Scottish Independence


Status
Not open for further replies.

UncleFai

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2010
4,451
37
48
Singapore
#1
After partitioning so many other lands, will Great Britain be partitioned today? (An Indian friend calls it "karma".)
 

BBTM

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2004
2,209
6
38
BB West
#3
Back from there and hard to imagine it's going independence. Nice quiet place to be, ask me stays there, I don't mind. Let's wait n see the outcome.
 

pinholecam

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 23, 2007
10,944
88
48
#4
Really no money no honey.....


Its a pity to me and I'm surprised that the Queen chooses to be rather silent over it.
Imagine, she presided over the largest empire in the world, saw it broken up and now its her own kingdom.
 

diver-hloc

Moderator
Staff member
Apr 17, 2007
5,213
13
38
Somewhere North
#6
Really no money no honey.....


Its a pity to me and I'm surprised that the Queen chooses to be rather silent over it.
Imagine, she presided over the largest empire in the world, saw it broken up and now its her own kingdom.


She don't have a choice in it... the Queen of England is like the King of Thailand... no real power and is not suppose to involved with Politics.

Anyway... its up to the Scots to vote as they will... with all the benefits and/or hardships that follows behind their decision...
 

donut88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2008
2,182
5
0
#8
Scotland looks to Singapore's independance for its independance.

We should be proud that we could set such fine example.

We came out stronger and better.
They can only be successful like us if they have another tough LKY to lead the country, to make unpopular policies that are good for the country.

Looking at their present government and all sorts of human rights laws, I say no, they won't succeed.

We succeed coz of hard policies implemented in our early days of independence.

Fo example, can the Scots accept non subsized medical care, compulsory CPF and medisave with all its strict policies on what can and can't be used for?

Can the Scots accept no unemployment benefits?

Can the Scots accept one party rule for 50 years?

Yeah, I may sound silly, but these are few among many.other factors of our successes.

When we got independent 50 years ago, the young LKY wanted to adopt the british style of welfare. (Don't forget LKY was educated in England, so he himself likes the system). Benefits are nice for all people. One british advisor told him never to adopt it because it's detrimental to the country.

See how true the advice is today......

So can the Scots stomach what we went through?
 

kei1309

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2010
7,314
23
38
Earth
www.facebook.com
#9
They can only be successful like us if they have another tough LKY to lead the country, to make unpopular policies that are good for the country.

Looking at their present government and all sorts of human rights laws, I say no, they won't succeed.

We succeed coz of hard policies implemented in our early days of independence.

Fo example, can the Scots accept non subsized medical care, compulsory CPF and medisave with all its strict policies on what can and can't be used for?

Can the Scots accept no unemployment benefits?

Can the Scots accept one party rule for 50 years?

Yeah, I may sound silly, but these are few among many.other factors of our successes.

When we got independent 50 years ago, the young LKY wanted to adopt the british style of welfare. (Don't forget LKY was educated in England, so he himself likes the system). Benefits are nice for all people. One british advisor told him never to adopt it because it's detrimental to the country.

See how true the advice is today......

So can the Scots stomach what we went through?
There's always a limit to how much freedom a person can have
 

Bukitimah

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2010
1,268
6
38
Singapore
#10
After partitioning so many other lands, will Great Britain be partitioned today? (An Indian friend calls it "karma".)
Fortune will rotates over time. At least they only 'steal' but leave behind something for survival. Others just rob and left them high and dry. History has their records.
 

donut88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2008
2,182
5
0
#16
The Scottish should then have LKY as their Minister Mentor. :)
They can't stomach the working style of our LKY. Protest riots will be on streets.

That's the primary root of all problems these western countries are having. Too much.freedm and too much human rights.

If LKY today tell the Scots to have ISA,detention without trial charge. U will see protests on the streets

Or not to have unemployment benefits?

Or to have death penalty fo capital charges?
 

Last edited:

kandinsky

Moderator
Staff member
Apr 26, 2008
3,014
24
38
#17
Hmm... Haven't really thought about this since Sec 2 :bsmilie: but I think a key difference that makes the dynamics of SG's independence quite different from Scotland's situation is that Singapore didn't really choose independence, we were tossed out. The Parliament of Malaysia voted 126-0 to expel Singapore from the Federation of Malaysia.

