Seeking for filters advice


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ryuggen

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Apr 5, 2006
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Bukit Panjang
#1
I recently acquired a 2nd hand CPL 77mm thread for my 72 mm lens. Thus, I bought a step up filter of 72-77mm.

I'm now thinking of getting ND filters, probably cokin or tian ya filters. There are some doubts with regard to purchasing ND filters. Hopefully experienced users might be able to help.

If i were to get a ND filter system holder, does it fit on my lens with a CPL 77mm mounted on it?

I realised there are 2 types of ND, gradual and distinct. Any advices on purchasing either of these? ND 2, 4, 8 each shows a stop difference. For landscape photography, users normally use which type of filters?

I would like to create a silky flow of waterflows, sea waves, waterfalls etc. Would it be possible if I mount ND2 and ND4 each covering the top and bottom to create similar effect as a whole piece of ND instead of those halves.
 

nikonrus

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Feb 15, 2007
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#2
When I bought my Cokin holder, it came with a thick catalog to demonstrate all their available (then) filters and show its effect. Too bad I gave it away some years ago or I might be able to help you. If cokin still bundling this catalog, it'll help you a great deal in deciding what filters you'll need for whatever effects you wana create.
 

Hoky

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Mar 17, 2004
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#3
I recently acquired a 2nd hand CPL 77mm thread for my 72 mm lens. Thus, I bought a step up filter of 72-77mm.

I'm now thinking of getting ND filters, probably cokin or tian ya filters. There are some doubts with regard to purchasing ND filters. Hopefully experienced users might be able to help.

If i were to get a ND filter system holder, does it fit on my lens with a CPL 77mm mounted on it?

I realised there are 2 types of ND, gradual and distinct. Any advices on purchasing either of these? ND 2, 4, 8 each shows a stop difference. For landscape photography, users normally use which type of filters?

I would like to create a silky flow of waterflows, sea waves, waterfalls etc. Would it be possible if I mount ND2 and ND4 each covering the top and bottom to create similar effect as a whole piece of ND instead of those halves.
It gets very uneven when u stack the GND2 and GND4, depending on whether u get the sharp or soft edge types. For waterfalls in bright daytime, get yourself the ND8 directly.
 

Sep 8, 2004
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near the Equator
#4
It gets very uneven when u stack the GND2 and GND4, depending on whether u get the sharp or soft edge types. For waterfalls in bright daytime, get yourself the ND8 directly.
The ND8 is the way to go, but for foilage, it might remove far too much details for comfort. I think you can get more info about Cokin filters here.

Cokin Filters
 

ryuggen

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Apr 5, 2006
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Bukit Panjang
#5
ND8 seems like a good investment for filter. That only....

Since we could apply GND through PS, why is there a hassle to get a GND? Well, unless the person is shooting film...

Raw gives us 4 stops of adjustments. Thus, I cant make myself see the importance of filter.

Please enlight.
 

night86mare

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Aug 25, 2006
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#6
ND8 seems like a good investment for filter. That only....

Since we could apply GND through PS, why is there a hassle to get a GND? Well, unless the person is shooting film...

Raw gives us 4 stops of adjustments. Thus, I cant make myself see the importance of filter.

Please enlight.
PS will never compare to what you can do with out-of-cam.
It's just different.

For example, ND will allow you to expose longer so that you get more dreamy looking water, ie. smoother. Can you PS that? I don't think so. A bit hard to do it.

Another example would be the "near-HDR" effect, i.e. the sky is exposed properly with the foreground viewable. Without your GND, very hard to reproduce that sort of effects even with PS.
 

zoossh

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Nov 29, 2005
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#7
I recently acquired a 2nd hand CPL 77mm thread for my 72 mm lens. Thus, I bought a step up filter of 72-77mm.

I'm now thinking of getting ND filters, probably cokin or tian ya filters. There are some doubts with regard to purchasing ND filters. Hopefully experienced users might be able to help. check that your 77mm CPL filter have a thread on the top surface for the adapter ring to be screwed on

If i were to get a ND filter system holder, does it fit on my lens with a CPL 77mm mounted on it?

I realised there are 2 types of ND, gradual and distinct. Any advices on purchasing either of these? ND 2, 4, 8 each shows a stop difference. For landscape photography, users normally use which type of filters?

