor formats. Show the numbers. The true picture is unknown.
 

ricohflex

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[Olympus 300mm f4 Review: Full-frame 600mm f4 results? Tony & Chelsea Northrup]

He (Tony) is correct. View the video in detail to hear what he said.
From 7:42 to 8:14. He say. Not I say.
With words to the effect that the image quality of Olympus 300mm F4 is vastly inferior to the Nikkor 600mm F4.

From 9:14 to 10:30. He say. Not I say.
The Olympus 300mm F4 is not the best value.

The review was 3 years ago.
Now there is Canon R7 (APS-C and 32.5 MP) and 100 to 400mm lens, if you want cheap. {160mm to 640mm}

The comparison with full frame long telephoto lenses is a favourite tactic of M43 marketing.
But in the real world, how many buyers of full frame cameras actually buy 600mm, 800mm and 1200mm lenses?
Probably 1%. The Pros who do wildlife and sports, who have to deliver QUALITY images.

This explains why in spite of such tactics, M43 failed to such an extent that Olympus Camera Division had to be sold.
That is a FACT.

About the LOUSY image quality of the 300mm F4 lens that Tony talked about.
Well if one is a hobbyist, don't worry about it.
No one looks at your photos anyway.

But if one is a Pro and expect to be paid, then for heaven's sake stop using M43 for Professional assignments.
It is just plain wrong to expect to be paid by the Client and then knowingly use INFERIOR equipment.
 

one eye jack

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Jun 11, 2011
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His "chart" has NO title. The legend shows the Years. But no further indication of what the line chart represents.

Why is he surprised?
If only Pentax (any one else?) is making mirror DSLR, then the rest is mirrorless.
Why act surprised when that is practically 99% of the remainder.

It is technically wrong to conclude that M43 is not dead and that Panasonic & OMDS is selling well.
The overall chart MAY represent all brands/sensor formats of mirrorless.
There is no detailed breakdown into brands and sensor formats. Show the numbers. The true picture is unknown.
Ricohflex , if you had listened and paid attention to what the Youtuber said, this is the chart of mirrorless sales by CIPA for the year 2022 ending at September reaching 570k units sold worldwide . The blue horizontal line clearly indicates the months, January to September. The vertical line indicates unit volume . It shows figures for 2020, 2021 and 2022 in orange. The legend on top clearly stated. No title? If only you can read Japanese kanji or the chinese words. I don't either but I can make out the first two words as "outside" meaning worldwide and second word " business" meaning sales. Please don't act dumb. I don't know why you are so against m43 as it's just another digital photo format just like 110 film back in the day the size of a smartphone sensor.

IMG_20221109_112613.jpg



Your "hate" of m43 says something of you, there are issues you find troubling you but this is not a personal slur but a reminder so that you need to reflect on. People generally blame things outside of themselves when life is not going their way. In short they are unhappy so try to find joy in your life as it will help you live life the way it is meant to be, be joyful and good things will fall into place. Peace.
 

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Pitachu

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@ricohflex He also mentioned immediately after that that he is comparing a US$2500 Olympus 300mm lenses with a US$12,000 Nikon Lenses.
Well, if you can afford to pay 4 to 5 times more and carry 3 times the weight of body and lenses to the woods for maybe a substantial 20% increase in quality, be my guest. But I prefer lighter gear.

I don't think it is fair to use "lousy quality" on the Olympus 300mm F4. You can check the beginning of the video to listen to the reviewer comments are some of the photos he has shot with the Olympus 300mm F4. This lenses to produce very good results.

Anyway, don't depend on YouTubers. Their opinion usually depends on who pays them and also their judgement and priority may be different from yours. Join a Birding Group for example and borrow some equipment and test. Usually the organizer has some sponsored equipment in the car boot to lend anyone interested to test the equipment I joined a Olympus Birding Group once and shot with the Em1x and the 300mm F4 with 2x teleconverter (equal to 1200mm) on full frame and because of the light set up, I am able to shoot hand held and able to track flying birds even though it is my first time. The results are actually pretty good.

Also, do note that Canon R Telephoto lenses have quite slow apertures like Mirror Lenses F7.1 etc. If you add a 2x TeleConverter, it may affect your focussing when it is not as bright.

I do have a few classmates who enjoy birding (taking photos of birds) on weekends now that we are near retirement age. In the birding group I joined, there are also NO professional photographers. All our equipment are not sponsored and paid with our own savings. There seems to be a much larger number of hobbyist than professionals shooting wildlife. How many of us are prepared to pay US$12000 for a lenses?

Also, don't keep having the mindset that pros must use the most expensive and best gear. I know of a wedding photographer who is booked almost every week because he has lots of referrals (as his work is good) and he is very proud to shoot with Olympus gear, telling everyone his setup is light and allow him to move quickly to cover the angle he want. It is the photograhic skill that is impt, not the gear. :cool:




[Olympus 300mm f4 Review: Full-frame 600mm f4 results? Tony & Chelsea Northrup]

He (Tony) is correct. View the video in detail to hear what he said.
From 7:42 to 8:14. He say. Not I say.
With words to the effect that the image quality of Olympus 300mm F4 is vastly inferior to the Nikkor 600mm F4.

From 9:14 to 10:30. He say. Not I say.
The Olympus 300mm F4 is not the best value.

The review was 3 years ago.
Now there is Canon R7 (APS-C and 32.5 MP) and 100 to 400mm lens, if you want cheap. {160mm to 640mm}

The comparison with full frame long telephoto lenses is a favourite tactic of M43 marketing.
But in the real world, how many buyers of full frame cameras actually buy 600mm, 800mm and 1200mm lenses?
Probably 1%. The Pros who do wildlife and sports, who have to deliver QUALITY images.

This explains why in spite of such tactics, M43 failed to such an extent that Olympus Camera Division had to be sold.
That is a FACT.

About the LOUSY image quality of the 300mm F4 lens that Tony talked about.
Well if one is a hobbyist, don't worry about it.
No one looks at your photos anyway.

But if one is a Pro and expect to be paid, then for heaven's sake stop using M43 for Professional assignments.
It is just plain wrong to expect to be paid by the Client and then knowingly use INFERIOR equipment.
 

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JW73

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The 300mm F4 pro is an amazing lens. I used the C or N 300mm f4 before and the OM 300mm is a different beast.
Too bad the the local distributor pricing is way too high in my own view. If u see someone post the lens at 2nd hand market, it will be snapped up immediately because it is known to be a great lens demonstrated by other users. (not Tony)

In the birding community in SG, i begin to see more 150-400mmf4.5 & OM1 combo or 300mm & OM1 combo compared to 2021. And the results are amazing for that price set-up comparing to the more popular set-up. Time will tell.
 

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JW73

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[Olympus 300mm f4 Review: Full-frame 600mm f4 results? Tony & Chelsea Northrup]


About the LOUSY image quality of the 300mm F4 lens that Tony talked about.
Well if one is a hobbyist, don't worry about it.
No one looks at your photos anyway.
It’s the user problem. Go and look at Andy Rouse‘s work using this lens.

I have seen 600mmf4 FF with blurry images..and i know it’s user problem.

 

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Pitachu

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Thanks JW73 for the above URL to Andy Rouse.
@ricohflex if you are not able to use M43 to its fullest like Andy Rouse and other photographers,
don't keep talking the limitations of M43 and waste all your spare cash on a Full Frame System.
 

ricohflex

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Recent data from a video by Ordinary Filmmaker

Worldwide camera sales 2021

Canon 45.8%
Sony 27%
Nikon 11.3%
Fuji 5.9%
Panasonic 4.4% (may include some MFT sold)

Total for above 5 = 94.4%

Leaves 5.6% for "Others" which are individually too small to be reflected. OMDS may be included in there.

These are cold numbers. Draw your own conclusions. About what future is left for MFT - which is thread topic.
In case some one insists the data is not relevant.

My take is that Nikon got nothing to worry about. Their user base from film days is huge.
Nikon Z mount is very good. The design is correct. They will make it.
As the years pass, the inherent smallness of Sony's E mount (a carry over from APS-C initial manufacturing) will be felt.
 

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one eye jack

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Why Ricohflex did not link the video he quoted from. Well it is this:
1. canon dominates market share at 45% at 2021.
2. Sony destroyed Nikon whose share dropped to
11%.
3. Panasonic maintained market share of 4.4 % @ 4:48
But shocking is all brands not introducing new models . My guess is there is a worldwide recession coming so people will have less spending power, choosing to prioritise where it's important to them. Certainly not cameras.

There is a offshoot video at canon forum, detailing canon's new business strategy because it's cripple hammer is not working any more . The new buzz word is value add .

 

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ricohflex

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In 2022, we are discussing whether MFT has a future.

MFT was excellent in its golden age of 2008. That was 14 years ago - a span of several generations in digital photography terms.
MFT was a wonder - at that time in 2008.

Similarly the 5¼ inch floppy disc was excellent in its golden age of 1976. (the 8 inch bigger one was introduced in 1971).
The 5¼ inch floppy disc was also a wonder - at that time in 1976.
I have used and owned 5¼ inch floppy disc.

Technology improves as time passes. Naturally, consumers adopt new things, formats, systems and concepts.

To insist that MFT has a future in 2022 (and after) is like demanding that everyone believe that modern computers in 2022 and beyond still must have 5¼ inch floppy disc drives built-in.

Sometimes it is difficult for die hard fans to let go of a dearly loved obsolete concept.
 

one eye jack

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I have 7 m43 cameras, 2 Fuji, 1 apsc dSLR, 1 fullframe 5d, have used film cameras including Kodak brownie, Polaroid instant and twin reflex seagull medium format. Life is fun. May venture into antique film camera.



 

ricohflex

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Some time ago I asked a friend who went on a few days trip to KL (to attend KL photo show 2022), to check out 4 MFT lenses.

His feedback after the trip was that NONE of the big camera shops in KL want to stock MFT equipment.

If what he said is true, then it means that all the puffing statements made in the Internet forums (about how popular and wonderful MFT is) are good for show only.
It is all FAKE.

The reality on the ground In KL reveals the true state of the situation.

If you bother to visit local SG departmental stores, e.g. Best Denki in Funan Mall. You will discover similar reality on the ground.
They have ZERO display of Olympus/OMDS MFT.
I did not spot Panasonic MFT either.

That is how much "future" MFT has in Nov 2022.
This is the real world telling you.

---------------------------

One more thing - the so-called universal sharing of MFT across various brands is also untrue.

Although you can mount the lens, each manufacturer wants to protect their own turf. A Panasonic lens mounted on an Olympus camera body will have certain features PURPOSELY disabled/crippled (by Olympus). Vice Versa.

So the upshot of all this is {What is the point of so-called universal sharing of MFT}?

Might as well stay with your Nikon or Canon or Fuji.
The native lenses of each brand will be able to use the full range of features, when mounted on their brand's camera body.
 

one eye jack

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Part A:

It is sad that Ricohflex has succumbed to the marketing propaganda of Sony, canon and Nikon who are fullframe camera manufacturers. Apsc was just a necessity to produce a cheaper smaller sensor than 35mm fullframe.

Modern photo enthusiasts should go back in history of how photography was marketed then, it was technically medium format roll film. It was world war 1 that propelled the VPK ( vest pocket Kodak ). Photographs were shared to family members about how the war progressed and newspapers published the horrors of war. VPK became popular, it's black and white negative was 6 X4 cm. There were other formats like 6X9cm.

106904


Another film format made popular was 35mm , what is now known as fullframe 36 X 24mm. by Leica . It was a range finder small and compact and again it was world war 2 which propelled 35mm into common use thereafter. Actually bigger formats were also used like
4X5 inch press cameras, it is country dependent.



 

one eye jack

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Part B:

Sony, canon and Nikon would have you believe that to take good photos you need professional cameras which cost much more and make better profits. But the reality is unless you are a professional making a living, all this image quality is mostly for prints in magazine and large prints like fine art in galleries.

A typical consumer can now get better images from their smartphone cameras which is 12mp. conveniently and idiot proof, without any knowledge of photography. So hobby photographers have to ask themselves whether they need this professional quality as obviously viewing photos on phone or social media does not need professional quality.

So what does professional quality mean? Invariably it is in prints so let's get the truth from a professional.


With that fullframe is nowhere except for wedding and portrait professionals that are within their budgets. So are you a professional?

Digital medium format is not the same as film medium format. Aaahhh...cannot match the tonality.

 

one eye jack

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Part C:

Film Vs digital. Medium format Vs Sony a7mk4 61 mp. Film gives blackest of blacks!


Just different, film Vs digital

 

one eye jack

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Part D:

Dynamic range difference of film and digital.



It's better to be a good photographer than worry over dynamic range.