Some issues I observed around Clubsnap...


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Gummi

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Jul 18, 2004
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#1
I have this kept in my mind for some time, I thought I should just voice out certain things I observed around CS. I understand that this is a photography forum, where technique exchange should take place. But don’t you guys think that Singaporeans are not as willing to share their techniques as compared to other countries? Another thing that I have noticed is that this forum has progressed from one in the past which is pretty good in standard to now, where people discussed nothing more then comparing lens and who has what lens? Is lens really that an important factor? Good lens, lousy skills = LOUSY overall.

Another issue is on street photography, voyeurism whatever you all might call it. Looking back at a few threads, it seems that Singaporeans are pretty particularly about this. In the US, as long as you are in the public place, no one cares about who you are taking. Yes, it is fine to take photos, candid ones of old man on the street, old aunties doing taiji, or punks doing their stunts, and I think if one would to pose a candid shot of a handsome man in the forums, no voyeurism of such word will appear. BUT when a pretty lady is being captured on image, all the crap about moral ethnics, law of modesty, and etc will come out, and in fact, the thread will become popular overnight.

What do you define by the term voyeurism? A word that only applies when taking upksirt shots, or now to the extent where a shot of a pretty lady = voyeurism. And what is the difference if you take it in a very nicely composed frame or just a normal shot of her. The former would be artistic, sweet and the latter is bad, this guy has no moral ethnics. So if I take candid, spy shots of old man on the streets sleeping, will anyone stop me, and say I have no moral values?

Up to now, I still don’t understand why there is such discrimination between candid shots of 2 different groups: pretty ladies and others. They are just candid shots IMO, and as long the shots don’t end up in some porn site, it should be fine. And who says only candid shots end up in porn sites or other undesirable site? The example on the Suzuki motorshow is a perfect one where even posed shots ended up in some dubious site. What’s wrong with sites like sggirls and photoforum anyway?

Forget this whole thread if you guys think I am talking crap here. But I just want to voice out some thoughts on these 2 issues.

God Bless
 

Gummi

New Member
Jul 18, 2004
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#2
Seems that no one has anything to voice out even after 50 views....
 

jonlou

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Mar 24, 2004
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#3
Gummi said:
I have this kept in my mind for some time, I thought I should just voice out certain things I observed around CS. I understand that this is a photography forum, where technique exchange should take place. But don’t you guys think that Singaporeans are not as willing to share their techniques as compared to other countries?
i totally disagree with u on this point. members of this forum are a bunch of friendly people who are more than willing to help and share photography techniques with newbies like me. even if they are not helping out newbies, they do share their own expertise and experiences with each other still, about their techniques and photographs. never once was i got ignored/idled/turned away whenever i posted certain doubts/questions/threads about photoshop techniques/shooting techniques.


Gummi said:
Another thing that I have noticed is that this forum has progressed from one in the past which is pretty good in standard to now, where people discussed nothing more then comparing lens and who has what lens? Is lens really that an important factor? Good lens, lousy skills = LOUSY overall.
are u sure people here discuss NO MORE THAN lenses? i dun find it anything unusual to share ur new gadget (be it expensive/cheap) with the people ard u. lens is not everything, but LENS' are indeed important to a large extend. take a walk down the forums' memory lane. im sure u can definitely spot threads that aRE MORE THAN JUST LENses... :think:


Gummi said:
Another issue is on street photography, voyeurism whatever you all might call it. Looking back at a few threads, it seems that Singaporeans are pretty particularly about this. In the US, as long as you are in the public place, no one cares about who you are taking. Yes, it is fine to take photos, candid ones of old man on the street, old aunties doing taiji, or punks doing their stunts, and I think if one would to pose a candid shot of a handsome man in the forums, no voyeurism of such word will appear. BUT when a pretty lady is being captured on image, all the crap about moral ethnics, law of modesty, and etc will come out, and in fact, the thread will become popular overnight.
voyeurism? gummi, this is a photography forum! where on earth did u get the idea from that STREET PHOTOGRAPHY = VOYEURISM?? do u even know what voyeurism is in the first place?

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/voyeurism - A paraphilia characterized by repetitive looking at unsuspecting people, usually strangers, who are either naked, in the act of disrobing, or engaging in sexual activity, as the method for achieving sexual excitement.

u really think clubsnappers here even engage in such activities? u really need to think real hard even making such assumptions about such stuff. im not that overall sensitive but i think if sensitive forumers sees such stuff, i think they're be quite pissed off about ur words and the definition of "street photography". even u're tok about poking fun at nude photography, they only have animals as their subjects & i certainly think the people here know their limits.

Gummi said:
What do you define by the term voyeurism? A word that only applies when taking upksirt shots, or now to the extent where a shot of a pretty lady = voyeurism.
i really have no idea where u got this perception from. in fact, in my stay here, i've not read any forumers post any inethical/inappropiate about all the model shoots that involve pretty models.