I would like to create a silky flow of waterflows, sea waves, waterfalls etc. Would it be possible if I mount ND2 and ND4 each covering the top and bottom to create similar effect as a whole piece of ND instead of those halves.
rectangular filter holder of the p series can be adapted to your filter thread via a step down ring. it can be step down to 77mm via a 84-77mm ring or down to 55mm via a 84-55mm ring.

ND are meant to block off and reduce light intensity and darker the tones. whereas GND are meant for blocking off selective area of light intensity, typically the sky. in your given example, it should be ND.
 

Azure

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Mar 16, 2003
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#8
Do you really know what a CPL is for and what a ND is for?
As I said to a CSer yesterday morning - know what you really want before getting all that gear, filters included.

FYI, here are some ND-based images, but they are NOT typical. I'll include some EXIF so that you can get a feel on how they were made.



Very low-light tunnel conditions, ISO100, f8, 30sec. External weather - overcast. Time:5.53pm



Morning with bright sun, ISO100, f8, 4sec handheld. Time:9.22am



Noonday bright sun, ISO100, f5.6, 2sec handheld. Time:12.15pm
 

ryuggen

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Apr 5, 2006
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#9
Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately, I do no have much experience in filters, except CPL, thus would like to seek some advices. I understand how GND can gives a few stops to darken sky to create a blue mood. But with photoshop, is there a need for GND? Blue, Grey, Orange GND etc. To create those colored sky, PS seems to be an easier way out.

Alot of filters which are available eg. from Tianya/Cokin offers effects which one can do away with photoshop. Thus it doesnt quite make sense to invest in those filters where a few simply clicks can do the job.

I'm actually looking into TianYa system, but given my current situation, does it fit the bill? My lens is 72mm, CPL is 77mm used with step up. I would very much prefer to use Tianya system together with the CPL to create darker contrast.


CPL and ND8(for slower shutter) seems to make more sense to invest in compared to other type of filters. Well, perhaps another GND would be good to darken sky.


P.S. Combining ND2 and ND4 might gives an uneven flow, but if we were to expose it for a substantial amount, doesnt it make silky flows the same?

Azure: Those are great photos! The tunnel stated was in lowlight situation, how did yea managed to introduce lights into the waterstream? And how is it possible to handheld a sharp photo with 2-4 seconds shutter? Please advise.
 

ExplorerZ

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Jan 9, 2006
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hkchew03.deviantart.com
#10
Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately, I do no have much experience in filters, except CPL, thus would like to seek some advices. I understand how GND can gives a few stops to darken sky to create a blue mood. But with photoshop, is there a need for GND? Blue, Grey, Orange GND etc. To create those colored sky, PS seems to be an easier way out.

Alot of filters which are available eg. from Tianya/Cokin offers effects which one can do away with photoshop. Thus it doesnt quite make sense to invest in those filters where a few simply clicks can do the job.

I'm actually looking into TianYa system, but given my current situation, does it fit the bill? My lens is 72mm, CPL is 77mm used with step up. I would very much prefer to use Tianya system together with the CPL to create darker contrast.


CPL and ND8(for slower shutter) seems to make more sense to invest in compared to other type of filters. Well, perhaps another GND would be good to darken sky.


P.S. Combining ND2 and ND4 might gives an uneven flow, but if we were to expose it for a substantial amount, doesnt it make silky flows the same?

Azure: Those are great photos! The tunnel stated was in lowlight situation, how did yea managed to introduce lights into the waterstream? And how is it possible to handheld a sharp photo with 2-4 seconds shutter? Please advise.
Photoshop can't give you back details that are lost in the process of exposing(overexposed)
and why does ND2+ND4 gives an uneven flow? effectively it is just a ND8 but of probably lower quality since it is 2 pieces of glass/plastic infront.
 

ryuggen

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#11
Photoshop can't give you back details that are lost in the process of exposing(overexposed)
and why does ND2+ND4 gives an uneven flow? effectively it is just a ND8 but of probably lower quality since it is 2 pieces of glass/plastic infront.
eh, Hoky mentioned about the uneven flow...

In that case, overexposure of photos might happen due to sharp contrast environment. Hmz.. btw, for GND, in the case of Tianya, do they offer different stops? I've checked ppcp but they only offered 1 type, in the context of stop GND
 

zoossh

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Nov 29, 2005
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#12
I understand how GND can gives a few stops to darken sky to create a blue mood. But with photoshop, is there a need for GND? Blue, Grey, Orange GND etc. To create those colored sky, PS seems to be an easier way out.
physical filters affect resultant exposure and may change the shutter duration. addition of effect in PS dun.

also GND does not create a blue mood. it brings out the color of the sky, so does CPL, although not exactly in the same way. the color that comes may be of various colors, not just blue. for example, a very faint pink in the sky will become a darker pink, not blue. however do note that most GND filters have a color tinge, perhaps except for singh ray.

Thus it doesnt quite make sense to invest in those filters where a few simply clicks can do the job.
so far i didn't see any examples of successful graduated colors applied, i know some have applied them but they turned out ugly. i think it still can be done still by a ps guru, however, i dun think it would then be a few simple click.

P.S. Combining ND2 and ND4 might gives an uneven flow, but if we were to expose it for a substantial amount, doesnt it make silky flows the same?
what do you mean by uneven flow?
 

zoossh

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Nov 29, 2005
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#13
eh, Hoky mentioned about the uneven flow...

In that case, overexposure of photos might happen due to sharp contrast environment. Hmz.. btw, for GND, in the case of Tianya, do they offer different stops? I've checked ppcp but they only offered 1 type, in the context of stop GND
1-3 stops. but not sure if they are hard or soft edge.
 

ExplorerZ

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Jan 9, 2006
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#14
eh, Hoky mentioned about the uneven flow...

In that case, overexposure of photos might happen due to sharp contrast environment. Hmz.. btw, for GND, in the case of Tianya, do they offer different stops? I've checked ppcp but they only offered 1 type, in the context of stop GND
thats GND... uneven becos 1/2 of the filter are darker than the other 1/2... but for ND, its uniform throughout...
 

allsmilez

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Jul 11, 2006
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Bukit Timah
#15
Do you really know what a CPL is for and what a ND is for?
As I said to a CSer yesterday morning - know what you really want before getting all that gear, filters included.

FYI, here are some ND-based images, but they are NOT typical. I'll include some EXIF so that you can get a feel on how they were made.



Very low-light tunnel conditions, ISO100, f8, 30sec. External weather - overcast. Time:5.53pm



Morning with bright sun, ISO100, f8, 4sec handheld. Time:9.22am



Noonday bright sun, ISO100, f5.6, 2sec handheld. Time:12.15pm
nice demonstration set of pics. btw whats the secret to handholding for 2-4s without shake?
 

Hoky

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Mar 17, 2004
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#16
eh, Hoky mentioned about the uneven flow...

In that case, overexposure of photos might happen due to sharp contrast environment. Hmz.. btw, for GND, in the case of Tianya, do they offer different stops? I've checked ppcp but they only offered 1 type, in the context of stop GND
I meant uneven contrast (if you see my post on GNDs earlier on), not uneven flow of water....

Anyway, I juz received a call from Cathay that their GNDs are in stock again.
 

ryuggen

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Apr 5, 2006
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Bukit Panjang
#18
I meant uneven contrast (if you see my post on GNDs earlier on), not uneven flow of water....

Anyway, I juz received a call from Cathay that their GNDs are in stock again.
Hoky, which brand of GND? Am very interested in getting a few filters... But cant decided cokin or screw in.


Possible to handhold 2-4s? Wonder if Azure will look at this thread again..
 

zoossh

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Nov 29, 2005
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#19
Hoky, which brand of GND? Am very interested in getting a few filters... But cant decided cokin or screw in.


Possible to handhold 2-4s? Wonder if Azure will look at this thread again..
possible for 1/2-1+ seconds when one is in full support by surrounding structure, e.g. forehead, shoulder, elbow, knee and foot.

for example, u stand behind a low tree with a y-shaped opening, acting like a huge tripod where you lean your body weight on it....

4s..... i dunno.....
 

Azure

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Mar 16, 2003
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#20
Indirectly, I'll link to this ---> http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost.php?p=2911707&postcount=3
(read : I do not use Grad NDs..... even though I have one)

As for handholding, there is no secret - posture, support and breathing. Used to do that with my Coolpix in the past. Only now rediscovered how to get it right on heavier dSLRs. But it isn't possible for every single person. Sometimes I can only push myself to 2 sec. When lucky, I can sustain up to 4 sec, but that is rare. Some folks can do 1-2 sec easily, some find 1/30 hard. So it varies.
 

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