Questions to D30 users again:)


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tomshen

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1. Do u use battery grip?
2. Can I mix up 1st and 3rd party BP511 in battery grip?
3. How much is the remote cable control? Do I need to get the one with timer?
4. When using flash at Av mode, how to determine a suitable shutter speed? I found the shutter speed never changes whether or not flash is on. Under some situations, e.g. white backgroud (wall), the whole picture is washed out. Even if I when to increase shutter speed, it stops when exposure compansation reaches -2. So how?
 

ckiang

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Originally posted by tomshen
1. Do u use battery grip?
2. Can I mix up 1st and 3rd party BP511 in battery grip?
3. How much is the remote cable control? Do I need to get the one with timer?
4. When using flash at Av mode, how to determine a suitable shutter speed? I found the shutter speed never changes whether or not flash is on. Under some situations, e.g. white backgroud (wall), the whole picture is washed out. Even if I when to increase shutter speed, it stops when exposure compansation reaches -2. So how?
#4 is due to a poor flash implementation of flash by Canon. On other cameras, the camera will automatically select the correct flash sync shutter speeds in aperture priority mode. D30 and G1 automatically uses slow sync, so the shutter speeds are "all over the place". Being so, shutter speeds can actually drop below hand holdable speeds. And never focus and recompose if you are using flash. The Canon users will be able to tell you more about this.

Fortunately on the higher end bodies like the 1v, you can set a custom function to limit the minimum shutter speed.

Regards
CK
 

tomshen

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Ckiang, thx for yr info. You don't want to join the dark side, ah??;p

So how to solve this flash problem? I know there is a custom function to force shutter speed at 1/200 but isn't it not good!
 

ckiang

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Originally posted by tomshen
Ckiang, thx for yr info. You don't want to join the dark side, ah??;p

So how to solve this flash problem? I know there is a custom function to force shutter speed at 1/200 but isn't it not good!
I am too heavily into the other side and it's expensive to switch systems. :D

Can't do lower, like 1/60? When doing indoor flash, I usually use Manual mode. More control.

Regards
CK
 

tomshen

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yup M mode can solve the problem but once again I have no idea about whether the exposure is correct. Really have to shift to P or Full Auto?
 

jasonpgc

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#4 Use the Av mode with flash set to H sync mode.

or Use TV mode and set the shutter speed to your camera's flash sync range,

else use M instead of AV and meter with CW or partial.
 

tomshen

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I already set flash to H mode but the pic still looked washed out. Guess the onli way is by either using a meter or setting to auto mode, correct?
 

StreetShooter

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For Av mode, there is a custom function to set shutter speed at 1/200, or auto. The default is 1/200 (fixed).

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canond30/page9.asp

(See custom function 06)

I agree with CK - just use manual mode and set whatever aperture and speed you want (within reasonable limits lah). The flash will take care of the rest.
 

Shadus

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Originally posted by ckiang


#4 is due to a poor flash implementation of flash by Canon. On other cameras, the camera will automatically select the correct flash sync shutter speeds in aperture priority mode. D30 and G1 automatically uses slow sync, so the shutter speeds are "all over the place". Being so, shutter speeds can actually drop below hand holdable speeds. And never focus and recompose if you are using flash. The Canon users will be able to tell you more about this.

Fortunately on the higher end bodies like the 1v, you can set a custom function to limit the minimum shutter speed.

Regards
CK
EXCUSE me! :angry:

For canon, Av mode is the 'fill-in' flash mode. It is not poor flash implementation. It is meant to be this way. In Av mode, the camera will automatically select the correct flash exposure for you if you're using E-TTL enabled flash (eg. like 420ex, 550ex, sigmaEF500 etc). In the mode, the shutter speed will follow the exposure required for the surrounding ambient light. Hence, it'll not change whether the flash is on or off.

There is probably other reasons why your picture is washed out. Care to pose an example here?

Besides exposure compensation, you might like to talk about flash compensation instead.
 

Tweek

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that's the problem I've been having with my EOS300...well it might be an intended thingee by Canon, but it sure is pretty troublesome. At least for the amateur user like my Dad, it's hard for him to take indoor flash pictures. Use P mode, usually DOF is too shallow. Use Av mode cannot, cos it's fill-flash. Use M mode, he doesn't know what aperture to set!

I just acquired a third party auto flash and tried it on the EOS300. Then I realised the way to use the flash with the EOS300 in M mode, just set to the sync speed and any aperture I want, and match that aperture in the auto flash.

Seriously, I would rather Canon cameras implement their flash the conventional way...although I know "conventional" is a very subjective term.
 

Tweek

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Originally posted by Shadus


I dun understand it. In P mode, you can set the aperture as well. Why do you say its too shallow? Just change the aperture to get more DOF.
In P mode can set aperture? Next time show me leh...I don't know how to. Or maybe EOS300 too lousy liao, so cannot. :D

When I use the flash in P mode, the shutter speed will be set to 1/90s, and depending on the lighting conditions, usually the EOS300 will decide to use F4.0, which is too shallow. Sometimes my subjects are at different distances and not all will be in focus.
 

zapp!

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Go read your manual...i think in P mode you can turn the wheel to change the settings...of course it should be in half-stop differences...

f4 1/90 might become f/5.6 1/60...
 

