using 35mm f1.4 on crop for bokeh portraits - forget it!


sfoto100

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2009
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#1
Hi

I think many of us cannot justify the cost of buying a FF camera. So what can you do if u like full body bokeh portrait ? the natural choice will be 35mm f1.4. Samyang is the cheapest option here.

But I don't really like the bokeh i see in the images taken using a 35mm f1.4, even on a FF like 5D.

For bokeh, the longer focal length is still the best... so the FF or even medium format, large format clearly has the advantage here for shallow depth of field images.

see for yourself:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinematic/5958279940/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114251169/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114252145/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114248903/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114811362/

this of course should applies to all 35mm lens , not just Samyang.
 

sinned79

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2009
10,868
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www.aboutlove.sg
#2
i think this applies to samyang only.

the bokeh should be the same even on FF and crop.

both samyang glass and canon glass is different, bokeh will be different as well.

the number of blades for the two is different too if i am not wrong, this blades will affect the bokeh.
 

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Rashkae

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2005
19,105
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#3
What's a "bokeh portrait"?

Sounds like the camera shop salesman, anyhow using the word bokeh. :p
 

sfoto100

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2009
2,092
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#5
i think this applies to samyang only.

the bokeh should be the same even on FF and crop.

both samyang glass and canon glass is different, bokeh will be different as well.

the number of blades (or elements if u call it) for the two is different too if i am not wrong, this blades will affect the bokeh.
i mean the blurr is not enough.. unlike those produce by longer focal length..

see when u free i try your 35mm to test it out.
 

Rashkae

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2005
19,105
12
0
#6
photo with bokeh lor.
You mean photo with a blurred background. "Photo with bokeh" is also wrong (since bokeh is a description of the quality of blur, not blur itself) and can apply to any image that has any section blurred, no matter how little.
 

sfoto100

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2009
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#7
You mean photo with a blurred background. "Photo with bokeh" is also wrong (since bokeh is a description of the quality of blur, not blur itself) and can apply to any image that has any section blurred, no matter how little.
oh i see. tks alot.. i will remember this when i become camera salesman next time :)
 

ziploc

New Member
Jan 17, 2002
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Snoopyland
#8
Hi

I think many of us cannot justify the cost of buying a FF camera. So what can you do if u like full body bokeh portrait ? the natural choice will be 35mm f1.4. Samyang is the cheapest option here.

But I don't really like the bokeh i see in the images taken using a 35mm f1.4, even on a FF like 5D.

For bokeh, the longer focal length is still the best... so the FF or even medium format, large format clearly has the advantage here for shallow depth of field images.

see for yourself:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinematic/5958279940/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114251169/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114252145/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114248903/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114811362/

this of course should applies to all 35mm lens , not just Samyang.
There are basically 2 factors here: DOF and perspective compression. DOF is deeper at wide angle and hence you get less background blur. Similarly, longer focal length magnifies the background resulting in larger "dots" and hence looks more blur. So yes, to acheive blurrer background you need to use longer lenses. :)
 

daredevil123

Moderator
Staff member
Oct 25, 2005
21,657
68
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lil red dot
#9
sfoto100 said:
i mean the blurr is not enough.. unlike those produce by longer focal length..

see when u free i try your 35mm to test it out.
Actually the difference in the amount of background blur is caused by subject to camera distance. If your camera is at the same distance from subject even if you swap to a FF the amount of background blur is try same. But when on the FF, to get the same size of the subject in the frame, you have to move in closer. That decrease in subject to camera distance is the reason why you get more background blur.
 

sfoto100

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2009
2,092
0
36
#10
Actually the difference in the amount of background blur is caused by subject to camera distance. If your camera is at the same distance from subject even if you swap to a FF the amount of background blur is try same. But when on the FF, to get the same size of the subject in the frame, you have to move in closer. That decrease in subject to camera distance is the reason why you get more background blur.
your signature says MR rocks!!

u got yourself some MF camera? haha
 

daredevil123

Moderator
Staff member
Oct 25, 2005
21,657
68
48
lil red dot
#13
sfoto100 said:
tks. learn something new today :)
Longer focal length also gives you more compression. That is why some portrait photographers like to use long lenses.
 

alantkh

Deregistered
Jun 16, 2009
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#14
alamak, I just spent 2k+ on the 35mm f1.4....

waste my money #$#!%
 

alantkh

Deregistered
Jun 16, 2009
786
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#16
Why did you buy it? There must be a good reason.
I bought it to shoot portraits of my family on my upcoming Trip.

