TS-E 17mm versus TS-E 24mm (II)

[emlee]

Hi
(I searched and cannot find this topic, so if it already exists, slap me and point me to the discussion.)

I am considering the Canon TS-E wide angle lens. Without much thought, my first preference was with the 17mm. However, the fact that I cannot use filters on the lens, and the higher price tag is putting me off a little. Hence I started reading up on the TS-E 24mm and my, the review was fantastic.

While true, I do have reservations on the TS-E 24mm: is it wide enough, I am used to having 17mm; with the shift, what the equivalent focal length of the effective image, etc.

So I am seeking for any advise, or information CSers have on any of these:
1) any idea what is the effective focal length of the TS-E 24mm, given the larger image circle? [I am secretly hoping it is 17mm or less]
2) is there any current users of the TS-E 24mm or the Nikon PC 24mm lenses? Can share with me your experience on this lens's angle: is it wide enough? Do you frequently find that you cannot cover the scape with the limited 24mm angle?
3) any users of the current TS-E 17mm lens: can share with me if the lack of ability to use front fliters have hindered your works? What kind of works do you do most?
4) finally [insanely], any users who has BOTH the TS-E 17mm and the TS-E 24mm: can you share with me what are the difference in applications between the 2 lenses? What are the limitations of the 24mm that caused you to get the 17mm as well?

Finally, any other advise from users?

Appreciate your time to read and response.
Have a great day!
EM

 

[limwhow]

A good thread you have raised.
Allow me to camp here to hear what the experienced users have to share with us.
Thank you!

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

I know someone who has the TSE17 as well as the Nikkor PC-E 24, though he may not be posting here anymore

 

[lkkang]

bumping UP !!! ..
I link this thread to facebook, might find some answers there too.

 

[Kenneth67C]

The 24mm is a 24mm, ie it has a 84deg angle of view. With the shift, you change the perspective, but it is still a 24mm.
The 17mm will give you a wider view (104deg). I don't own one [yet], but Giantcanopy aka Dr Ryan does, so you can ask him for his opinions on that lens.

Here is an example of shift employed. The shot was taken from a bridge, lens shifted downwards to get more of the road while maintaining the buildings vertical. Taken at 4s, F11, ISO 200, this shot is sharp from corner to corner.

Employing tilt you can selectively blur out parts of the shot to give prominence to your subject, even though this is a UWA with a max aperture of F3.5.

As for your original question: do I wish I had the TSE17? Well yes, when the opportunity presents itself, it is very useful if you need a broader perspective. Would I trade the 24 for the 17 - No. I love the 24 to bits. Its that good.

 

[Cowseye]

The first pic looks kinda scary. Like a car accident almost bat to happen!

 

[Kenneth67C]

Some caveats about TSE lenses:
1) Its only manual focus.
2) Shifting and tilting affects the exposure - so you need to meter first, then tilt/shift and shoot in M mode.
3) Its heavy, but still handholdable - even with tilt and shift employed. For long exposures and if you want to join shifted images, a tripod is mandatory.

The bokeh is great, isn't it?

 

[Kenneth67C]

The first pic looks kinda scary. Like a car accident almost bat to happen!

That's traffic in Shanghai, chaotic, but serious accidents seldom happen.

 

[emlee]

Thanks Kenneth. Your statement "not trading 24 for 17" is the kind of affirmation I was looking for. Not that I have a pre-formed notion, just that I have read raving reviews on the 24mm, but still worry that it might not be wide enough given I am used to the 17mm wide-ness.

On my question 1), allow me to explain. I have read online that the equivalent focal length of the TS-E 17mm is actually 11mm, given the larger image circle. Sure, frame by frame, it is 17mm. But given the large image circle and the shift capability, the actual achievable focal length (with stitching) is 11mm. Does that make sense? If this is utter nonsense, let me know.

thanks

 

[CamInit]

Not familiar with TS-E but recalled somewhere mentioned before that one could add a 1.4x extender to the 17mm to get 24mm. Something for you to consider.

 

[emlee]

Hi CamInit, this is totally not the direction I am going... Think you might have missed my point.

Not familiar with TS-E but recalled somewhere mentioned before that one could add a 1.4x extender to the 17mm to get 24mm. Something for you to consider.

 

[Kenneth67C]

Thanks Kenneth. Your statement "not trading 24 for 17" is the kind of affirmation I was looking for. Not that I have a pre-formed notion, just that I have read raving reviews on the 24mm, but still worry that it might not be wide enough given I am used to the 17mm wide-ness.

On my question 1), allow me to explain. I have read online that the equivalent focal length of the TS-E 17mm is actually 11mm, given the larger image circle. Sure, frame by frame, it is 17mm. But given the large image circle and the shift capability, the actual achievable focal length (with stitching) is 11mm. Does that make sense? If this is utter nonsense, let me know.

thanks

If you are used to 17mm wides, then sticking with that is a good bet. It will be the best 17mm you can use. If you are not sure, check out the very written review which gives both perspectives for you to compare.

The 24 is really sharp from corner to corner even wide open. For the 17 you need to stop down a bit, to get max sharpness. But these are different lenses. For the 17 you cannot use filters if that matters to you. If you shoot in raw, it may not matter very much.

About the stitching, yes I know what you are talking about. Not sure about the 17 being capable of a 11mm, but I think this is only in panorama mode, not a true 11mm.

I was considering acquiring the TSE17, just that my wife will complain. :embrass:

 

[emlee]

Hahahaha!

On question 2), can I ask what type of photography are you into? Are you more of a landscape or architecture person? Have you been limited/frustrated by the 84degree angle of view much?

 

[emlee]

Out of Topic discussion.
1) This is an image lifted off the-digital-picture.com of the 17mm without shift/tilt:

2) This is the same angle, stitched image using the TS-E 24mm using shift all around:

3) This is the same angle again, stitched image using the TS-E 17mm using shift all around:

Just sharing, readers to derive their own conclusions, but I have found part 1 of my answer. (happy. )

 

[Kenneth67C]

I suppose a bit of both.
If you like to go into old cathedrals and shoot the interior, or if you take architectural shots, the 17mm is indispensable. In a tight squeeze the wider the better. Its not really needed for landscapes, because you don't encounter lots of verticals, but with the tilt, you can isolate certain features of the landscape which is really great. The good thing about the 17 and 24 is that they were built to fulfil the more difficult subject - architectural photography with their sharpness extending to the corners, so for landscapes its no issue.

I suppose the only concern for the 17 is:
1) no filters if this is important for you
2) f4 - for some subjects a bigger aperture maybe required, but if you're getting this lens, probably its not really a concern
3) protruding lens element - according to Ryan it attracts a lot of attention LOL

 

[emlee]

Thanks Kenneth. I don't do architecture photography, but I do take cityscapes, and shift will be handy.
I do enjoy Long Exposure a lot, hence the use of high dense ND is very important to me.
In fact, to me, there is no clear winner, between these 2 lenses. I really really like the idea of 17mm tilt/shift, but the front element, I just cannot get over that... I have had a 24mm lens before. It is great, but lack the dynamic impact of the ultra-wide perspective. sigh. tough call.

Do you have more of your TS-E 24mm works? in other URLs perhaps? I would like to see more. Thanks so much for your responses so far.

 

[giantcanopy]

4) finally [insanely], any users who has BOTH the TS-E 17mm and the TS-E 24mm: can you share with me what are the difference in applications between the 2 lenses? What are the limitations of the 24mm that caused you to get the 17mm as well?

Hi EM just noted ur FB post!

@ Kenneth67C, I am glad u got real comfy with ur 24TSEII so quickly!

I do not have the 24TSE/II, but i had the 24PCE that I sold off. That was because wasn't too satisfied with the working corners and there was no way I can control the electromagnetic diaphragm by any known adapter onto my 5D2. ( if it was a 24TSE i probably have kept it )
The 24mm PCE focal length was great for landscapes, but after fiddling with DIY adapting Mamiya lenses onto T/S adapter, I find I am a little more comfortable with using slightly longer focal lengths in region of 35 to 55 mm where things get less distorted.

I got the 17TSE purely because there was a great deal from overseas forum actually. (rather than a functional reason .. :bsmilie: ) Someone sold it as fast as he bought it without knowing what he was into, and his huge loss became my huge gain. Anyhow.. I will see how I can get into shooting with it for my next holiday

I am not sure how wide the 17mm can get when stitched in a pano side to side. I only took it out twice since i bought it last yr. I will try do some focal length comparison this week with my sigma 12-24 to see how wide it gets laterally.

( I do landscapes.. usually .. EM u know la )

Ryan

 

[lkkang]

I KayPo here.. I do not have any 24mm or 17mm tilt-shift lens... and I seldom shoot 35mm camera..

but, I feel that 24mm should be a better option then 17mm.

1) with a 24mm, you can shift the lens and achieve a wider angle, but not a 17mm cannot do anything to become 24mm, even if you crop, you will suffer perspective distortion.

2) I do not think you want to shoot with a 17mm lens ( so expensive ), round front element exposed at a place where wind speed is about 20 knots with sand in the air. At the end of the shoot, you will a layer of sand well rubbed or polished your front element.

3) We have been shooting wedding dinners at the restaurants, 24mm should be good on a full frame camera.

Mai Tu Liao, get the 24mm

Billy

 

[giantcanopy]

Regarding buildings wise , the 17mm TSE easily allows
- proper correction of verticals at a tighter distance compared to 24mm TSE
- tripod and stitch an interior short with much more coverage than the 24mm TSE that I often find limiting ( having said that , u can just use a wide lens and shoot and stitch with PP correction la

 

[Kenneth67C]

Here is another excellent review of the TSE 17F4 from Photozone.de.

The distortion level is very low for such a UWA at 1.1% barrel.

For any of these lenses, using it is a very deliberate process because its entirely manual. I doubt you will be using this is extreme weather conditions.

This is a very specialist lens, mainly used by professionals who get paid for it.
This photographer has both with samples on his website.

@Ryan: thanks for your advice, its a great lens once you get the hang of it. Just play, shoot and learn.