Shadus

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Originally posted by zapp!
Go read your manual...i think in P mode you can turn the wheel to change the settings...of course it should be in half-stop differences...

f4 1/90 might become f/5.6 1/60...
err...heh heh.. I realised my mistake too so I quickly delete my post. Apparantly, server not fast enuff.

I think EOS300 cannot do it. Its fixed at f4 1/90
 

Tweek

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Originally posted by zapp!
Go read your manual...i think in P mode you can turn the wheel to change the settings...of course it should be in half-stop differences...

f4 1/90 might become f/5.6 1/60...
yar I know...but the shutter speed will be slower than flash sync. Does that matter much? Prob not right. Ok will try when I have the chance.
 

ckiang

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Originally posted by Shadus


EXCUSE me! :angry:

For canon, Av mode is the 'fill-in' flash mode. It is not poor flash implementation. It is meant to be this way. In Av mode, the camera will automatically select the correct flash exposure for you if you're using E-TTL enabled flash (eg. like 420ex, 550ex, sigmaEF500 etc). In the mode, the shutter speed will follow the exposure required for the surrounding ambient light. Hence, it'll not change whether the flash is on or off.

There is probably other reasons why your picture is washed out. Care to pose an example here?

Besides exposure compensation, you might like to talk about flash compensation instead.
Disclaimer: This is not meant as a flame.

IMHO, slow-sync should not be a default setting. The Av setting on the D30 allows the shutter do go below flash sync speed without the user explicitly setting slow sync, which is not a very good implementation. Most other cameras will automatically set the flash sync shutter speed when a flash is detected and powered.

This is very bad if you are shooting in low light, want to use Av, and you get shutter speeds like 1/8s. With a Canon system, the only way to shoot with flash at a desired aperture without the shutter speed dropping below hand holdable speeds seems to be the M mode.

Well, at least there's the custom function to limit the shutter speed.

Regards
CK
 

ckiang

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Originally posted by Tweek


yar I know...but the shutter speed will be slower than flash sync. Does that matter much? Prob not right. Ok will try when I have the chance.
It's OK to sync at a speed lower than the flash sync speed. This is known as 'slow sync'. Be careful of shutter speeds below your minimum hand holdable speed. Also be careful of subject movement under slow shutter speeds - you will have 2 images, one frozen by the flash, the other is a blur image of the subject who moved.

Regards
CK
 

Tweek

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Originally posted by ckiang


It's OK to sync at a speed lower than the flash sync speed. This is known as 'slow sync'. Be careful of shutter speeds below your minimum hand holdable speed. Also be careful of subject movement under slow shutter speeds - you will have 2 images, one frozen by the flash, the other is a blur image of the subject who moved.
Ok, thanks ckiang!
 

JasonTan

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it's not that Canon has bad implementation on it's flash system. IMHO Canon EOS camera with it's speedlite ETTL flash system is a perfect combination. My D30 with 550EX give me spot on exposure everytime. The problem is many ppl did not fully understand how thier dedicated ETTL in canon speedlite works !!

Read your manual thoroughly once more and give it a try. If you need further in read this article :
http://teladesign.com/photo/eos-flash/index.html

Hope that helps.

Jason
 

ckiang

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Originally posted by JasonTan
it's not that Canon has bad implementation on it's flash system. IMHO Canon EOS camera with it's speedlite ETTL flash system is a perfect combination. My D30 with 550EX give me spot on exposure everytime. The problem is many ppl did not fully understand how thier dedicated ETTL in canon speedlite works !!

Read your manual thoroughly once more and give it a try. If you need further in read this article :
http://teladesign.com/photo/eos-flash/index.html

Hope that helps.

Jason
Can you recompose and shoot a scene with dark background using flash, on a D30 + Speedlite without overexposing the subject (without preflash, without using the other AF points)? I think this is a very common problem as I am told flash exposure is calculated from the active focussing point (which is now pointing in the dark).

Regards
CK
 

Red Dawn

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Originally posted by tomshen
1. Do u use battery grip?
2. Can I mix up 1st and 3rd party BP511 in battery grip?
3. How much is the remote cable control? Do I need to get the one with timer?
4. When using flash at Av mode, how to determine a suitable shutter speed? I found the shutter speed never changes whether or not flash is on. Under some situations, e.g. white backgroud (wall), the whole picture is washed out. Even if I when to increase shutter speed, it stops when exposure compansation reaches -2. So how?
1. Yes, i use the grip most of the time, except when i want to travel light (usually with just one lens) and do street shooting.

2. You can try and then tell us about it here :) I have been using 2 original BP511 (one from my old G1, the other from the D30 package) and have only recently added a third party battery. And i haven't really used the third party one much.

3. remote is about $90. no need to get the one with timer - the kind of photography i do doesn't need it, and chances are the kind you do don't either ;)

4. I never use anything other than Manual mode in flash. Manual mode and flash use goes hand in hand.

How to tell whether you're within the ballpark exposure when u are in manual? Notice that little marker beneath the exposure compensation scale when in manual mode? That's an indication of how far u are from the ideal exposure the camera thinks you should be at.

Read the article JasonTan posted. it's the quinessential bible for flash use with Canon's strobes.
 

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