LKY himself said he believed in the merger:

And I would like to add one... You see, this is a moment of ... everytime we look back on this moment when we signed this agreement which severed Singapore from Malaysia, it will be a moment of anguish. For me it is a moment of anguish because all my life.... you see, the whole of my adult life.... I have believed in Merger and the unity of these two territories.

http://web.archive.org/web/20140809...g/archivesonline/data/pdfdoc/lky19650809b.pdf
The official narrative:

By the second half of 1965, the stormy political climate in Malaysia showed no signs of easing. Tunku Abdul Rahman, who had become the Malaysian Prime Minister, was pressed to intervene to avoid a repeat of the communal clashes that had taken place in 1964. During his London trip to attend the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference in June 1965, the Tunku decided that severing Singapore from the federation was the only course and communicated this to his deputy, Tun Abdul Razak, who was instructed to sound out the senior Malaysian ministers and lay the groundwork for separation.[14] By the time the Tunku returned to Kuala Lumpur on 5 August, Singapore’s days in the federation were numbered.[15]

The week leading to 9 August 1965 was a busy time for the leaders of both countries as by this time, separation had become a certainty.[16] Negotiations were, however, done in complete secrecy. In Singapore, not only were civil servants and permanent secretaries kept in the dark, but some senior *** cabinet members, most notably Deputy Prime Minister Toh Chin Chye and Culture Minister Rajaratnam, were also clueless. Leading the negotiations for Singapore was then Finance Minister Goh Keng Swee, and for Malaysia, Tun Razak.[17] Razak was aiming to convene a federal parliament sitting on 9 August and was pushing for the legal paperwork for the release of Singapore to be tabled at that session.[18] In Singapore, Lee had asked then Law Minister E. W. Barker to draft the separation agreement at the end of July, along with other legal documents such as the Proclamation of Independence.[19]

As the deadline of 9 August neared, Goh and Barker made arrangements to travel to Kuala Lumpur to finalise the separation, arriving quietly in the capital on 6 August. Lee, who was in Cameron Highlands at that time, left for Kuala Lumpur and also arrived on 6 August to study and approve the separation documents. Thereafter, the separation draft prepared by Barker occupied the attention of five men – Razak, Malaysian Attorney-General Kadir Yusof, Malaysian Home Affairs Minister Ismail bin Dato Abdul Rahman, Barker and Goh. The final version, which included a few amendments and insertions, were typed late that night and signed by Goh, Barker, Razak, Ismail, Malaysian Finance Minister Tan Siew Sin and Malaysian Minister for Works V. T. Sambanthan well after midnight.[20]

After Lee was shown the final signed separation documents by Barker, he called Toh and Rajaratnam in Singapore to meet him the following morning. Arriving in Kuala Lumpur separately on 7 August, both Toh and Rajaratnam were particularly distraught when Lee told them of the news, and were not willing to sign the agreement.[21] However, a letter written by the Tunku to Toh stressing the former’s irrevocable decision – that there was “absolutely no other way out” – left them with no choice.[22] Realising that their persistence to pursue the status quo could well mean bloodshed, both Toh and Rajaratnam reluctantly signed.[23]

------

Many rallied behind the news of the separation with relief although the manner of its announcement came as a shock and was initially greeted with disappointment and regret.[32] It was slightly less than two years ago that the people of Singapore had backed Lee’s merger through their votes in the September 1962 referendum.[33] However when merger came, the greater share of it was marked by constant differences and bitter political wrangling between leaders of the two nations.[34] Although all signs were pointing to trouble, very few were prepared for the dramatic end to Singapore’s union with Malaysia.

http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/history/events/dc1efe7a-8159-40b2-9244-cdb078755013
Interesting document:

Agreement relating to the separation of Singapore from Malaysia as an independent and sovereign State. Signed at Kuala Lumpur, on 7 August 1965
https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 563/volume-563-I-8206-English.pdf
 

NazgulKing

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2009
2,371
3
38
34
#18
The real reason why the Scots are even contemplating this is because they are sick and tired of being sold out by the London government which has been widely viewed outside London as being to damn close to the very bankers who have screwed over Britain. That and Thatcher famously aided in the destruction of industry in the north side of England and did nothing to even alleviate it. Our dear LKY is a notorious admirer of Thatcher.

So decades of bad London policy and plenty of citizens are sick and tired of being taken for granted. Even if Scotland stays in the UK in a razor thin margin, it itself is a damning indictment to the politicians in London.

And does this not sound familiar?
 

Last edited:

NazgulKing

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2009
2,371
3
38
34
#19
They can't stomach the working style of our LKY. Protest riots will be on streets.

That's the primary root of all problems these western countries are having. Too much.freedm and too much human rights.

If LKY today tell the Scots to have ISA,detention without trial charge. U will see protests on the streets

Or not to have unemployment benefits?

Or to have death penalty fo capital charges?
The last time they had an LKY type PM, i.e. Thatcher, lots of them lost their jobs and they sure as hell will not support another twit like Thatcher, who is muttered in the same breath as King John and Satan by people living from Liverpool to Scotland.

SO NO. LKY will be definitely bad for them.
 

Last edited:

kandinsky

Moderator
Staff member
Apr 26, 2008
3,014
24
38
#20
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom