Untolerable behavior observed at Mandai Orchid Garden


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night86mare

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Aug 25, 2006
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#21
whether the flash is harmful or not to the bird's eyes, a bird is not just made up of eyes.

factors like stress should be taken into consideration. i am quite sure having sparkles of light fired at you when you least expect it is not good for the nerves.
 

RezzShaz

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May 5, 2009
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#22
i wish i was there...i'll be shooting them instead of the bird and maybe send to stomp...
at least can brag my picture in the paper;)
 

proteonXPR

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Dec 14, 2008
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#23
take more pictures of these people instead, and post them up here and everywhere, including edmw~

song dah!
 

stor

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#24
Fill in flash or full power flash on small little things are still not necessary in most cases. In fact most appealing photos, be it human or animals stands out from natural light source with no flash involved.

It is the stereotype type that thinks all details of that subject must be shown to achieve so called good results. If there are many photographers with fill in flash pointing at the bird, the effect of irritation and stress will still be present.



Sometimes flash is necessary and depends on how the photographers set the flash. Most of the time Fill flash is sufficient but not full power flash... The bird sure see "STARS"...
 

bengchiat

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Mar 14, 2008
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#25
at least the photographers didn't
threaten to use taser on them as in another thread involving humans :)

happen so i was there shooting a wedding.
saw them,
thot they r there for the flora.
 

zero o

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Aug 8, 2007
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#26
Given that so many feel strongly about this issue .. a concerned party or a group of concerned photographers can take the first step of writing to the relevant authorities to suggest a review of the usage of flash in these facilities and perhaps appropriate signs be put up @ strategic points to educate photographers.

This can be a sort of social responsibility drive that CS members can encourage in the local photographic community. Just a suggestion :)
 

liarliar

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May 13, 2007
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#27
Better if photos were taken. Like from the backs of the shooters showing how near or far the flashes were to the nests. We truely support unjust but we need to have a better understanding too of the situation at times.
 

alreadym3

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May 4, 2009
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#28
Given that so many feel strongly about this issue .. a concerned party or a group of concerned photographers can take the first step of writing to the relevant authorities to suggest a review of the usage of flash in these facilities and perhaps appropriate signs be put up @ strategic points to educate photographers.

This can be a sort of social responsibility drive that CS members can encourage in the local photographic community. Just a suggestion :)
I strongly agreed on this! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

commonjunks

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Jul 23, 2009
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#29
I could only pray that GOD send rain without any warning and all of their cameras/equipment get wet :devil:.
I am not sure even authorities can do any thing, it is human nature as if you try to stop them they will do that thing more. What can we do :dunno:.
 

kuanwk

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May 1, 2004
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#30
Saw them on sat morning. Lately there had been many cases of failed nesting or Chick died. In 90% of the cases, the person mentioned is involved. There is not much we can do because we got fired back when we approached them. One of them bombarded us with these phrases:

1. "Is the tree yours?"
2. "You are not my Father, I can do what I want."
3. "I'm not harassing the birds, in fact you are harassing me."
4. "You are a foreigner, this place is not yours"

We really dont know what we can do but to stop posting birds photos and not to disclose any nesting or even bird sightings.

But these are not stopping them because they can get info from a "certain" club.

:bheart:
wow,, they juz gave u permission to flash them for all you worth!

1) these ppl are obviously not yours, so you can blast your flash at them all you want.
2) they are obviously not your fathers, so you can blast your flash at them all you want.
3) you are no more harassing them than they are the bird, so you can blast your flash at them all you want. in fact they are harassing you with their words.
4) the place not theirs, so you can blast your flash at them all you want.

do have a heavy tripod handy tho.
bloody gangsters.
 

Mar 20, 2008
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#32
Their behaviour is reflective (pun intended) of our society. First class hardware, third-class behaviour :sweat:
 

garagez

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Dec 21, 2006
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#34
i tot shooting bird from afar with tele and no flash?

cheers
 

Garion

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#35
i tot shooting bird from afar with tele and no flash?

cheers
Flash can be used, albeit subjectively. There is still much controversy over proper use of flash in nature photography, especially for subjects like birds. Sometimes fill flash is needed to lighten shadows and give a better colour and a catchlight in the bird's eye. Usually bird photographers use a Fresnel lens device (see below) to help focus and "throw" their flash beam onto a smaller area over a longer distance. However, I have seen nature photographers abuse this by using Fresnel lens even when the bird is say less than 5-6m away or as in the above case mentioned by TS. The intense flash power strobed continuously for over several seconds at close range may be too overpowering for the bird in question, and may cause undue stress and disorientation.



There is high chance the nesting may fail if there is too much disturbance from human behaviour or activities which might cause parent birds to abandon the nest or chick, and the chick may starve to death or eaten by predator as a result.

Education can only do so much....that is why it is important for the veteran nature photographers to practice proper ethical behaviour in the field for newbies to follow...but if everyone cares only about getting a nice shot at the expense of subject's welfare, as seems to be the current trend now, then its a very sad world we live in indeed.
 

