To ban or not to ban

[d.a.photo]

Recently there was a lot of posting and complaint about thoa_rs being disnonest and deceiving.

Should not moderators black list or ban thoa_rs from using clubsnap?

Or is thoa_rs a good friend of the moderators, thats why moderators are bias?

Although its the tendency of people to complaints when things are not right, but then fact remains complaints can turn out to be true.

I mean, lets face it, thoa_rs particular does prove that he is only 20yr plus, who would wants to learn photography from him?

Even a 3 yr old kid knows theres something fishy about this thoa_rs.

Theres been cases also of moderators shutting down members because members complaint against moderators.

Moderators should be rational and not egoistic.

I strongly support banning fishy photographer like thoa_rs.

 

[espn]

+1 before lock.

 

[glennyong]

this is waht i actualli experienced at the so called interview.

 

[TMC]

maybe i should shed some light on this issue.

i was there for his "so-called" interview. i was going to expect a regular middle age guy who would actually provide learning opportunities.

However, to my disbelieve, when i was there, i actually saw 2 guys, 1 is a videographer, the other (thoa_rs) is a photographer.in their early 20's, looks like regular students to me...

he would ask on ur previous experience with photography and ask if u are comfortable working with digital workflow and flim. BnWs and colours.

after a short interview, he asked me whether i was free to shoot on this days... given a date 14th. but eventually i wasnt able to turn up as i was working OT.

He said, if i were to be "to up to his standard" i will have to shoot 6-8mths FOR free !! no pays, no allowance, juz shoot and give him the prints. and he will slowly intro me to his so called clients and eventually place my name on his website which he claimed he spent thousands of dollars making them. after the 6-8mths den hw will review whether should he take u under his wing.

first of all... its not the trust or not. But to make me to shoot 6-8mths for free is realli asking trouble from me. pple who work during probation periods also get allowances.

and after which, if he was to take u under his wing, the client will have to pay him first, and then he will take the top, u take the bottom and u shoot, he submit. thats a per assignment basis.. get wad i meant ?

Now I would like to hear what Thoa_rs has to say in his defence. Coz if what GY has said is true, this is a really cheap exploitation of other people. 6-8 months of shooting and prints without compensation. whew.... I would like to shake hands with the person who actually agreed to it. :bsmilie:

 

[Vulpix0r]

Recently there was a lot of posting and complaint about thoa_rs being disnonest and deceiving.

Should not moderators black list or ban thoa_rs from using clubsnap?

Or is thoa_rs a good friend of the moderators, thats why moderators are bias?

Although its the tendency of people to complaints when things are not right, but then fact remains complaints can turn out to be true.

I mean, lets face it, thoa_rs particular does prove that he is only 20yr plus, who would wants to learn photography from him?

Even a 3 yr old kid knows theres something fishy about this thoa_rs.

Theres been cases also of moderators shutting down members because members complaint against moderators.

Moderators should be rational and not egoistic.

I strongly support banning fishy photographer like thoa_rs.

Dude, it's getting boring with your inane banter. Got anything can just message the moderators privately? You're not an admin or mod here so don't bomb around like one.

 

[Drudkh]

hi glenn,

from the story you just said, it sounds totally diff from the thread thoa_rs stated.

a quote from the that thread

These are all non-paid shoots so try to think of it as a learning opportunity, your photos taken will be owned by you so you may use them to build up your portfolio if you wish, although it would be great if you could give the couple a CD of your best photos.

Did i miss out something here? :dunno:

 

[glennyong]

yeah... what is on the thread and what he said.. different 2 things... well... kinda dissapointed too..

 

[icarus]

I thought it was pretty clear on Thoa's thread that he himself is a youngster too and those are all non-paid shoots. So what's the problem here?
:dunno:

 

[Drudkh]

I thought it was pretty clear on Thoa's thread that he himself is a youngster too and those are all non-paid shoots. So what's the problem here?
:dunno:

i think the problem is when glenn met up with jon, jon made diff terms on the assignments? if that's what i perceived from the posts in this thread.

 

[eikin]

this case is getting complicated?

 

[glennyong]

I thought it was pretty clear on Thoa's thread that he himself is a youngster too and those are all non-paid shoots. So what's the problem here?
:dunno:

he is a youngster. YES. correct. who says they are non-paid shoots ? u must be kidding, u shoot weddings for free ? i wouldnt believe that... if u shoot weddings for free, will u want to tell others u spend thousands on publicity and work for u free 6-8mths probation and pay u according per assignment basis ?

 

[icarus]

i think the problem is when glenn met up with jon, jon made diff terms on the assignments? if that's what i perceived from the posts in this thread.

Perhaps jon wanted to collect prints from glenn instead of a CD (as stated on his thread)?

 

[kijer]

or mebbe glenn std not up to jon's? :dunno:

 

[icarus]

he is a youngster. YES. correct. who says they are non-paid shoots ? u must be kidding, u shoot weddings for free ? i wouldnt believe that... if u shoot weddings for free, will u want to tell others u spend thousands on publicity and work for u free 6-8mths probation and pay u according per assignment basis ?

quoted from Thoa-rs's post http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=128646 :

These are all non-paid shoots so try to think of it as a learning opportunity, your photos taken will be owned by you so you may use them to build up your portfolio if you wish, although it would be great if you could give the couple a CD of your best photos.

Its was supposed to be non-paid and as a learning experience, period. Not sure if there is a miscomm when u guys meet up or not. But maybe Thoa can come out and clear this.
:sweat:

 

[glennyong]

i have said my part on this issue. however i do not wish to cause distress or whatso-ever to this forum.

we should take this thread lightly and i have done my part in providing my meet-up experience with him...

hope guys who were there, can stand up for urselves now...

 

[King Tiger]

+1 before lock.

 

[weg]

maybe i should shed some light on this issue.

i was there for his "so-called" interview. i was going to expect a regular middle age guy who would actually provide learning opportunities.

However, to my disbelieve, when i was there, i actually saw 2 guys, 1 is a videographer, the other (thoa_rs) is a photographer.in their early 20's, looks like regular students to me...

he would ask on ur previous experience with photography and ask if u are comfortable working with digital workflow and flim. BnWs and colours.

after a short interview, he asked me whether i was free to shoot on this days... given a date 14th. but eventually i wasnt able to turn up as i was working OT.

He said, if i were to be "to up to his standard" i will have to shoot 6-8mths FOR free !! no pays, no allowance, juz shoot and give him the prints. and he will slowly intro me to his so called clients and eventually place my name on his website which he claimed he spent thousands of dollars making them. after the 6-8mths den hw will review whether should he take u under his wing.

first of all... its not the trust or not. But to make me to shoot 6-8mths for free is realli asking trouble from me. pple who work during probation periods also get allowances.

and after which, if he was to take u under his wing, the client will have to pay him first, and then he will take the top, u take the bottom and u shoot, he submit. thats a per assignment basis.. get wad i meant ?

think now the unhappiness is about the feeling that pple will be exploited for cheap labour. Not getting paid for 6 months may seem like a ridiculous condition, but i believe thoa_rs did not coerce anyone into agreeing to that deal. From what you mentioned, it appears that pple would have known of this condition and it is up to them whether or not to accept it. Like any business deal, each party may have terms which are disadvantageous to himself... if anyone is not agreeable to it, just don't do it.

Actually, if you think rationally about the whole thing, I would say that whoever does take up the pupilage still benefits... besides the experience that you can get, both in skills for shooting weddings and handling a a/d wedding photog business, the possible contacts that you can get is a bonus.. let's not be so egoistic and think that we always need to be paid. IMHO i think this is better than paying so much money to join photoshoots of models. I wonder why pple are not complaining that they are paying to take pics.

Another issue is the perception that thoa_rs seems to be exploiting pple... I have personally joined him for some wedding shoots before, and I can say for sure that he doesnt need an assistant, and if I were him, I'd be happy shooting away by myself, having my client-base to myself. Why bother letting other newbies join me and probably make a mess or risk getting into my way/shots.

Perhaps one mistake thoa_rs made was that he should have made it clear that his opening is only for pple are who seriously commited to eventually being in the business of a/d wedding photog, and as such are willing to work hard... and it is not for people who are in it for the quick buck or even as masak masak.

 

[TMC]

actually I would find it hard to believe that he is doing non-paid shoots on so many days. He has a good website for his business and he is charging 1k plus per actual day shoot.

me 2 cts.

 

[fotoudavid]

OM goodness, if GY case is true, then this is bad, real bad............ :bigeyes:

 

[wind30]

well... miscommunication ornot.

i nv showed him my works, and i seldom show pple my works unless my clients insist on viewing my previous works.

i gave him my online deviantart. so he could roughly have a idea on my standard of work.

we met and discussed, the terms is if i were to accept the conditions, i will come for a wedding shoot on the 14th, by which i will have to submit to him in a cd. (this is fine)

but soon, the selected candidates will go through a so-called probation period by which is 6-8mths by which he says depend on ur learning curve. if u are a fast learner, he will take u under his wing and ur name will be on his website.

after which you will only be paid on a per assigment basis. the probation period is still under a non-paid shoot. by which in the end, should u fail not meeting up to his "requirement". u will be asked to leave while he collects 6-8mths extra allowance.

i strongly believe he uses students as a excuse to recruit young photographers in, and use them as back-up photographers, and tell the client he will be paying for 2 photographers and 1 videographer and in the end, onli 1 photographer gets paid...

well...

so what is the problem? After reading through all the thread, I still cannot see what is the problem? Perhaps his terms are not attractive to YOU but it may be attractive to some other guy. I think he DID NOT LIE or misrepresented anything right??? or conned you??? or anything???

what did he do???