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VR Usage


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wabbitz

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Mar 9, 2004
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#1
hey guys

I am a bit confused on using the VR lens. How does the VR function work? Read the manuals but don't shed much light.
Once u half depress the shutter button, u can hear the motor run like zzz.zzz.zzz...then a thud sound.

Some people told me to shoot while the VR motor is in action. (during the zzz zzz zz sound)
some people told me to shoot AFTER the VR motor stops. (after the thud sound)

Anyone here can shed some advice?????

Blur.....
:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
 

gadrian

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May 24, 2003
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#2
wabbitz said:
hey guys

I am a bit confused on using the VR lens. How does the VR function work? Read the manuals but don't shed much light.
Once u half depress the shutter button, u can hear the motor run like zzz.zzz.zzz...then a thud sound.

Some people told me to shoot while the VR motor is in action. (during the zzz zzz zz sound)
some people told me to shoot AFTER the VR motor stops. (after the thud sound)

Anyone here can shed some advice?????

Blur.....
:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
hehe.. technically you will not be able to fire the shutter when the VR is still stabilizing.. the shutter will fire only when VR is stabilized.. coz the focus lock will not be achieve during stabilizing..

My take on the issue.. just keep your finger on the shutter release button.. the split second of stabilazation and shutter release is almost as fast as your D70/D100 startup..

Secondly.. by the time you seeemingly can hear the VR lock.. ehh imagine you are shooting low light in a rock concert.. or a jazz band in a bar.. (dont think you can even here it) but you can see it through the viewfinder.. you VR will start working again.. to stabilize the image..

For better VR usage.. I actually perfer the ACTIVE VR compare to Normal..

Of coz.. VR on active tends to suck more juice.. but what the heck.. it works..
 

Dennis

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Jan 24, 2002
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#3
Mmm while using my 24-120 VR lens I find that if I don't wait long enough for the VR to stabilized the photo does not comes out sharp. Maybe it can fire while still stabilizing. BTW you are suppose to shoot only after it has stabilized. What I have not understood is when you mount it on a tripot why should the VR be off as stated on the manual?. I tested it with VR on and off and it look the same to me !!. If you handhold but have a rock steady hands while shooting should you switch off VR ??.
 

gadrian

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#4
Dennis said:
Mmm while using my 24-120 VR lens I find that if I don't wait long enough for the VR to stabilized the photo does not comes out sharp. Maybe it can fire while still stabilizing. BTW you are suppose to shoot only after it has stabilized. What I have not understood is when you mount it on a tripot why should the VR be off as stated on the manual?. I tested it with VR on and off and it look the same to me !!. If you handhold but have a rock steady hands while shooting should you switch off VR ??.
Hmm to be honest.. I have never turned of VR even when my lens or camera body is mounted on a tripod..
 

wabbitz

New Member
Mar 9, 2004
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#5
ok so u shoot after or before motor stops?

Still blur leh!

thanks all

:)
 

Clown

Moderator
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Mar 24, 2003
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#7
maybe 70 200 can.. but the 24 120 must turn off VR when on tripod. or the pics CONFIRM blur.. i made the mistake a few times liao.
 

airforce1

Senior Member
Aug 18, 2003
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#9
using VR lens do we need to change any of the custom setting on D100? Please help.
 

Sree

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Dec 17, 2003
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#10
Dennis said:
Mmm while using my 24-120 VR lens I find that if I don't wait long enough for the VR to stabilized the photo does not comes out sharp. Maybe it can fire while still stabilizing. BTW you are suppose to shoot only after it has stabilized. What I have not understood is when you mount it on a tripot why should the VR be off as stated on the manual?. I tested it with VR on and off and it look the same to me !!. If you handhold but have a rock steady hands while shooting should you switch off VR ??.
Dennis, the aim of the VR is to compensate for movement/vibrations on the camera. Thus when hand-holding we normally leave it on to gain about 3 f-stops. The VR circuitry does some compensatory internal vibrations.

Now once you put it on a tripod, it is normal to assume all the above-mentioned movements no longer exist (unless you are using a el-cheapo tripod which is not steady) thus you would turn the VR off. Otherwise if you are on a rock-steady tripod, the VR mechanisms will actually cause blurring of your image.

As I mentioned, if you use a less than solid (read expensive I guess) tripod, then you will probably will find the VR does help give you sharp images (as the tripod may still induce some movement). Of course in windy conditions even with tripod, it may be wise to leave VR on.

All of the above is based on extensive research and readings prior to purchasing my first VR lens yesterday (70-200mm/F2.8) :). Great lens but I need to practice and learn how to use it optimally.

Adrian I know you use active all the time. I'm in no way implying that your tripod is not one of the more expensive models :) :) There is still a fair bit about VR usage which is still unclear even to the "expert" photographers. I do wish to know more about good handling practices and VR usage and look forward to your inputs.

I am going to Frasier's Hill this w/end and hope to take some good bird shots with the 70-200 + TC-20EII combo. I saw the 200-400/F4 VR at Lords but at approx $9200 its a wee bit out of my budget. I would love to get it in about 1-2 years, hopefully.
 

Dennis

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Jan 24, 2002
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#11
How does the VR blurr the picture when mounted on a tripot ?.
It is suppose to compensate so no movement it should not compensate !!.
If this is the case back to my question, if you can hand hold a camera rock steady do you need to switch off VR ?.

Since VR will cause picture to be blurr when rock steady maybe the question should be how much "shaking" is necessary for VR to work for you instead of against you. Also what about shutter speed ?. Supposing you are shooting at 1/500 and above thus reducing camera shake tendency do you still need VR and if leave on does it affect the picture ?. :dunno:

BTW I have notice that while using the 24-120 and while trying to hold the camera steady as much as I can results in "blurr" picture. I don't know how to describe it but the the picture just does not comes out "sharp" but it is not blurr as in camera shake, more like softness which should not occur. 70-200 gives less of this problem.
Maybe not all VR are the same and the explanation from Nikon brouchers are too simplistic to explain everything. Oh and what about Canon's IS system :D

Untill the mystery of the VR is concretely explained, guess we are all still learning the intricacies of making VR work for us.


Sree said:
Dennis, the aim of the VR is to compensate for movement/vibrations on the camera. Thus when hand-holding we normally leave it on to gain about 3 f-stops. The VR circuitry does some compensatory internal vibrations.

Now once you put it on a tripod, it is normal to assume all the above-mentioned movements no longer exist (unless you are using a el-cheapo tripod which is not steady) thus you would turn the VR off. Otherwise if you are on a rock-steady tripod, the VR mechanisms will actually cause blurring of your image.

As I mentioned, if you use a less than solid (read expensive I guess) tripod, then you will probably will find the VR does help give you sharp images (as the tripod may still induce some movement). Of course in windy conditions even with tripod, it may be wise to leave VR on.

All of the above is based on extensive research and readings prior to purchasing my first VR lens yesterday (70-200mm/F2.8) :). Great lens but I need to practice and learn how to use it optimally.

Adrian I know you use active all the time. I'm in no way implying that your tripod is not one of the more expensive models :) :) There is still a fair bit about VR usage which is still unclear even to the "expert" photographers. I do wish to know more about good handling practices and VR usage and look forward to your inputs.

I am going to Frasier's Hill this w/end and hope to take some good bird shots with the 70-200 + TC-20EII combo. I saw the 200-400/F4 VR at Lords but at approx $9200 its a wee bit out of my budget. I would love to get it in about 1-2 years, hopefully.
 

#12
Another quote from this website that VR should be turned off when mounted on a steady tripod..
"If you put the lens on a tripod, turn VR OFF. And even though Nikon suggests that you leave it ON when the lens is mounted on a monopod, if your monopod is reasonably steady, the VR should probably be OFF. (Of course, if you have a shaky tripod, maybe you should have VR ON, at least until you get a better tripod.)"
http://www.bythom.com/80400VRlens.htm

Btw, does the manual of the VR lens tell you that you should turn off VR when mounted on tripod or nobody read the manual at all ? :dunno:
 

gadrian

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May 24, 2003
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#14
Sree said:
Adrian I know you use active all the time. I'm in no way implying that your tripod is not one of the more expensive models :) :) There is still a fair bit about VR usage which is still unclear even to the "expert" photographers. I do wish to know more about good handling practices and VR usage and look forward to your inputs.
What you say.. my tripod is lousy huh.. wah liao.. hehe.. kidding.. :angel:

Nikon's manual says.. when the lens is mounted on a tripod, set the vibration reduction ON/OFF switch to OFF. Howver, set the switch to ON when using a tripod without securing the tripod head, or when using a monopod..

I find this statement rather contradictory of its self.. when using a monopod.. the vibration (vertical) is almost gone.. what you are left with is vibrations on the horizontal axis.. that would be the result of say panning.. at which Active mode would be more suited.

I have through lack of attentivity left my 70-200 on Active mode while mounted to my tripod.. and taken many architectural details with it.. and I still get tack sharp images..

VR works on the number of vibrations per given time frame and the force of the vibrations to come to a central focal point that is considered sharp. Note: Even with VR you can still get a certain level of softness, coz the VR mech is not able to come to an equilibrium. As such is how the active mode works.. it is able to detect vertical vibrations of a moving vehicle.. and thus mainly compensates for horizontal vibrations. the gyroscope mech is able to find a central point of equilibrium.

As for using with a tripod.. it is my take that without the vibration.. the equilibrium cannot be found.. thus the vibration reduction mech is not able to find a equilibrium point for sharp focus. Hence when taking images with a rock steady tripod causes blur images.. Strangely not something I have experienced on my 70-200.. Perhaps is because of my constant moving of the tripod head that helps to give the necessary vibration.

