What a horrendous accident

[UncleFai]

Just heard on news: Jason Chee, the sailor involved in the naval accident has lost both legs and an arm. On the remaining arm, only two fingers are left. He is still in ICU. He is the sole bread winner. I hope he will pull through and face the future bravely.

Pray for him, brothers and sisters.

 

[ManWearPants]

How did it happened? Any CS fund raising?

 

[UncleFai]

http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/article.aspx?cp-documentid=251295500

MINDEF saying initial investigations point to equipment fault.

 

[allenleonhart]

once a month roughly (those that made it to the news). i've been counting the number of major accidents so far since march.

 

[silencer13]

poor guy, hope they compensate him for this. It's really sad to read these kinds of news.

 

[Shizuma]

that's awful to hear. men and women defending our country - salute to you.
i hope he gets all the help available.

 

[9V-Orion Images]

We once appealed to our formation chief during a dialogue session to honour and memorialise the sacrifices of all our fellow compatriots in the SAF and Home Team who had fallen in the line of duty while serving our nation in any way possible be it an anniversary, national monument etc. etc. least they be forgotten and all we got in reply was a whole lot of NATO condescending bullshit. This would also serve to remind commanders and men not to take safety for granted and while risks can be minimised, it cannot be completely avoided as military training exercises and operations are inherently fraught with danger especially with a heightened training and operational tempo by nature of the two years full time national service cycle. Many farming senior commanding officers shared similar sentiments but alas are stuck in the appointment and position of where they are at are now for years, possibly forever with little authority to change the system.

IIRC information we received from the General Staff Inspectorate (GSI) was that so far approximately xxx have lost their lives just in the Singapore Army alone since enlistment was introduced on 1967.

* Edit: Removed potentially classified information.

 

[Bukitimah]

I find that we are still very lacking in safety and tends to compromise for $. When I say $, it could be buying of safety equipment, time, training, space, etc.

We also should not over kill just because something happen. If we have taken all necessary steps and the nature of what to be perform involves risk, then the people taking the risk must be properly compensated.

Take for example flying a plane. It can come down anytime. Pilots are paid adequately.

More importantly, don't just try to find a scapegoat or merely a reason for such incident. Be honest about it. If we have compromised, then do it right to a lid future incident. If all have been taken care off and it is the nature of the job. We have to live with it.

 

[Yappy]

I find that we are still very lacking in safety and tends to compromise for $. When I say $, it could be buying of safety equipment, time, training, space, etc.

We also should not over kill just because something happen. If we have taken all necessary steps and the nature of what to be perform involves risk, then the people taking the risk must be properly compensated.

Take for example flying a plane. It can come down anytime. Pilots are paid adequately.

More importantly, don't just try to find a scapegoat or merely a reason for such incident. Be honest about it. If we have compromised, then do it right to a lid future incident. If all have been taken care off and it is the nature of the job. We have to live with it.

The rules and regulations are there.. TSR Training Safety Regulations and often they are violated by people.

I was in Germany many years back, a worker had refused to climb a ladder as there was no a second person to hold the ladder. So was he wrong?

 

[Yutaka Go]

The rules and regulations are there.. TSR Training Safety Regulations and often they are violated by people.

I was in Germany many years back, a worker had refused to climb a ladder as there was no a second person to hold the ladder. So was he wrong?

I have seen people checking heavy machine and equipment without turning off the power.
Some people lack safety conscious and don't believe in Murphy's Law - ("If anything can go wrong, it will")

 

[paesyl]

The rules and regulations are there.. TSR Training Safety Regulations and often they are violated by people.

I was in Germany many years back, a worker had refused to climb a ladder as there was no a second person to hold the ladder. So was he wrong?

In the army, even if the safety protocol states so, the worker will still be subject to defiance!

But went he falls....the investigation will report as breach of safety protocol and worker is responsible as safety is zoom down to individual.

However if that is a outfield, commanders at the sites will be question as well.

 

[rhino123]

Hope that the serviceman well. Pray go to him.

What really sadden me when I read the news sometime ago when it first surfaced in Yahoo! news, there are idiots who went off shooting their mouth saying something like, "he is a weapon master or something like that and still don't know how to follow procedure?" and still that idiot had huge number of thumbs up, this make me think... what the hell had become of our society, without knowing things for certain, that they started jumping into conclusion that it was the fault of the serviceman or whatever.

