Tony Abbott "praising Japan's WWII skills"
- Thread starter UncleFai
- Start date
Sion
Senior Member
Your Wiki link Quote The rapid defeat of Japan's Kwantung Army has been argued to be a significant factor in the Japanese surrender and the end of World War II Unquote.
Success in just one theatre of battle that is arguable suddenly became the sole cause of surrender, a significant factor become sole factor :bsmilie: The defeat may have been a contributory factor in the final surrender but without the devastation brought by the atomic bombs, you think the Japanese would just suddenly & quickly throw in the towel? This especially since the Japanese are such a proud people, who are willing to commit suicide rather than face the shame of surrender? The Japanese were frightened??? :bsmilie::bsmilie: They had no choice, facing the prospect of utter annihilation of their country & people. They & the whole world witnessed the dawn of the atomic age, of bombs which can destroy an entire nation, race (or even mankind). Their god, the emperor has to bow down in this instance :bsmilie:
But of course, history is debatable & it depends on which side you are on, whether you support or opposed the bombings.. But the bombs are not a myth.
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Between the Communists and Nuclear Bombs, the Japanese feared the former more because it meant the destruction of their culture. Like you know, the Emperor would be executed?Your Wiki link Quote The rapid defeat of Japan's Kwantung Army has been argued to be a significant factor in the Japanese surrender and the end of World War II Unquote.
Success in just one theatre of battle that is arguable suddenly became the sole cause of surrender, a significant factor become sole factor :bsmilie: The defeat may have been a contributory factor in the final surrender but without the devastation brought by the atomic bombs, you think the Japanese would just suddenly & quickly throw in the towel? This especially since the Japanese are such a proud people, who are willing to commit suicide rather than face the shame of surrender? The Japanese were frightened??? :bsmilie::bsmilie: They had no choice, facing the prospect of utter annihilation of their country & people. They & the whole world witnessed the dawn of the atomic age, of bombs which can destroy an entire nation, race (or even mankind). The emperor has to bow down in this instance
But of course, history is debatable & it depends on which side you are on, whether you support or opposed the bombings.. But the bombs are not a myth.
Mind you, the Americans have already wrought nuclear explosion level destruction on Japanese cities and the Japanese still hadn't surrendered yet. Like you know, the firebombings of Tokyo?
The situation in Japan is far more complicated than claiming "oh the bombs ended the war". It was far more complicated than that because even after the bombs the Japanese were holding out for a settlement that would allow them to keep their conquests. The Russian invasion however, put that illusion to the pastures for good. Never mind that the Red Army was establishing a beachhead in the Sakhalin islands.
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Read the broadcast on the termination of war (surrender to the Allies) by the Japanese emperor here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyokuon-h%C5%8Ds%C5%8D,in particular the Content. And from Full Text (partial)
Quote
Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should We continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.
Such being the case, how are We to save the millions of Our subjects, or to atone Ourselves before the hallowed spirits of Our Imperial Ancestors? This is the reason why We have ordered the acceptance of the provisions of the Joint Declaration of the Powers.
Unquote
The atomic bombs were dropped on 6 & 9 August 1945. Japan surrendered (declaration of termination of war) on 15 August 1945 (official documents signed later). Russia declared/commence war on Japan on 8/9 August with the invasion of Manchuria. Attack of Karafuto / Sakhalin started on 11 August, breaking the defence line/resistence only on 16 August & completed the conquest on 26 August. Check out Soviet Invasion & Post War here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karafuto_Prefecture
If the Allies wanted to knock off the Emperor (no messy & contentious execution) & obliterate whatever structures of government, civilisation & culture, all they need is to drop off a couple more of 'Little Boy' & 'Fat Man' over Tokyo. No need for long drawn out battles & loss of soldiers like for the Russians.
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You don't get the point. If the Americans wanted to have killed the Emperor, they would have done it during the firebombings of Tokyo. Instead, they explicitly told their bomber pilots not to drop their bombs on the Imperial Palace. You know how many people were killed in that firebombing? Something like over a hundred thousand people, which isn't too far off from the casualties wrought by one of the nuclear bombs. No Need for Nukes. The firebombings would have done the job. The Japanese were incapable of intercepting American B-29 bombers and their navy was a shambles. Their armies were weak, and facing a war hardened and well equipped opponent like the Red Army, they were simply a pack of cards waiting to fall. Militarily, they were already defeated even before the nuclear bombings.
The Americans by 1944/45 were looking for a way out of the war. They did not want to kill the leadership hierarchy which would have brought an end to the war. The Americans, unlike the Russians, were unwilling to have any more casualties. Dropping the bombs was supposed to convince the Japanese that their cause was hopeless and surrendering was the only option, but even then the Japanese were not willing to. The Japanese were hoping the Soviet Union would mediate a cease-fire that would end the war and allow the Japanese to keep its possessions. After the Soviet invasion, they finally decided there was no more hope of keeping any of their conquests. Even then however, elements within the military were still not willing to surrender, and some of them even launched a failed coup to stop the Emperor from making that surrender announcement.
And honestly? I have no idea what is your point beyond just quoting things out of rote. Simple paragraphs like these aren't going to ever summarize even completely a situation like this. In fact, something like this is worth a History PhD thesis.
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http://www.news.com.au/national/ton...apans-war-record/story-fncynjr2-1226984686363
"I've got bigger balls than you."
"I've got bigger balls than you."
Bro, sorry I didn't get your point. doing business and being invaded and praising your enemy is totally different subject. If a PM got to lower himself to this point, their citizen cannot lift up their heads anymore.
Australia should erect a monument beside their soldiers monument for the Japanese soldiers if that is what their PM is saying. Equal hero, haha
Even after looking at what the emperor himself said & the chronological sequence of events, you still don't get it. Anyway If you don't get the point, no point going further. Nothing convince you & noticed in your many past posts you like to win (like the mythical Nazulking character?), to have the last word, so ok we just leave it here 
You said this
Quote
Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should We continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.
Unquote
Which do you fear more, that which cause you to lose some territories (in this case only Karafuto) or that which wipe you & everything off the face of the earth
You dont get this?
P.S you quote Wiki & when others quote it, you ridicule it??? Maybe you are a PhD historian, but no need this in CS Kopitiam :bsmilie:
You said this
Actually, how you know they feared the Russians more, other than based on your own conjecture? If they feared the destruction of their culture &/or the emperor's execution, the bomb would also do the same job, if not faster, better & more efficiently. This real fear of the bomb was explicitly expressed in the emperor's declaration, that's why he, on behalf of the people & nation, surrendered. The decision to surrender was already made by the cabinet on 10 August. Military men agree or not, fear because of the loss of power, pride or whatever, wanted to continue fighting to gain leverage or stage a coup by some officers, its a separate matter. And I never said the Americans wanted to kill the Emperor.
Quote
Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should We continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.
Unquote
Which do you fear more, that which cause you to lose some territories (in this case only Karafuto) or that which wipe you & everything off the face of the earth
You dont get this?
P.S you quote Wiki & when others quote it, you ridicule it??? Maybe you are a PhD historian, but no need this in CS Kopitiam :bsmilie:
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The atomic bombs ending the war is not a myth just because it may be debatable. And I thought you are of the opinion that the Japanese are impervious to casualties, like in the firebombing, so how can they be "frightened"? As to the debate, you can check out here (non wiki) http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/nuclear_01.shtml Of course you can insists the BCC article is a myth too.
For me, I am amazed, even to this day, how the Japanese emperor got away scot free, how he escaped prosecution & conviction as a war criminal. His portrayal as a meek, docile & submissive character manipulated & misled by the generals & admirals into the horrors of war is laudable! Being a "god" has its privileges, anyone else would have to commit seppuku out of shame & to take responsibility as the head!
Can read this too http://www.pacificwar.org.au/JapWarCrimes/USWarCrime_Coverup.html Ironic how Australia wanted to prosecute the Japanese emperor then but the Australian PM like idolised Japan for its war conduct now :bigeyes:
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Sion
Senior Member
This may be relevant to this thread:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/julie-bishop-a-complete-fool-says-chinese-paper-20140714-zt6w0.html
http://www.smh.com.au/world/julie-bishop-a-complete-fool-says-chinese-paper-20140714-zt6w0.html
Tony Aboott is an idiot !! .... lol
See Facebook.....
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290,000 FANS ( prob paid for )
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tony-Abbott-Worst-PM-in-Australian-History/151576228341304
See Facebook.....
His OFFICIAL page :
290,000 FANS ( prob paid for )
https://www.facebook.com/TonyAbbottMP
His Hate Page ( Tony Abbott - Worst PM in Australian History - Community Page ) :
198,300 FANS ( all 1000% genuine fans.... )
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tony-Abbott-Worst-PM-in-Australian-History/151576228341304
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He is one of my favourite actor But his stance with arms akimbo, stare thru sunglasses, & sticking that thing out of his mouth make him look real scary! The way poster is presented, the hint is that perhaps MacArthur was/behaved like an emperor, rather than the Japanese emperor himself
Only manage to watch half of the movie online. Good entertainment & as usual for Hollywood, there must be some romantic love interest or love story with some pretty ladies thrown in Movie more interesting & exciting than history because of creative licence to fantasise!
But his stance with arms akimbo, stare thru sunglasses, & sticking that thing out of his mouth make him look real scary! The way poster is presented, the hint is that perhaps MacArthur was/behaved like an emperor, rather than the Japanese emperor himself Only manage to watch half of the movie online. Good entertainment & as usual for Hollywood, there must be some romantic love interest or love story with some pretty ladies thrown in
Movie more interesting & exciting than history because of creative licence to fantasise! I recommend this show but probably it would not be able to survive the intense scrutiny and scholarship of both of you. But I'm a simpleton for history. :embrass:
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He is one of my favourite actor
Yes, you are right!
Interesting read about action in a more remote corner of more Japanese soldiers' "skill and honour."
http://www.dontow.com/2009/08/heroic-and-critical-battles-in-yunnan-during-wwii/
Author's down to earth conclusion:
Tony Abbott should really go honour the Japanese war dead at the Yasukuni Shrine.
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