I could be wrong about how VR works. but this is my take..

Dennis said:
Supposing you are shooting at 1/500 and above thus reducing camera shake tendency do you still need VR and if leave on does it affect the picture ?.
Yes.. VR is a good thing to have on.. remember.. the magic formula.. to get sharp images is to use an shutter speed that is 2 x the focal lenght.. so lets say at 200mm you minimum shutter speed should be 1/400.. here closer to 1/500.. however due to "our not so rock solid" hands.. there can be a level of vibration that is still obvious in the image.. at 200mm vibrations are magnified and I still believe the VR mech can help reduce this problem.
 

Dec 17, 2003
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#16
Dennis said:
How does the VR blurr the picture when mounted on a tripot ?.
It is suppose to compensate so no movement it should not compensate !!.
If this is the case back to my question, if you can hand hold a camera rock steady do you need to switch off VR ?.
As I understand it, the VR may introduce blur in this situation by “searching” for motion not present. To elaborate, when on a steady tripod the VR mechanism is not able to come to an equilibrium and continues its search when you take your shot. Thus a blurred picture. This is my take on it.

I remember reading in a Panasonic forum that with the FZ1 (has IS === VR) some users recommended to shake the camera a bit in order to get tack sharp images. Go figure!
 

Dec 17, 2003
213
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16
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#17
Oh I almost forgot, the following link points to an excellent summary of VR as used by Nikon (at least for 80-400mm VR)

http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/society/tec-rep/tr8-vr_e.htm

Also take a look at this interesting interview with one of the designers of the 70-200mm/F2.8 VR lens. Bonus is a picture of the actual "heart" of the VR mechanism.

http://nikonimaging.com/global/technology/scene/03/

VR compensates for camera shake but not subject shake. As someone mentioned in a thread I once read, to compensate for the latter you need a gun.

Enjoy!
 

Dennis

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Jan 24, 2002
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#18
Wah after all the heavy load of reading still cannot truly say at which situation one should turn on VR and when not to and maybe not all VR are designed to be the same. I believe VR may be used all the time with long focal length but not at the short end thus 70-200 VR seems to be better compared to 24-120. Mmmm now that may be why most say the 24-120 is not sharp at the wide end but OK at the longer end. Maybe Nikon should design VR to be auto at different focal length since they are already using some kind of algorithem. Say at 24 it should be shut down at high shutter speed but on at low shutter speed etc. Should find a day to shoot with the VR off / on / with tripot / without tripot etc and decide for myself how the lens behave. Anyone game to do so. :dunno:
 

espn

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Dec 20, 2002
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#19
Ok... bottom line is....

Do whatever it takes to get your shot. Be it VR on/off on a tripod, as long as it can take shots and it turns out good, it's the photographer, not the VR. :devil:

:cheers:

So keep shooting!
 

gadrian

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May 24, 2003
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#20
Dennis said:
Wah after all the heavy load of reading still cannot truly say at which situation one should turn on VR and when not to and maybe not all VR are designed to be the same. I believe VR may be used all the time with long focal length but not at the short end thus 70-200 VR seems to be better compared to 24-120. Mmmm now that may be why most say the 24-120 is not sharp at the wide end but OK at the longer end. Maybe Nikon should design VR to be auto at different focal length since they are already using some kind of algorithem. Say at 24 it should be shut down at high shutter speed but on at low shutter speed etc. Should find a day to shoot with the VR off / on / with tripot / without tripot etc and decide for myself how the lens behave. Anyone game to do so. :dunno:
Dennis.. the 24-120 AFS-VR's predecessor has the similar optical design. The flaw is not in the VR.. but in the optical design.. It is a known working fact that at 24mm anthing with an aperture of f/5.6 or bigger (f/4.5 or f/3.5) will produce soft images on the 24-120... recommended aperture is f/8. This problem disappears when the lens passes the 35mm mark.

Sree is right.. and echo's my respond.. by turning off VR.. the VR mech aligns the optics to a neutral position. VR works on responding to motion.. again.. as I mentioned..

"VR works on the number of vibrations per given time frame and the force of the vibrations to come to a central focal point that is considered sharp. Note: Even with VR you can still get a certain level of softness, coz the VR mech is not able to come to an equilibrium. As such is how the active mode works.. it is able to detect vertical vibrations of a moving vehicle.. and thus mainly compensates for horizontal vibrations. the gyroscope mech is able to find a central point of equilibrium"

espn said:
Ok... bottom line is....

Do whatever it takes to get your shot. Be it VR on/off on a tripod, as long as it can take shots and it turns out good, it's the photographer, not the VR.
IGNORING!!! We are trying to understand the technology behind the optics.. and it doesnt have any relevance to being a photographer.. :p
 

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