What do you think of Pavin?


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Hobbesyeo

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Feb 16, 2005
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#1
In the wake of Melvin the pianist fiasco and the uproar surrounding NS dodgers, comes along Pavin Limanont (see his letter to the ST Forum below).

I'm curious as to how other CSer's would react, since I think the majority of members are guys and are probably either still in NS or have finished it. (Of course, ladies, please feel free to comment too. :))

So as not to create a bias, I've put my own views at the end of the post.
====================================================

Let those who intend to emigrate opt out of NS
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/forum/story/0,5562,365664,00.html?

I REFER to the Insight article, 'Doers & dodgers: Time to heal the rift?' (ST, Jan 14).

I share the same sentiment as Mr Paul Wong, feeling no allegiance to Singapore and not being able to assimilate into Singaporean culture even though I was born and raised here.

As a child, I grew up watching classic American movies and cartoons, and listening to American-genre music like country, southern gospel and classic American oldies.

My paternal aunts and uncles are Ivy League students and speak with a slight American accent and use American grammar in speech. I was influenced by them.

Because I am the child of a Thai father and a Singaporean mother, I am a citizen of both Thailand and Singapore. I hold a Singapore passport and will have to serve national service next year.

I do not intend to live in Singapore and, in fact, have made serious plans to emigrate to the United States in future.

Many friends of mine who have gone overseas to study intend to settle down in their host country after serving national service.

I do not support the evasion of national service but I appeal to the Government to make some changes to the policy.

For those who do not intend to live in Singapore, there is no purpose in serving national service. It is a waste of resources for the Government and a waste of time for those affected.

In my case, I will renounce my Singapore citizenship at age 21 and take on Thai citizenship. The US will be my home in future and if a war breaks out between Singapore and the US, God forbid, obviously I would help to defend the US and fight Singapore if need be.

Therefore, I do not see the purpose of training men who might 'turn against' their country in unforeseen circumstances.

Perhaps the Ministry of Defence could come up with a policy to permit those who intend to emigrate to opt out of national service but if they do not leave by a certain age, then they would be drafted.

Patriotism and loyalty cannot be forced. It is ultimately up to an individual whether he wants to serve the country.

Pavin Limanont



=======================================================

Hobbesyeo: Personally, I feel disgusted with his attitude. He should just leave Spore now if he feels so strongly about it rather than waiting till he's 21.:thumbsd:
 

k3nn3th03

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Jan 6, 2005
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#2
In my case, I will renounce my Singapore citizenship at age 21 and take on Thai citizenship. The US will be my home in future and if a war breaks out between Singapore and the US, God forbid, obviously I would help to defend the US and fight Singapore if need be.

wat is he toking abt ??

i wun feel disgusted, cos he is not worth it..
 

reachme2003

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Oct 6, 2003
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#3
he is just airing his views and planned course of action. in most cases, by the time one is 21 yo(eligible to renounce citizenship), one would have served or are serving full-time ns.
 

LENS

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Apr 8, 2005
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#4
By looking at what he said, he has a identity crisis for his whole family. US accent? will you tell ppl your engrish got hokkien accent ah? Definitely he had brought up by superficial parents.

You want this kind of man be your soldiers? If i am Bush, i will send him to Iraq! ha.

it is like one who like to have a rich, handsome man to be his father instead of the father who have brought him up.
Actually, we can't do anything on him, just let him go and let him fall and he will learn.

By the way, there is something need to change in the country side..how about educate students not going to superficial thing..like american accents?or be another SUPERSTARS?
Actually that's the reason ppl don't want to go for NS, because they see no benefits at all, they think they spend that years as wasted life, ...they want $ and fun instead of experience growing up as a more responsible and useful human being.

For the pianist case, he had paid what he had - not able to return to his home country. He had paid it, not able to be back where he belongs too is actually what he had paid, it is more than $5k. You may think it isn't a big deal since he wanted to be away? but try to imagine u can't go to your old home, no matter how disgusted you feel towards that place.