 

[silencer13]

Safety is just something these people talk about, but never practice.
It's really scary how safety is taken for granted in NS.

I still vividly remember my BMT recourse in the Guards unit.
I have a shoulder that dislocates very easily, so when it came to grenade throwing I asked to be excused from throwing.
But the OC, probably eager to maintain a 100% record, used all sorts of methods to force me to throw.
In the end totally against my will, I was forced to throw the live grenade. Imagine this - my shoulder is so bad, it can dislocate just by putting on clothes. We were all damn lucky nothing happened that day, save for a bad memory for me.

If a mishap happened then, what would have been the result? Just my parents getting $2,000 and everything swept under the rug?
I can imagine a lot of these "safety lapses" are just like that.

 

[zaren]

sad news....a fund raising effort would be a good gesture to help his family. hopefully insurance and MINDEF compensation/aid will help as well.

 

[9V-Orion Images]

Safety is just something these people talk about, but never practice.
It's really scary how safety is taken for granted in NS.

I still vividly remember my BMT recourse in the Guards unit.
I have a shoulder that dislocates very easily, so when it came to grenade throwing I asked to be excused from throwing.
But the OC, probably eager to maintain a 100% record, used all sorts of methods to force me to throw.
In the end totally against my will, I was forced to throw the live grenade. Imagine this - my shoulder is so bad, it can dislocate just by putting on clothes. We were all damn lucky nothing happened that day, save for a bad memory for me.

If a mishap happened then, what would have been the result? Just my parents getting $2,000 and everything swept under the rug?
I can imagine a lot of these "safety lapses" are just like that.

Hmm, even during my time. No one was forced to throw a live grenade or enter the tear gas chamber in BMT if they are not comfortable with it. Just have to declare sweaty palms and asthma to our PC even without a valid medical excuse from the MO as they close one eye. Your OC must be extremely seow on and garang for Best Infantry Unit.

Read plenty of safety lapses including but not limited to (if memory serves me right)...

• Signaller rebroadcasting station getting struck by lightning that wasn't properly grounded electrocuting all inside,
  
  
• Armoured Infantries (AIs) taking a Bionix IFV for a joy ride GTA style over Camp Growl or Samuel Hill Camp during Exercise Wallaby,
  
  
• Land Rover in Exercise Starlight whose AN-VRC antenna contacted with overhead HVAC electrical power transmission line electrocuting all inside,
  
  
• Plenty of misfirings such as an officer attempting to clear a jammed 7.62mm FN MAG GPMG or 12.7mm CIS .50 cal MG by hammering it repeatedly resulting in the round being accidentally discharged killing his men,
  
  
• Numerous A vehicles overturned crushing the vehicle commander's skull along with limps of tank crews maimed after being caught in rotating turret or the continuous tracks / road wheels and breech of the recoiling main gun after firing...

... and many others.

 

[ricohflex]

Bad accident. He is young and to lose both legs, left hand and 3 fingers of remaining hand is terrible. The pain must be unbearable.
Of course no one wants accidents to happen.

Guess the rope they mentioned is a steel cable and for it to cut like that, someone must have activated the motor winch.

 

[rhino123]

Safety is just something these people talk about, but never practice.
It's really scary how safety is taken for granted in NS.

I still vividly remember my BMT recourse in the Guards unit.
I have a shoulder that dislocates very easily, so when it came to grenade throwing I asked to be excused from throwing.
But the OC, probably eager to maintain a 100% record, used all sorts of methods to force me to throw.
In the end totally against my will, I was forced to throw the live grenade. Imagine this - my shoulder is so bad, it can dislocate just by putting on clothes. We were all damn lucky nothing happened that day, save for a bad memory for me.

If a mishap happened then, what would have been the result? Just my parents getting $2,000 and everything swept under the rug?
I can imagine a lot of these "safety lapses" are just like that.

To be fair, did you have any medical documents to proof that your shoulder could dislocate easily? You must have already pass the medical examination to be qualify for the Guards unit (PES A and PES B) so it is natural that your sergeant, lieutanent, OC and CO would take it that you are fit enough for the training.

If your shoulder is that easily dislocate, then you should at least spent some money to go to the specialist and had your shoulder examine, then produce a letter of excuse to your instructor. I believe if they still force you to do the stunt, you could approach your OO, etc etc. Take care of yourself, because no one is going to take care of you.

 

[silencer13]

To be fair, did you have any medical documents to proof that your shoulder could dislocate easily? You must have already pass the medical examination to be qualify for the Guards unit (PES A and PES B) so it is natural that your sergeant, lieutanent, OC and CO would take it that you are fit enough for the training.

If your shoulder is that easily dislocate, then you should at least spent some money to go to the specialist and had your shoulder examine, then produce a letter of excuse to your instructor. I believe if they still force you to do the stunt, you could approach your OO, etc etc. Take care of yourself, because no one is going to take care of you.

I was Pes C2 at that time due to the dislocated shoulder.
This was my BMT recourse, therefore it was conducted by a Guards unit and not a normal BMT school, but most of the "recruits" were Pes B or worse.

Letter of excuse? I had something even better - I dislocated my shoulder during my first BMT just doing warm ups.
I walked up to my PTI with shoulder dislocated (and loads of pain), told him my shoulder dislocated and need to go see MO. He didn't believe me, of course. Probably never seen a dislocated shoulder before.

I walked, accompanied by a sergent all the way to the MO, had him confirm my dislocation then he and a medic had to force it back into the socket because it had been out of the socket for so long. (at least an hour)
3 weeks after that I was downgraded to Pes C2.
Usually arm injury is only given C1, so you can see how bad it was to be C2 perm.

And you know the funny thing? All that time I could have easily put the shoulder back in the socket (just suffer pain and soreness for a few days), but I had to do the whole charade just to "prove" I had a shoulder dislocation problem.

haha, and I still remember my MO was CPT Vincent Cheong, the most siao on MO in the whole Nee Soon Camp. He had a reputation of NOT giving MC.

 

[rhino123]

I was Pes C2 at that time due to the dislocated shoulder.
This was my BMT recourse, therefore it was conducted by a Guards unit and not a normal BMT school, but most of the "recruits" were Pes B or worse.

Letter of excuse? I had something even better - I dislocated my shoulder during my first BMT just doing warm ups.
I walked up to my PTI with shoulder dislocated (and loads of pain), told him my shoulder dislocated and need to go see MO. He didn't believe me, of course. Probably never seen a dislocated shoulder before.

I walked, accompanied by a sergent all the way to the MO, had him confirm my dislocation then he and a medic had to force it back into the socket because it had been out of the socket for so long. (at least an hour)
3 weeks after that I was downgraded to Pes C2.
Usually arm injury is only given C1, so you can see how bad it was to be C2 perm.

And you know the funny thing? All that time I could have easily put the shoulder back in the socket (just suffer pain and soreness for a few days), but I had to do the whole charade just to "prove" I had a shoulder dislocation problem.

haha, and I still remember my MO was CPT Vincent Cheong, the most siao on MO in the whole Nee Soon Camp. He had a reputation of NOT giving MC.

Sorry... By dislocating your shoulder in your first BMT and the pain you go through was actually not enough in the Army. You know what, most MO are actually NSF like yourself and myself, and I don't really trust dicks about them. I mean, I encounter before first hand, when I had really bad food poisoning and my S1 gave me permission to go to the MO. The first question that **** ask was, "What Vocation are you?" I mean, they gave MC or what depending on which vocation you are, if you are a clerk, forget about MC, you are just malingering.

It was already deeply imbedded into the mind of sergeants and lieutanents (at least during my times) that recruits, privates... even corporals will malinger in whatever ways and means to escape duties.And they disregard all the complains that we throw at them.

So when I say, you have to take care of yourself, I really mean, get a specialist letter outside. MO and OC are scare **** of this type of letter, when you flash it in front of them, they would have no choice but to give in, or unless they had the guts to challenge the specialists outside. Don't expect the army to keep a record and even if they did, the new OC and what would not care to look for these records.

 

[zhixun]

Do also refer to the other thread asking help for blood donation.