FireHouse

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Aug 1, 2008
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#36
Flash can be used, albeit subjectively. There is still much controversy over proper use of flash in nature photography, especially for subjects like birds. Sometimes fill flash is needed to lighten shadows and give a better colour and a catchlight in the bird's eye. Usually bird photographers use a Fresnel lens device (see below) to help focus and "throw" their flash beam onto a smaller area over a longer distance. However, I have seen nature photographers abuse this by using Fresnel lens even when the bird is say less than 5-6m away or as in the above case mentioned by TS. The intense flash power strobed continuously for over several seconds at close range may be too overpowering for the bird in question, and may cause undue stress and disorientation.



There is high chance the nesting may fail if there is too much disturbance from human behaviour or activities which might cause parent birds to abandon the nest or chick, and the chick may starve to death or eaten by predator as a result.


Education can only do so much....that is why it is important for the veteran nature photographers to practice proper ethical behaviour in the field for newbies to follow...but if everyone cares only about getting a nice shot at the expense of subject's welfare, as seems to be the current trend now, then its a very sad world we live in indeed.
Thanks Garion for the info on the use of Fresnel Lens on flash photography.:thumbsup:
It is indeed a very sad place where nature photography is concern. The biggest issue I have are the hypocrites that tells others what not to do but in practise are the first to do it. Sad indeed.
 

jelimon

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Jan 22, 2007
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#37
someone tell this to some of the underwater photogs, PLEASE..
i'm trying to find the humour in that...Ha Ha Ha. very funny.

one distinguishing aspect of uw photography from land is that, you must use a strobe (or two) if you go beyond a certain depth. No artificial light, no true colours. simple law of physics, and that's a severe limitation (and an expensive one) for us.

i've yet to see anyone firing continously into the eyes of marine animals. what i did encounter once, was an idiot firing her flash into the eye of a rare and shy sunfish. we endured 19 deg water and choppy waves to catch a glimpse of the sunfish and this brainless twit just scared it away "cos she wanted an eye shot". all it took was just that one firing to get everybody cursing underwater.

that said, the firing of strobes is just one of the concerns in harassing marine animals. have personally witnessed a lot more horrendous acts that have resulted in maimed or dead creatures. it's a can of worms really, but even the pros are doing it openly.
 

ZHAOZHAO82

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Nov 13, 2006
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#38
we can't stop more people to join the shoot right?
if everything has to talk about caring/loving, then why shoot? why must shoot with flash? how to capture good picture? in this world, how to please everyone?

the thread starter was at MOG for what? also photographing right? i dun believe he never use flash for photography. he shoot flower or what? even flower also has life la. he should use common sense before voice out.

why dun he complain National Geography works? didn't they use more than 10 flash at night to capture the bats ???
 

DeSwitch

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Oct 28, 2005
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#39
Bats dont really see with their eyes. They uses high pitch sound and its echoes to tell them what is ahead of them.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=704379

OK beside the piont, I think what TS wants to bring to our attention is the facts that the poor bird are being flashed continuously at full blast for long periods. I had seen the person mention and the way she shoot. Ya its a She. Those who just read this thread may not really uinderstand what is going on.

What we do is controlled lighting at -3ev or manually at 1/32 power if its back lighted. Garion, I had seen ppl misused the Fresnel device. latest flashlight can reach at least 50m so its not really needed. In position with good lighting, no flash is needed. In Nature photography, there are times we realy cant control the angle of natural light. You must understand that we cant move the subject or ask the subject to turn.


The statement below is directed only at the "SHE"
Use minimal flash and move on when you got your shots. Give the birds some breathing space. Dont camp there day after day to shoot the same thing. Unless you are damm lousy that after shooting 10k photos you still cant get a good one.
 

kcuf2

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Dec 29, 2005
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#40
So are you one of the airheads that i am referring to in the thread? if you are indeed one of them, I hope to meet u one day and let u have a taste of 8fps with my sb800 in your eyes.

if a person really really wanna use flash and if the conditions are really that bad, a few burst is enough. bursting at high speed for a long duration is totally unacceptable, and illogical.

If their skills is really that bad to the extend that they only have 1 keeper in 100 shots, they should just go home and practice shooting cups instead of trying out on living things, more so for baby wildlife that are just the size of one's finger.

at such close distance of 5-6m away, those group of ppl are pointing their flash heads directly at the birds and their nest, and behaving in a trigger happy manner. now that Deswitch has shown the pic of the flash extender, may i also add that one of the guys in the group had used the flash extender too.

and btw, dun go and bring national geographic into the picture. This thread is about wat happened in MOG, dun come into my thread and go off trail and causing my thread to close up.

we can't stop more people to join the shoot right?
if everything has to talk about caring/loving, then why shoot? why must shoot with flash? how to capture good picture? in this world, how to please everyone?

the thread starter was at MOG for what? also photographing right? i dun believe he never use flash for photography. he shoot flower or what? even flower also has life la. he should use common sense before voice out.

why dun he complain National Geography works? didn't they use more than 10 flash at night to capture the bats ???
 

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