WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?


blackmondy

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Thanks. I am now subscribed to Rob Trek.

Ha ha... Yes Robin Wong do articulate a lot. But nowadays, there are so many Youtube channels I subscribed to. I usually like them play in the background while doing some work. Only when what they say is interesting or have something to show, then I put it in the foreground to watch a while. As there is no point looking at a speaker speaking unless they have something to illustrate.
Rob Trek covers a lot on flash photography, which is a black art in itself. You notice these so-called visionaries and ambassadors don't talk much about flash photography, because they suck at it.
 

ricohflex

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MFT was good in 2008. Time does not stand still. Competitors innovate.
As time passes, what was once prohibitively expensive (full frame sensors) have become cheaper.
The CEO of the ex-Olympus camera division probably treated MFT as his baby and emotionally was unable to let go.
If he had an immutable belief that MFT was all that is needed - he is entitled to his opinion.
What was terribly wrong about the Olympus saga was that the CEO of the ex-Olympus camera division, was happy to indulge in his fantasy - as long as he was losing OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.
His irresponsible behavior would have been alright if the hundreds of millions $$$ lost came out of his personal bank account.
 

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ricohflex

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I think some still do not understand the difference between:
a BCN report
and
an INTERNAL house research (by a group of Olympus employees) based on BCN data.

The 2nd is NOT a BCN report.
It is a creative concoction (with unspecified assumptions and baseline conditions) that purports to interpret BCN data.
 

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one eye jack

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Rob Trek covers a lot on flash photography, which is a black art in itself. You notice these so-called visionaries and ambassadors don't talk much about flash photography, because they suck at it.

I think Olympus visionaries and ambassadors suck at flash photography is an unfair comment or statement simply because some are bird, wildlife and nature photographers so they never use flash at all. Same for Robin Wong if you know his shooting style by using available or natural light. It's not that he does not know about artificial lighting like flash. Rob Trek is also an architectural and interior photographer so he needs flash lighting when natural light is not available.

There is a misconception that flash photography is a black art simply because some make this claim to show they are masters of flash lighting. If you understand the physics or theory of light and the methods of shooting to make a photo look as if it is not shot by flash which people think it is a black art when it is knowing how to modify the intensity of flash or now even continuos lighting as you do not want to blast your model with blinding flash, which you would use the light feathering method by not pointing the light source at the model. If you use the arguement what about if there is no natural light at the time which I think is an artistic judgement a photographer has to make him or herself.

At 4.49 listen to why Robin Wong uses natural light, it's an artistic decision. Does he suck at portrait photography?


 

blackmondy

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I think Olympus visionaries and ambassadors suck at flash photography is an unfair comment or statement simply because some are bird, wildlife and nature photographers so they never use flash at all. Same for Robin Wong if you know his shooting style by using available or natural light. It's not that he does not know about artificial lighting like flash. Rob Trek is also an architectural and interior photographer so he needs flash lighting when natural light is not available.

There is a misconception that flash photography is a black art simply because some make this claim to show they are masters of flash lighting. If you understand the physics or theory of light and the methods of shooting to make a photo look as if it is not shot by flash which people think it is a black art when it is knowing how to modify the intensity of flash or now even continuos lighting as you do not want to blast your model with blinding flash, which you would use the light feathering method by not pointing the light source at the model. If you use the arguement what about if there is no natural light at the time which I think is an artistic judgement a photographer has to make him or herself.

At 4.49 listen to why Robin Wong uses natural light, it's an artistic decision. Does he suck at portrait photography?


I won't bother arguing with you but it's still a black art when it comes to balancing flash lighting with ambient lighting. It can be mitigated by using a flash meter who uses it these days? With digital you can bracket all you want and surely one will come out properly exposed.
You can defend these shills all you want but I will still stand by what I say.
 

blackmondy

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Oct 20, 2007
42
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MFT was good in 2008. Time does not stand still. Competitors innovate.
As time passes, what was once prohibitively expensive (full frame sensors) have become cheaper.
The CEO of the ex-Olympus camera division probably treated MFT as his baby and emotionally was unable to let go.
If he had an immutable belief that MFT was all that is needed - he is entitled to his opinion.
What was terribly wrong about the Olympus saga was that the CEO of the ex-Olympus camera division, was happy to indulge in his fantasy - as long as he was losing OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.
His irresponsible behavior would have been alright if the hundreds of millions $$$ lost came out of his personal bank account.
I still cannot fathom why small sensor cameras can cost as much as full frame. Apparently they still wallowing in their heydays of the OM-3Ti, thinking people will just buy them because it is unique.
 

