We are Passionate and Nice Photographers / Videographers


catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
21,903
46
48
Punggol, Singapore
www.foto-u.com
#1
Came across this video, which I find the scene is so deja vu, although this is from a graphic designer sharing his experience working as a freelancer, but his encounter is so similar to many photographers and videographers here.

many of us start out inexperience, we are ignorance about the actual expenses that cost us to produce a piece of work for our clients, even we do, most of us also find it very hard or don't know how to put across why we charge X amount of $ for some "simple" work.
we are passionate about what we do and really nice to people who like our works, but this is how many others take it this way.

Thank you for all the response & advice, we have found a nice photographer for the job above.
Thread closed,
Stage Preformances Photographer

Thank you for those who showed interest, for your views, funny comments and one not so funny comment. I am closing this thread. I have found a nice passionate photographer.
Freelance Photographer required for an private event


We don't have to put up with such nonsenses, if we want to put food on the table for our family, want to take pride of our work, charge a price that reflects our self worth, on top of our expenses, profits, and stand firm.

[video=youtube;grcnDA9l3qc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcnDA9l3qc[/video]



PS: I understand members get really upset whenever seeing service wanted threads show up with petite budgets, but posting comments in such threads are generally don't end well, so we don't welcome discussions in service wanted thread.

but I think the message in this video sum up very well, how about just share this video in such threads and shut up?
 

pettypoh

Deregistered
Oct 10, 2010
520
0
0
singapore
#2
good video =) brings out the hard truths in the (i guess) "creative / services" industry?

i feel "goods" are generally easier to price than "services", probably 'coz pricing is more widely accessible and the product is already there for people to see and touch so the buyers know exactly what they are getting. problem with services is that clients only really see the end product after completion, so it's the previous works (portfolio) and branding that sort of determines acceptable price charged.

previously (many many many years ago), i have also felt that photography (as a service) was "expensive", but it's only after meeting many wonderful and passionate people and seeing excellent works, understanding the time, effort, preparations, skill, knowledge, equipments, manpower and other costs that are needed to create ONE good final "product", i have come to understand that this is a service that cannot be determined by the no. of hours spent on this one project, the pricing should be based on the hundreds and thousands of hours spent prior to and in preparation for this one project, and that's what the client is really getting.
 

JasonB

Deregistered
Jun 2, 2009
871
9
0
#3
Professional circles and groups (not necessary official ones, but your group of friends) can keep a black list. There will come a day where there will be pay back time to these people.

The world is round, what goes around comes around.
 

Agetan

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2004
4,669
15
38
www.tomato.sg
#4
Understand the frustration but I prefer to find solution to a problem.

No matter how well our intention is, trying to help, most prefer to learn it the hard way. So be it. It degrade the community but nothing that we can do about it.

Life isn't fun if you are dictate by clients what to do.

The solution that I give myself is to charge at a fee that will sustained my lifestyle and allow me to have time to enjoy the process while having time for my family. This is another way people can do, whether they choose it or not, it is up to them.


Hart
 

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sjackal

Senior Member
Jul 9, 2008
4,490
10
38
#5
Understand the frustration but I prefer to find solution to a problem.

No matter how well our intention is, trying to help, most prefer to learn it the hard way. So be it. It degrade the community but nothing that we can do about it.

Life isn't fun if you are dictate by clients what to do.

The solution that I give myself is to charge at a fee that will sustained my lifestyle and allow me to have time to enjoy the process while having time for my family. This is another way people can do, whether they choose it or not, it is up to them.


Hart
It will not work with these people.

Because the people who come here to look for cheap deals are exactly that, looking for cheap photographers. They were never the professional's potential client in the very first place.

The people who are responding to them are also exactly that...

Because they are not reliant on photography for a living. They are just having a hobby so they won't be considering to charge a fee to sustain their livelihood and still have time with family, this is their free time, and they are getting a little money while doing their hobby.