I have the 14-24mm and 70-200mm so the 35mm is a nice addition. Frankly, when I buy 35mm f1.4, the intention is not to blur the background into oblivion. One of the idea of taking travel portraits for me is the background. It is nice to blur the background a little so the subject pops out though. At 35mm and shooting full body portraits, I THINK I might need f1.4 to get the kind of blur I want. Especially sometimes my subject don't really fill up the frame as I want to show a bit more of the places I go...

I think the 35mm f1.4 is a very unique lens, hopefullly it will give me a different kind of picture. The 14-24mm and 70-200mm are very distinctive lens.
 

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sinned79

Senior Member
Jun 18, 2009
10,868
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0
Singapore
www.aboutlove.sg
#17
alantkh said:
I bought it to shoot portraits of my family on my upcoming Trip.

I have the 14-24mm and 70-200mm so the 35mm is a nice addition. Frankly, when I buy 35mm f1.4, the intention is not to blur the background into oblivion. One of the idea of taking travel portraits for me is the background. It is nice to blur the background a little so the subject pops out though. At 35mm and shooting full body portraits, I THINK I might need f1.4 to get the kind of blur I want. Especially sometimes my subject don't really fill up the frame as I want to show a bit more of the places I go...

I think the 35mm f1.4 is a very unique lens, hopefullly it will give me a different kind of picture. The 14-24mm and 70-200mm are very distinctive lens.
I am sure ur 35 wun disappoint u!
 

pinholecam

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 23, 2007
10,944
88
48
#18
Hi

I think many of us cannot justify the cost of buying a FF camera. So what can you do if u like full body bokeh portrait ? the natural choice will be 35mm f1.4. Samyang is the cheapest option here.

But I don't really like the bokeh i see in the images taken using a 35mm f1.4, even on a FF like 5D.

For bokeh, the longer focal length is still the best... so the FF or even medium format, large format clearly has the advantage here for shallow depth of field images.

see for yourself:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinematic/5958279940/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114251169/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114252145/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114248903/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsh78ph/6114811362/

this of course should applies to all 35mm lens , not just Samyang.

You don't need a lens.
You need a technique ;)

http://blog.buiphotography.com/2009/07/the-brenizer-method-explained-with-directions/


Its also good to just say that you want a shallow DOF portrait, rather than use the term now commonly abused here as 'bokeh shot', (bokeh is only referencing to the quality of the OOF rendering).
If you need shallow DOF, the factors are subject distance, aperture and bkgnd distance. (no guarantee that bokeh is 'good')
If bokeh is wanted (subjective as to what looks appealing), then it has something to do with lens design and bkgnd type.
 

SyncGuy

New Member
Sep 14, 2011
1,118
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Earth
#19
Hey, I'm quite a noob here but pertaining to your "bokeh" background with regards to background effect, I think it has got to do mostly with your aperture settings.

From what I understand how aperture settings work, the lower your f-stop, the more pronounced the background blurring is.

Therefore, I would think that you will need a higher f-stop? Too high and everything in the pic will be sharp, including the background along with your subject.

Forgive me if I'm wrong.. As I'm still learning too, I believe that you will need to fiddle and find a balance according to your requirement.
 

ahboy168

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2009
982
0
16
East
#20
Not all lens at same focus length and aperture, and assume all equal give the same amount of oof blur.
Normally, there is a reason why some lens are cheaper ...

Ot a bit,
Is it true that 300mmf5.6 >oof blur than 200mmf4 ?
Is there a formula to calculate ?
Assume distance between lens to subject to background same.
 

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