He actually had traded that, and we should stop accusing him, or putting the attention on whether is should be 5k or 10k or jail? Put in his shoe, and be less criticism.

Is it because he is successful so we find that is unfair? if he is poor and miserable life, will you still put the spot light on him?

fine 5k or 100k is not important, it is the attitude. Does it mean u pay 100k then u can get away from it?
 

trlnlty

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Mar 22, 2005
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#5
i gave up my sporean pr at the age of 16 and went to the states to study at 17 :dunno:

im going to graduate end of this year with my BA at the age of 20. Of course i would like to come back to singapore and settle down but not that much that i'll do ns for it. :nono:


i still like singapore/malaysia better then the states.. but will i do ns to stay in singapore.. probably not.
 

reachme2003

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Oct 6, 2003
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#6
why probably not?

trlnlty said:
i gave up my sporean pr at the age of 16 and went to the states to study at 17 :dunno:

im going to graduate end of this year with my BA at the age of 20. Of course i would like to come back to singapore and settle down but not that much that i'll do ns for it. :nono:


i still like singapore/malaysia better then the states.. but will i do ns to stay in singapore.. probably not.
 

trlnlty

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Mar 22, 2005
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#8
reachme2003 said:
why probably not?

i donno .. 2 years of ns to stay in a country i have no loyalty for?

c'mon lets face the fact.. singapore has no loyalty for its people .. once you are useless to her, she will chuck you away.


take for example, my mom was a teacher for 30+ years.. serving the country as a civil servent... she didnt apply for citizenship then ... but tried after she retired and they rejected her application....

keep in mind we have been staying in singapore for more then 30 years as a pr.
 

LENS

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Apr 8, 2005
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#9
If you have a choice for citizenship, then it is ok, it is your choice. mm..i think it is different with that pianist case.
 

poohbear

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Aug 11, 2004
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#10
trlnlty said:
i donno .. 2 years of ns to stay in a country i have no loyalty for?

c'mon lets face the fact.. singapore has no loyalty for its people .. once you are useless to her, she will chuck you away.


take for example, my mom was a teacher for 30+ years.. serving the country as a civil servent... she didnt apply for citizenship then ... but tried after she retired and they rejected her application....

keep in mind we have been staying in singapore for more then 30 years as a pr.
may i ask which country you have your loyalty for ?
 

loupgarou

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Sep 9, 2003
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#11
if you're born male in singapore, the only way you're getting out of ns liability is have a sex change.
---
you cannot renounce your citizenship until you are age 21 according to constitution.
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you must register for ns at 16 or so.
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teo chee hian might say that those who emigrate at young age might not be liable but this rule is NOT in the statutes anywhere and up to the descretion of the powers that be.
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every NS serving person consumes taxes paid by the public.
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and the commonsense logic: why should the public pay to support/train someone who will end up a citizen of another country, possibly becoming an enemy combatant?

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if your endorsement is that pavin should do NS anyway, then its just a case of "I suffer, so he must suffer", hardly the civilised attitude to take.

and all it does is endorse that people who have talent to immigrate should not come back to singapore in future..

(heck, if you want to meet the family, then just land in jb, get them all go jb for seafood dinner.... give jb some of those SG dollars lah.)

oh and if you do end up as some high profile executive and have to go back to asia pacific to setup a regional office for a mnc, skip singapore, cos you go there you kenna fine and jail..
 

Caspere

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Jul 27, 2003
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#12
loupgarou said:
...........

oh and if you do end up as some high profile executive and have to go back to asia pacific to setup a regional office for a mnc, skip singapore, cos you go there you kenna fine and jail..
So you are going to tell your boss the truth that you have a outstanding warrant of arrest in SG so cannot land in SG? How about transitting to other parts of Asia?

Somehow I do not think outstanding arrest warrant is acceptable for any company or mnc whatever the reasons.