Gummi said:
And what is the difference if you take it in a very nicely composed frame or just a normal shot of her. The former would be artistic, sweet and the latter is bad, this guy has no moral ethnics. So if I take candid, spy shots of old man on the streets sleeping, will anyone stop me, and say I have no moral values?
really really really have no idea wad u're saying. do u even know wad are u toking about urself in the first place?

Gummi said:
Up to now, I still don’t understand why there is such discrimination between candid shots of 2 different groups: pretty ladies and others. They are just candid shots IMO, and as long the shots don’t end up in some porn site, it should be fine. And who says only candid shots end up in porn sites or other undesirable site? The example on the Suzuki motorshow is a perfect one where even posed shots ended up in some dubious site. What’s wrong with sites like sggirls and photoforum anyway?

Forget this whole thread if you guys think I am talking crap here. But I just want to voice out some thoughts on these 2 issues.

God Bless
its good that u voice out ur views and thoughts gummi. but IMHO, i really think that theres really no need for such a thread. it'll only welcome unnecessary flammings lar. sometimes u should really get ur facts right before posting such comments. :think:

Happy New Year. ;)
 

singscott

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Aug 25, 2004
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#6
Hey this a forum. People ask question we try to help by answering that question. If more of they ask about lens, we try to use what we know and answer them. We can't be telling them off by saying get better skill first :what: May be you can use your great intelligence and ask questions that will enlight these poor folks :D But this question above is not a good example :bsmilie:
 

Astin

Senior Member
Mar 2, 2002
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Astin Studio
astin.clubsnap.org
#7
1. You post is too long. (ok that was a joke ;) )
2. You seem to generalise a lot (words like "people", "Singaporeans").
3. Nothing wrong with comparing lens in a photography forum.
4. You seem to think these are all the same: candid shot, street photography, voyeurism.
 

Spyer2

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Mar 20, 2004
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#8
We are living in Asian country, that's why I think street photography are not that common at this moment. I always wanted to carry my camera walking around city area to shoot some 'unique scene', but most of the time I failed to do so, coz when I take out my camera ppl all looking at me, thought I might be a reporter etc. :embrass:

As for 'race queen' they are paid for photo shooting, so ppl in mind knows that "we are allow to take photos here!". So ends up all the photos shows up in the forum and some goes to 'other' site as well. :cry:
 

GENO

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2004
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Teddy Bear Land
#9
Maybe only those that make a living out of photograhpy will be less willing to teach all their skills...its their rice bowl u know?
Everyone has their own way of taking photos ,may it be kids to old people, or pretty ladies to anything else...its up to them...
Maybe Singaporeans still cannot get used to be snap at...most will just shy off...its our nature..me too will hide if i see a camera pointing towards me..

Well ,thanks to tis forum, i make lots of new friends and learned lots of new things too.
If u feel that people around u are less willing to share tips of taking better photos, why not join us in a outing, as long as we knows what u need, we dont mind sharing at all.

cheers..
Geno

by the way, we are in the thread " SENTOSA OUTING " in " KOPITIAM " ..chat there..
 

Gummi

New Member
Jul 18, 2004
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#10
Astin said:
1. You post is too long. (ok that was a joke ;) )
2. You seem to generalise a lot (words like "people", "Singaporeans").
3. Nothing wrong with comparing lens in a photography forum.
4. You seem to think these are all the same: candid shot, street photography, voyeurism.
Well, maybe I should be more specific, majority that is. Of course, a handful of people around CS are very helpful.

4. Perhaps streetshooter can explain more on this part.
 

Gummi

New Member
Jul 18, 2004
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#11
Jonlou: You should start readin past post and how some associated Street shoot and voy tog.
 

jonlou

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Mar 24, 2004
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#12
Gummi said:
Well, maybe I should be more specific, majority that is. Of course, a handful of people around CS are very helpful.

4. Perhaps streetshooter can explain more on this part.
i really dunnoe where ur "majority" came from....

streetshooters? IMO, i think u should just go directly to the porn industries in some other countries to find out wad voyeur photography is... think they can explain in a more detailed and specific way. cos i dun think any streetshooters here do those shots.... :sweat:
 

GENO

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2004
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#13
Gummi said:
Well, maybe I should be more specific, majority that is. Of course, a handful of people around CS are very helpful.

4. Perhaps streetshooter can explain more on this part.
U wanta shoot streets, if the person is looking at u, just smile before u snap at him, i dont think he will mind... if he gives the "NO" action, forget it then..
 

icarus

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2002
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#14
Gummi said:
But don’t you guys think that Singaporeans are not as willing to share their techniques as compared to other countries?
I have to disagree with u on this point, so far all the clubsnap people i've met are extremely helpful and very willing to teach newbies like myself...