Pitachu

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I still cannot fathom why small sensor cameras can cost as much as full frame. Apparently they still wallowing in their heydays of the OM-3Ti, thinking people will just buy them because it is unique.
Cost of Low end camera sensor cost about $5 and high end ones about $100.
It does not make a huge difference to a Mirrorless SLR, say about $1500 to $2500.
I think the manufacturers and retailers do not really price the products as a markup from their cost but
based on how much they can sell it for. When no one buys it, the price will drop by quite a fair bit.

I think the EM1x launch price us about US$2999, now selling about US$1999 and a lot more units are sold.
Same for the Sony A7R3 and A7R2 :)
 

Pitachu

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I won't bother arguing with you but it's still a black art when it comes to balancing flash lighting with ambient lighting. It can be mitigated by using a flash meter who uses it these days? With digital you can bracket all you want and surely one will come out properly exposed.
You can defend these shills all you want but I will still stand by what I say.
Users of M43 Cameras are usually not Portrait, Product or Indoor Architecture Photographers and that is why they do not use flash as often.
M43 users normally have portability as one of their top priority, so they are usually outdoor, street, travel and wildlife photography where flash are normally not needed.

In any case, if you are serious photographer using flash and shoot for a living, you will be using a light meter. A light meter measures direct light falling on the subject, the camera measures reflected light. It can make a huge difference especially when you are using multiple studio lights to create the necessary shadows and 3D effect. You cannot really achieve that with Bracketing. :)
 

ricohflex

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I have used Exposure meters (various).
Some exposure meters can also do Spot Metering (Reflected Light).
Exposure meters do not ONLY measure Reflected light.

Some exposure meters are capable of measuring Incident light.
That is why some exposure meters have the white Hemispherical Diffusion Dome and/or the white Flat Diffusion Disc.
Which you can attach.
In one budget Sekonic model ( Sekonic Flashmate L308S-U ), you slide the white Hemispherical Diffusion Dome over the meter light measuring cell.
The usual brands are Minolta (probably stopped making), Gossen and Sekonic. There are other brands.

On the Internet there is a whole lot of rubbish by people who do not know what they are "teaching".

For example from one website :
Quote [ There are two attachments that go on your hand-held light meter, one is a Flat Disc and the other is a half-sphere. The Flat Disc is used to read reflected light. To do so, you just slip the disc on and hold the metering cell directly toward the object in which you want a reading. ] UnQuote

This is WRONG.
The so-called expert does not know his stuff.
That is the trouble with the Internet. A lot of misinformation.
 

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ricohflex

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The YouTube reviewer is an OMDS ambassador - meaning he is a marketing mouth piece for the company. He signed a contract.
Thus at the end he insists that he thinks, OMDS will not make a full frame (35mm format) camera body and will stick to MFT
But may change his tune later, should OMDS join L mount alliance.

As a newly minted recontracted ambassador, he would not have dared to upload this video without the approval nod from OMDS.
This is OMDS way of pre-announcing the news to join L mount.

The answer to the question in the following video is simple. It is obvious.
If Yes, OMDS may have a chance to live.
If No, OMDS will die.

 

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Pitachu

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It is a little too naive to think that by moving on to Full Frame, a manufacturer's woes will be over.
If so, why is Nikon in financial troubles.

So far, Panasonic has not shown much headway by jumping into the FF bandwagon.

The obvious way is that manufacturers must continue to innovate, like Sony.
It is NOT the sensor format, but having features that make it easier and more convenient
for users to be able to shoot faster, be more creative and have better quality images.

It is not easy to stand out among the established FF camera models.

And that is why Fujifilm is smart to stay away and focus on APS and Medium Format.

Panasonic jumped in with the L-Format thinking that that is the magic pill, but
having a selection of Lenses is only 1 factor. It has to move ahead of what Sony and Canon
has done, to have featurers that lead the pack and wow the potential buyers.


The YouTube reviewer is an OMDS ambassador - meaning he is a marketing mouth piece for the company. He signed a contract.
Thus at the end he insists that he thinks, OMDS will not make a full frame (35mm format) camera body and will stick to MFT
But may change his tune later, should OMDS join L mount alliance.

The answer to the question in the following video is simple. It is obvious.
If Yes, OMDS may have a chance to live.
If No, OMDS will die.

 

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ricohflex

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The fp and the new fpL have the same body dimensions.
Previously some one did a size comparison with the E-M1X.
Although that is history (as Olympus Camera Division was divested to JIP).

It is a learning point because for the longest time, MFT harped on small body size as its most significant feature.