It sure gives a new meaning to "Wanted in Singapore"
 

trlnlty

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Mar 22, 2005
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#13
poohbear said:
may i ask which country you have your loyalty for ?

no country :dunno:

what does loyalty to a country mean anyway ?

if it means fighting in a war for a country, i wont..ir-regardless of country singapore or malaysia.

right now the only 2 conditions would i fight for my life is my family and my God.
 

poohbear

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Aug 11, 2004
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#14
trlnlty said:
no country :dunno:

what does loyalty to a country mean anyway ?

if it means fighting in a war for a country, i wont..ir-regardless of country singapore or malaysia.

right now the only 2 conditions would i fight for my life is my family and my God.
先治其国,后治其家
无国可治也,何来家可治 ?

这位兄台有如此想法,可真是唉哉唉哉也!:think:

 

alba

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Jan 26, 2002
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#16
Hobbesyeo said:
.....As a child, I grew up watching classic American movies and cartoons, and listening to American-genre music like country, southern gospel and classic American oldies........

....My paternal aunts and uncles are Ivy League students and speak with a slight American accent and use American grammar in speech. I was influenced by them........

.....In my case, I will renounce my Singapore citizenship at age 21 and take on Thai citizenship. The US will be my home in future and if a war breaks out between Singapore and the US, God forbid, obviously I would help to defend the US and fight Singapore if need be.
It's plain that he's an anglophile or rather an 'americano-phile'.

A 'banana man' even though he's not white; much less grew up in states......

To add on, he's not even a Thai although it runs in his blood and birth. He's only taking on Thai citizenship out of convenience.

When I was much younger, the world looked up to US, being able to associate with them is elite.

This thinking now to put it simply; is passe.... :sticktong

This man has no roots.
 

eric69

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Dec 22, 2003
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#17
Everyone is entitled to their own views. Guess that make everyone of us unique. I guess, if given the choice, I'll serve NS again (when I'm 18). A portion of my good friends are my army buddies. It's a phase of life as a Singaporean, just do it and move on with it. I heard views from some friends that 2.5 years of NS did during their so-called "prime years" is really a waste of time. But I guess, to the majority of us who survived NS, it's the time of moulding a boy into a man, and one of the best time of our lives, at least for me and my army buddies.

So what if within that 2.5 years, one can move up the corporate ladder? The journey of life is long. Doesn't mean those who serve NS will have a disadvantage. During my 3 years of work stint in US, I have american colleagues who took 2~3 years off during their "prime years" just to backpack around the world, some enlisted in the US army etc, "just to roughen up" & "grow up".
 

KNIGHT ONG

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Dec 18, 2003
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#18
eric69 said:
Everyone is entitled to their own views. Guess that make everyone of us unique. I guess, if given the choice, I'll serve NS again (when I'm 18). A portion of my good friends are my army buddies. It's a phase of life as a Singaporean, just do it and move on with it. I heard views from some friends that 2.5 years of NS did during their so-called "prime years" is really a waste of time. But I guess, to the majority of us who survived NS, it's the time of moulding a boy into a man, and one of the best time of our lives, at least for me and my army buddies.

So what if within that 2.5 years, one can move up the corporate ladder? The journey of life is long. Doesn't mean those who serve NS will have a disadvantage. During my 3 years of work stint in US, I have american colleagues who took 2~3 years off during their "prime years" just to backpack around the world, some enlisted in the US army etc, "just to roughen up" & "grow up".
Actually NS is good for us .. it make us more matured and look things differently where we learn to get things done in a team .. I have colleagues that doesnt served NS before and they dont understand what is teamwork to the fullest ..
:(
 

k3nn3th03

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2005
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#19
KNIGHT ONG said:
Actually NS is good for us .. it make us more matured and look things differently where we learn to get things done in a team .. I have colleagues that doesnt served NS before and they dont understand what is teamwork to the fullest ..
:(
very TRUE and well-said..

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 

Ah_Seng

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Apr 8, 2003
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#20
poohbear said:
先治其国,后治其家


无国可治也,何来家可治 ?

这位兄台有如此想法,可真是唉哉唉哉也!:think:

You know what bro?

I fully support your statement !!!
 

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