Gummi said:
Another thing that I have noticed is that this forum has progressed from one in the past which is pretty good in standard to now, where people discussed nothing more then comparing lens and who has what lens? Is lens really that an important factor? Good lens, lousy skills = LOUSY overall.
This point i agree... i also felt that there are more threads on equipment than techniques nowadays... could be due to the falling prices of DSLRs, more newbies jumped into the bandwagon and thus started more threads on equipment :)
 

Jun 27, 2002
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here
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#15
really i dun understand what is the ruckess about? there are so many types of people in singapore, there are so many types of photography around, some people like to particate in forums some only read, some just shoot.

forgive me for being blunt but you are also a generalising singaporean, expect people to feed you all the time. I say go out and explore your own, you find more, ask more questions, ask about techniques? i share what i know here to everyone who bother to ask me, i never turn down a PM on any issue related to photography.

if you find this place not to your liking, there is always an option to start your own forum to share.

sorry my mood seems to be effected by the 20k deaths more than any petty rant i can perhaps tolerate today.

You have a nice day yourself. :)
 

jonlou

New Member
Mar 24, 2004
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#16
icarus said:
This point i agree... i also felt that there are more threads on equipment than techniques nowadays... could be due to the falling prices of DSLRs, more newbies jumped into the bandwagon and thus started more threads on equipment :)
even if thats the case. dun think its any fault right? it still zeros back to photography...
 

Sep 12, 2004
183
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16
#17
Gummi said:
I have this kept in my mind for some time, I thought I should just voice out certain things I observed around CS. I understand that this is a photography forum, where technique exchange should take place. But don’t you guys think that Singaporeans are not as willing to share their techniques as compared to other countries? Another thing that I have noticed is that this forum has progressed from one in the past which is pretty good in standard to now, where people discussed nothing more then comparing lens and who has what lens? Is lens really that an important factor? Good lens, lousy skills = LOUSY overall.
Yeah, but the skill of ppl here is substandard....the forum largely consists of newbies, compaired to forums like fredmiranda of sportsshooter, so no techniques to share ma

Anyway, to increase your number of keepers, u need to get equipment. My old olympus camera which had the crappiest WB on earth, a 1-2 sec shutter lag AND a pathatic AF system allowed me to get 1/100 shots "ok" and even that had to be saved in photoshop.

Another issue is on street photography, voyeurism whatever you all might call it. Looking back at a few threads, it seems that Singaporeans are pretty particularly about this. In the US, as long as you are in the public place, no one cares about who you are taking. Yes, it is fine to take photos, candid ones of old man on the street, old aunties doing taiji, or punks doing their stunts, and I think if one would to pose a candid shot of a handsome man in the forums, no voyeurism of such word will appear. BUT when a pretty lady is being captured on image, all the crap about moral ethnics, law of modesty, and etc will come out, and in fact, the thread will become popular overnight.

What do you define by the term voyeurism? A word that only applies when taking upksirt shots, or now to the extent where a shot of a pretty lady = voyeurism. And what is the difference if you take it in a very nicely composed frame or just a normal shot of her. The former would be artistic, sweet and the latter is bad, this guy has no moral ethnics. So if I take candid, spy shots of old man on the streets sleeping, will anyone stop me, and say I have no moral values?

Up to now, I still don’t understand why there is such discrimination between candid shots of 2 different groups: pretty ladies and others. They are just candid shots IMO, and as long the shots don’t end up in some porn site, it should be fine. And who says only candid shots end up in porn sites or other undesirable site? The example on the Suzuki motorshow is a perfect one where even posed shots ended up in some dubious site. What’s wrong with sites like sggirls and photoforum anyway?
ah just ignore those threads
 

jonlou

New Member
Mar 24, 2004
316
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#18
Belle&Sebastain said:
really i dun understand what is the ruckess about? there are so many types of people in singapore, there are so many types of photography around, some people like to particate in forums some only read, some just shoot.

forgive me for being blunt but you are also a generalising singaporean, expect people to feed you all the time. I say go out and explore your own, you find more, ask more questions, ask about techniques? i share what i know here to everyone who bother to ask me, i never turn down a PM on any issue related to photography.

if you find this place not to your liking, there is always an option to start your own forum to share.

sorry my mood seems to be effected by the 20k deaths more than any petty rant i can perhaps tolerate today.

You have a nice day yourself. :)
haiz... it rose to 55k... wads going on....
 

Gummi

New Member
Jul 18, 2004
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#19
Of course. I am delighted to see so many people contributing to the relief funds in the Buy and Sell forum.
 

Watcher

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2003
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#20
Gummi said:
4. Perhaps streetshooter can explain more on this part.
There is no need to explain. As jonlou had quoted from Webster, street is not voyeurism unless you are saying that people do private things in the middle of the street! That is what the intent of voyeurism is: to see people's private acts in order to get sexually excited.

Street shooting by definition is to "shoot" (ie take photo) of people on the street (public) doing public things.

Please note that if you have a different meaning, don't twist an existing word. This seems to be an increasing kind of arrogance ("I like to use it the word this way because I like it!" :rolleyes: ) in the forum
 

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