questions abt flash


alancwr

New Member
Sep 23, 2007
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#1
currently, im using canon 1000D with my 18-55mm kit lens.

i just came back from a 4D3N trip @ KL, i borrowed my fren's 50mm f1.8, but i kinda feel very restrictions on not being able to zoom, so end up after the 1st night i changed back to my normal kit lens, thank god i did not do a impulse buy for the 50mm f1.8

but this comes to another problem that i have, my 18-55mm have quite a limitation especially when i comes to taking "night photography"

i have the intention to get tamron 17-50mm f2.8 non-vc, as i believe its a step up my kit lens and the aperture being big enuff, but would having a flash add to its advantage??

i've never used a flash before, so i would like to enquire here, before i actually commit to 1, i'm more to walkabout photography.

1.) does the DSLR actually "recognize" that there's external flash attached to it??
2.) the metering, will it be adjusted based on the lighting provided by the flash??

i know its a long post, sorry :)
:eek:
 

Aug 21, 2010
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#2
while i am not a pro and just a newbie photographer as well, i am just curious to know what limitations have you faced in your 18-55 lens for night photography?

maybe if you are able to highlight that, you might get some specific responses from the experienced folks here that could help you (and me in the process too ;) )
 

alancwr

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Sep 23, 2007
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#3
hmmm, i find that the aperture is kinda not big enuff to accomodate some of the pictures that i tried taking whereas when i go up on the ISO its too bright i guess
 

Octarine

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Jan 3, 2008
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#4
Take your time reading: http://www.photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

I hope you don't expect that your flash will illuminate landscapes and buildings at night. But if you want to use a tripod then I don't see where your kit lens falls short compared to the Tamron in terms of aperture. Have a look at the Night Photography section. Read, read, read ... An additional look at the newbies guides might also be helpful.
 

Octarine

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#5
hmmm, i find that the aperture is kinda not big enuff to accomodate some of the pictures that i tried taking whereas when i go up on the ISO its too bright i guess
Are you using Manual exposure Mode? Otherwise the camera would compensate for higher ISO. But still: why? Are you trying to make handheld shots at night?
 

alancwr

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Sep 23, 2007
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#6
Take your time reading: http://www.photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

I hope you don't expect that your flash will illuminate landscapes and buildings at night. But if you want to use a tripod then I don't see where your kit lens falls short compared to the Tamron in terms of aperture. Have a look at the Night Photography section. Read, read, read ... An additional look at the newbies guides might also be helpful.
nope nope i'm not hoping that it will illuminate bulidings, its just that i would prefer it if it could at least illuminate the subject thats like 10-30metres in front of me?

i dun quite like using tripod although i knows its kinda "must" for night photography, cos i prefer travelling light
 

Aug 21, 2010
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#7
@TS

well, i would try various combinations of iso, shutter speed and aperture ... however, if your shutter speed is too slow, then tripod is a must...

also, on many dslr, there is a little scale on the lcd which shows if a combo of shutter/aperture/iso is overexposed or underexposed ... i find this is quite useful to get the combo near zero ...

just a noob thought ...
 

alancwr

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Sep 23, 2007
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#8
@TS

well, i would try various combinations of iso, shutter speed and aperture ... however, if your shutter speed is too slow, then tripod is a must...

also, on many dslr, there is a little scale on the lcd which shows if a combo of shutter/aperture/iso is overexposed or underexposed ... i find this is quite useful to get the combo near zero ...

just a noob thought ...
u referring to the histogram??
 

Aug 21, 2010
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#9
no.. not the histogram.. this is called EV bar (at least that's the name for my camera) - and it goes from -3 to +3 or -5 to +5 depending on the camera

try this ... just change aperture or shutter speed using the dial, and as you change it, observe the lcd - this bar will change ... try to get a combo near the centre... if the ev bar is on the left, your picture is under-exposed, and if its on the right, its overexposed..
 

Jul 2, 2010
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#10
@TS

well, i would try various combinations of iso, shutter speed and aperture ... however, if your shutter speed is too slow, then tripod is a must...

also, on many dslr, there is a little scale on the lcd which shows if a combo of shutter/aperture/iso is overexposed or underexposed ... i find this is quite useful to get the combo near zero ...

just a noob thought ...
uhhh if you're referring to getting the exposure compensation to 0 in manual mode then i would have to tell you its damn useless :(

its still following your camera metering and you'll be better off just leaving it in aperture mode and open to the widest

as for TS i have some suggestions for you to slightly overcome the limitations of your kit lens

everytime before you shoot, take note of the decided shutter speed of your camera and prepare yourself to hold that long.
mantain proper shooting posture
if possible, always find some sort of support, railings, pillars
open your lens to the widest aperture by not zooming in.

lastly, if all of the above dont work, BBB the tamron but i'll still advise you to go for VC version as you mention you want to do slow shutter speed(ambient exposures) so the VC will be really helpful.
 