When they on the whole, keep doing that, it makes the pro photography market smaller. I think the way to go is to encourage amateur photographers themselves too that, when they start taking work away from the professionals, they have a fiscal responsibility to the community to give back and by giving back means to keep the market healthy and not taking on free or unacceptable prices even for amateur levels.
 

Dec 12, 2012
871
9
0
Singapore
#6
Fair proposal, sjakal. But realistically, it's hard to implement because there is no "standard" price list even for the well meaning amateurs to follow.

Unless the moderators step in to attach a RRP (recommended retail price) for the services wanted.

If the moderators do that, however, and the price is close enough to a professional's asking price, the prospective client will then be inclined to choose the professional over the amateur. This will then result in a situation where the amateur loses out.
 

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catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
21,903
46
48
Punggol, Singapore
www.foto-u.com
#7
Fair proposal, sjakal. But realistically, it's hard to implement because there is no "standard" price list even for the well meaning amateurs to follow.

Unless the moderators step in to attach a RRP (recommended retail price) for the services wanted.

If the moderators do that, however, and the price is close enough to a professional's asking price, the prospective client will then be inclined to choose the professional over the amateur. This will then result in a situation where the amateur loses out.
FYI, this is consider price fixing (please see 27.2.12), and such practise is not acceptable here (as in locally, not referring to this forum).

BTW, there are tones of information and tools to help photographers to work out their charges, but what most people do is just simply copy the pricing from another photographer with similar standard, than they give some discount and offer it as their own price. So tell me, if the answer is not correct in the first place, how wrong will that be after a few generations of copy and paste?

Anyway, when photographers they themselves can't believe in the pricing they should charging, how are they going to convince their client/customers to accept the price is fair and just?
 

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sjackal

Senior Member
Jul 9, 2008
4,490
10
38
#8
FYI, this is consider price fixing (please see 27.2.12), and such practise is not acceptable here (as in locally, not referring to this forum).

BTW, there are tones of information and tools to help photographers to work out their charges, but what most people do is just simply copy the pricing from another photographer with similar standard, than they give some discount and offer it as their own price. So tell me, if the answer is not correct in the first place, how wrong will that be after a few generations of copy and paste?

Anyway, when photographers they themselves can't believe in the pricing they should charging, how are they going to convince their client/customers to accept the price is fair and just?
My general gauge is to consider if I can afford myself, if I can, means I am too cheap. If I cannot, then I am in the right direction.

Take the Stage Performance thread example, JasonB pointed out the specialized gear requirement, which I agreed. If the photographer can afford such gears, (even rental is not cheap), then that kind of pay is way too low. The TS wants 10 hours per day over a course of 7 days (that is a quarter of a month) paying only a measly $250. Gear rental prices plus meals and transport already over. TS still want to know your years of experience and he even expect to have choices of candidates for him to choose. That is the kind of mentality these people come in with. Job taker is providing free labor after deducting cost and time. We haven't consider post production time needed yet. And we have to account for risk for personal lost if you are using personal gear, and insurance if you are using rental gear. There are probably **** to deal with. History has shown in many past threads how people do cheap jobs and get complained and burned. The cheaper you are, the less respect you command and the more people fault your mistakes. It is just common social conditioning. Another thing, are they going to pay on the spot, or are you going to play debt collector? If they don't pay, what can you do? Professionals will always try to lock in a higher price to made the risk worthwhile, and also set the scene for further jobs, all working towards growing the market. Amateurs do the exact opposite.

JMH2C. Don't frame me.
 

Agetan

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2004
4,669
15
38
www.tomato.sg
#9
As professional, the biggest challenge is to put your name to the right audience at the right time. I would rather not to worry about people who don't want to pay pro rates to get things done properly or people doing it as a hobby. Neither of them should be your competition.

It is a sad situation that value of photography is not getting better but nonetheless we just have to do our best to keep our business in the optimum condition.

Spending time talking to people who don't understand is like talking to a wall... I rather use my time more productively and I encourage those who make a living look beyond that and spend time working on their business.

Regards,

Hart
 

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