The fpL has 61 MP and its full frame sensor is 4 times bigger than the E-M1X which has 20.4 MP.
The fpL expected launch price is US$2499.
The E-M1X price when launched was US$2999.
Not only did they lose the body size comparison, they also lost significantly in the MP, Price, Weight and Sensor Size parameters.

It is downhill all the way with MFT and it is time for OMDS to wake up and join the L mount.

Credit for image: www.apotelyt.com

 

Blu-By-U

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Why look at a camera without a EVF? Adding the optional EVF, how much more? How much adding to the dimension? @ricohflex, You are a very funny man.
 

Pitachu

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@ricohflex , you only lifted out a photo out of the whole comparison review and insert your own prejudiced views.

Why you did not quote the whole article for everyone to read?
Because you do not want the readers to read the author's conclusion?

There are pros and cons of each camera system, but in the end, the author came to the conclusion that
"the Olympus E-M1x is the clear winner of the match-up based on advantage points"



The fp and the new fpL have the same body dimensions.
Previously some one did a size comparison with the E-M1X.
Although that is history (as Olympus Camera Division was divested to JIP).

It is a learning point because for the longest time, MFT harped on small body size as its most significant feature.

The fpL has 61 MP and its full frame sensor is 4 times bigger than the E-M1X which has 20.4 MP.
The fpL expected launch price is US$2499.
The E-M1X price when launched was US$2999.
Not only did they lose the body size comparison, they also lost significantly in the MP, Price, Weight and Sensor Size parameters.

It is downhill all the way with MFT and it is time for OMDS to wake up and join the L mount.

Credit for image: www.apotelyt.com

 

JW73

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Same tricks again. Why not use GM or Gx or Pen series to compare dimensions. As if m43 users have one em1x as a choice only.
 

one eye jack

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This kind of reviews based on specifications are all too common and safe to put out as it is not controversal and merely echoes what other people wrote so why would anybody pay attention. Either you say something sensational like m43 is dead or fullframe for olympus which I think is a desperate attempt to gain viewership which the game is all about by spreading implausible rumours which will make people lose respect and trust ( another ambassador just confidently said it's going to be the next flahship which is a logical guess to wow people ).

Just like a well known person who said he was selling all his gear when he knew dslr was going away but later to announce that he finally went back to the same brand because of long relationship and claimed familiarity with it's quality and ergonomics but of course he had tried ALL brands and made his choice for the photography he shoots.

To come back to the above review saying that photographers choose a camera based on their needs is totally at odds with the person who sold all his equipment and later go back to the same brand because of the working relationship he had with the said brand and still say the brand is still his prefered choice. There you go expecting people to behave logically as stated in the review. The same advice given to be taken with a pinch of salt.
 

Pitachu

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Here is a good indication of where M43 is going and why :cool:

 

one eye jack

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Here is a good indication of where M43 is going and why :cool:


This is not about sensor format superiority but a practical business decision by Panasonic. While recognising that the success of both fullframe and M43 lies in it's ability to solve the engineering problems for video especially for fullframe cameras as it is targetted for professional use. While acknowledging M43 small sensor the transfer of data is inherently faster than fullframe sensor and less heat generated overall. The speed and heat problem is mirrored by the personal computer realm by need for fast computation by using multi core and threads processors but the obvious downsides are the huge heatsink and power supply requirements which cannot or difficult to implement in a fullframe camera body if a reasonable overall size is expected or else it will look more like a medium format equivalent size.

Next problem is the effectiveness of Panasonic's DFD autofocus technology which professional and enthusiast alike have complained since day one with panasonic saying it has improved it's software algorithm but still far from desirable. DFD has 2 component to the issue, software and hardware which mean the mechanical component tolerances of the autofocus mechanisms used in lenses. Panasonic claims DFD is more accurate than phase detect autofocus, I think a practical and easier way is to follow Olympus by have phase detect sensing in the image sensor which costs less in R&D and is easy to do on silicon fabrication. No matter how improved the software algorithm the human perception that it is hunting is still hard to solve unless a superfast processor is employed plus improvement in the autofocus mechanism to make autofocus look like phase detect.

Much creativity is needed to solve the fullframe data and autofocus problems for Panasonic. Lenses for professional use is easier to tackle. I wish Panasonic success in their efforts.
 

ricohflex

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Project this into the future about 30 years, say by 2050. Is OMDS and Panasonic still going to say that time stands still at 2008 and the world should be happy with MFT sensor size? Cannot be. Companies/manufacturers have to improve and evolve over time.
Otherwise consumers in 2021 will still be buying the electrical appliances/stuff they used to buy in the 1950's.
If OMDS does not change, it will be dead soon (1 year after 1 Jan 2021) when JIP decides to rip it up to sell off the parts.