Jul 2, 2010
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#11
and to answer TS question, yes the camera will detect the flash and trigger it on the shot. and whether the exposure stays the same depends on whether your flash is a TTL(so called auto) flash or manual flash
 

alancwr

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Sep 23, 2007
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#12
uhhh if you're referring to getting the exposure compensation to 0 in manual mode then i would have to tell you its damn useless :(

its still following your camera metering and you'll be better off just leaving it in aperture mode and open to the widest

as for TS i have some suggestions for you to slightly overcome the limitations of your kit lens

everytime before you shoot, take note of the decided shutter speed of your camera and prepare yourself to hold that long.
mantain proper shooting posture
if possible, always find some sort of support, railings, pillars
open your lens to the widest aperture by not zooming in.

lastly, if all of the above dont work, BBB the tamron but i'll still advise you to go for VC version as you mention you want to do slow shutter speed(ambient exposures) so the VC will be really helpful.
what is BBB??
i've been reading reviews abt the VC n non-vc version still trying to weigh whether its worth the few hundred bucks to get an extra "vc" factor...
probably i'll try to consider if i really need the vc, since my photography is more of walkabout n protraits stuff
 

alancwr

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Sep 23, 2007
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#13
and to answer TS question, yes the camera will detect the flash and trigger it on the shot. and whether the exposure stays the same depends on whether your flash is a TTL(so called auto) flash or manual flash
dun quite understand...
if the flash is on auto, will the dslr compensate for the expsoure?
meaning it will so-call calculate the shutter for the light produced?
 

Jul 2, 2010
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#14
dun quite understand...
if the flash is on auto, will the dslr compensate for the expsoure?
meaning it will so-call calculate the shutter for the light produced?
that depends if the flash has the "auto" mode..theres alot more to that than just the dslr compensating for the flash and vice versa. flash photography is an entirely new ball game. do read up more on the article fellow cs-er Octarine has provided. that is a very comprehensive article

as for the VC vs non VC, i really advice you to go for the VC since you're into walkabout. it really increases your number of keepable shots especially if you dont like to use a tripod. ultimately your choice but if i were to redo my purchase again, i'd save abit longer and go for the vc. do note that the tamron is actually not much faster than the kit lens if you're talking about handholdabilty. f/2.8 is just 1 stop away from f/3.5 and 3 stops away from f/5.6. dont forget to factor in the canon 3-4 stop IS. if you really want to handhold for low light you should look at lenses like f/1.4 or f/1.2
 

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alancwr

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Sep 23, 2007
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#15
that depends if the flash has the "auto" mode..theres alot more to that than just the dslr compensating for the flash and vice versa. flash photography is an entirely new ball game. do read up more on the article fellow cs-er Octarine has provided. that is a very comprehensive article

as for the VC vs non VC, i really advice you to go for the VC since you're into walkabout. it really increases your number of keepable shots especially if you dont like to use a tripod. ultimately your choice but if i were to redo my purchase again, i'd save abit longer and go for the vc. do note that the tamron is actually not much faster than the vc if you're talking about handholdabilty. f/2.8 is just 1 stop away from f/3.5 and 3 stops away from f/5.6. dont forget to factor in the canon 3-4 stop IS. if you really want to handhold for low light you should look at lenses like f/1.4 or f/1.2
okay noted....will keep that in mind
 

GRbenji

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May 24, 2010
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#16
Take your time reading: http://www.photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

I hope you don't expect that your flash will illuminate landscapes and buildings at night. But if you want to use a tripod then I don't see where your kit lens falls short compared to the Tamron in terms of aperture. Have a look at the Night Photography section. Read, read, read ... An additional look at the newbies guides might also be helpful.
@TS

well, i would try various combinations of iso, shutter speed and aperture ... however, if your shutter speed is too slow, then tripod is a must...
A tripod is not an exact substitude for a fast lens.;)

TS mentioned in 1st post about walkabout and night photography. Walkabout likely involved non-stationary subject. This requires a sufficiently fast shutter and a tripod won't freeze the subject. Even flash is no direct substitude for fast lens when capturing moving subject with properly exposed background. Fast lens can reduce the ghosting effect here.
 

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Octarine

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Jan 3, 2008
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#17
dun quite understand...
if the flash is on auto, will the dslr compensate for the expsoure?
meaning it will so-call calculate the shutter for the light produced?
Not the shutter. The flash is much faster than the shutter. The camera will "tell" the flash how much light to release.
Read the article I have provided, it describes the basics of flash metering (which is different from exposure metering). You need to understand both metering approaches and what the camera will do when set to different modes. Canon systems work differently in Auto and P, compared to Av, Tv and M.
 

SilverPine

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2007
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#18
If you are going into Night Photographic, then tripod is a MUST. Your 18-55mm kit lens is a hidden L lens keep it, I found out when I was reviewing my old flower closeup photo with 100% zoom and compare it other photo taken by L lens.

For walkabout photographic, at night flash only good at a specific distance only, if the background is long distance away then no much help from flash, up ISO will help but still depend how bright the subjects are.

.
 

#19
If you are going into Night Photographic, then tripod is a MUST. Your 18-55mm kit lens is a hidden L lens keep it, I found out when I was reviewing my old flower closeup photo with 100% zoom and compare it other photo taken by L lens.

For walkabout photographic, at night flash only good at a specific distance only, if the background is long distance away then no much help from flash, up ISO will help but still depend how bright the subjects are.

.
I totally agree with this, if you talk about night photography then Tripod is priority. No matter how big your aperture can go, if you want to shoot hand-held, you will still need to slow down your shutter and increase your ISO pretty much. However, if you are still thinking of buying the 17-50mm f/2.8, I would say its a good lens :)
 

alancwr

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Sep 23, 2007
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#20
i appreciate everybody for the comments n suggestions will definately look into the options available before i actually jump into the flash,

as for now i'll start saving up for tammy 17-50 after all the reviews i have read, i believe its a good lens to have in the inventory at least in my case where i prefer having zoom n bigger aperture den what i'm having now
 

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