Pushing of negative


pikapig

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Aug 17, 2007
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I google n did some readings but it confuse me still n i believe some newbies who are interested in pushing b&w would like to know as well.

In simple terms, when i shoot at iso at 1600, i can request the lab to push it to 1600 for me while de negative could be a iso 400?

Sorry for my noob question. Initially though could join de outing n raise my question there but i missed de recent outing.
 

virtualme78

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Jul 21, 2010
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www.capturealifestudio.com
if i remember correctly, labs can only push 1.5 stops at most which means you can only push your 400iso film to 1250... please correct me if i'm wrong.
 

kgston

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Jan 23, 2007
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pikapig said:
I google n did some readings but it confuse me still n i believe some newbies who are interested in pushing b&w would like to know as well.

In simple terms, when i shoot at iso at 1600, i can request the lab to push it to 1600 for me while de negative could be a iso 400?

Sorry for my noob question. Initially though could join de outing n raise my question there but i missed de recent outing.
That is correct..usually up to around 2 stops..though some labs may restrict the amount they are willing to push for various reasons:)
 

pikapig

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Thanks guys
I realise that there are some pictures that are showing very dark contrasty vs some normal black and white, is it due to push concept as well?

How do i know when should i try pushing the negative?
 

calebk

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Jul 25, 2006
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pikapig said:
Thanks guys
I realise that there are some pictures that are showing very dark contrasty vs some normal black and white, is it due to push concept as well?

How do i know when should i try pushing the negative?
Yes you will definitely get an increase in contrast, especially a loss of detail in the shadow area. This is due to the fact that pushing basically means you're underexposing and then raising the exposure through development time. To grasp this, you also need to understand how developing works.

When should you push? When you are shooting low speed film and you need a fast shutter speed. Take note that the fundamentals of pushing film means that you have to shoot the whole roll at the same EI (that is to say ISO). Also take note that not all films respond well to pushing. A couple of the more well known ones are Ilford HP5 Plus and Kodak Tri-X 400.

Here is a sample of Tri-X pushed to EI 1600:
 

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pikapig

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Hi calEbk

Thanks, i more or less get wat u mean here.
Do u know how much much does lab charge for pushing of negative and which are the ones that i can find in singapore?

Common ones are ruby n fotohub, wat about triple D? Or are there other labs that do it?
N where can i find trix 400 locally? Thanks
 

calebk

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Jul 25, 2006
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pikapig said:
Hi calEbk

Thanks, i more or less get wat u mean here.
Do u know how much much does lab charge for pushing of negative and which are the ones that i can find in singapore?

Common ones are ruby n fotohub, wat about triple D? Or are there other labs that do it?
N where can i find trix 400 locally? Thanks
I'm not sure how much they charge, but pushing will definitely incur additional costs. I went to Konota before I started developing my own film and I'd say they charge quite reasonably for developing plus scanning. They are friendly and service is good too.

You can get Tri-X at Ruby.
 

newghost

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Sep 17, 2009
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Here's Fotohub's charges for B&W 35mm

1. push 1 stop - $2
2. developing cost - $5
3. 16 base jpg scan - $13.90

not cheap, meaning every time i click, i'm down by around $0.70... hahaha! 4 base scanning will be cheaper obviously...
 

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raytoei

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Jan 14, 2010
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okay, let's get the terms right.

Box speed is the speed written on the box, Tri-x 400 box speed is 400 iso.

Push - pretend the iso speed is higher than box speed, from 400 iso to 1600 iso. So when you shoot, you under-expose your picture by 2 stops.

However, if you develop the negatives at box speed of 400, your negatives will be under developed. So you need to compensate by developing it as if the film as a box speed of 1600.

So, Push = UnderExpose film and Over-develop Negative.

My suggestion is to stick to box speed and experiment with various films, before venturing into push.
 

calebk

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Jul 25, 2006
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raytoei said:
...

My suggestion is to stick to box speed and experiment with various films, before venturing into push.
Well said. Shoot a few rolls at box speed and learn how your camera and the film behaves first before attempting to push film.
 

Hazelnut09

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Mar 30, 2011
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raytoei said:
Push - pretend the iso speed is higher than box speed, from 400 iso to 1600 iso. So when you shoot, you under-expose your picture by 2 stops.
Hi! I'm new here and is interested to know more about pushing film too. May I know how to pretend the iso speed is higher than the box speed? Does it mean to manually set the iso speed on the cam to iso 1600?

I'm using Olympus mju II. Can I push film with it?
 

raytoei

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2010
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can't find the manual for your cute camera. can u set the iso manually in the camera ? if yes, then change it from your current speed (say 100 or 400 iso) to 1600. the camera will then assume the film is an iso 1600 film. When you develop your film, tell the lab to push it to 2 stops. (2 because it is from 400->800 and 800->1600).

caveats:

* not all films can push. fomapan and agfa is notorious for not being to push beyond 1 stop.
* generally, you can't push c-41 film like Kodak 400BWCN or Ilford XP-2. But I know that Fotohub in Commonwealth allows pushing of C-41 film by max 2 stop. Only B&W films. I doubt if neighbourhood shops know what is push.
* Pushing = Higher contrast and lost of shadow details.

hope this helps
 

Hazelnut09

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Mar 30, 2011
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My camera is a fully auto compact. Just load the film and can shoot. So that mean i would not be able to push film with this camera since there's no way to trick the camera?

I tried ilford delta before and shoot it at box speed. The end result is very grey instead of black and white. Can I say that only pushing film will make the photo more contrasty with more black? Without pushing, it is normal to get a grayscale photo instead for bw film? I don't like grey photos...
 

Potatoboy

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Nov 15, 2010
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My camera is a fully auto compact. Just load the film and can shoot. So that mean i would not be able to push film with this camera since there's no way to trick the camera?

I tried ilford delta before and shoot it at box speed. The end result is very grey instead of black and white. Can I say that only pushing film will make the photo more contrasty with more black? Without pushing, it is normal to get a grayscale photo instead for bw film? I don't like grey photos...
Whao, i never knew CS got a place for all the filmy people. =D
Anyway, MJU 2 can't set ISO, but i have a way to push my film... by changing the canister... =D For more info, can always sms me or PM me.
Haha, the so call GREY picture are actually what people wants, TONAL RANGE. But of cause, there should still be a near absolut black and near "untouch" white.
Easy what to get More black and white... AUTO-LEVEL in photoshop...
Or... take subject that are HIGH in contrast, so the picture will be denied grey
Or... use filter... not applicable for mju2
or... push process your film in certain developer at vertain concentration...
or... use lucky 100... very black and very white... due to thin emulsion+almost non existence of anti-halo layer... hahahah!

Hope this help! =D
 

excelsius

New Member
Feb 23, 2006
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My camera is a fully auto compact. Just load the film and can shoot. So that mean i would not be able to push film with this camera since there's no way to trick the camera?

I tried ilford delta before and shoot it at box speed. The end result is very grey instead of black and white. Can I say that only pushing film will make the photo more contrasty with more black? Without pushing, it is normal to get a grayscale photo instead for bw film? I don't like grey photos...
If the image is well exposed and the negs are well developed, there should be a good tonal range from black to white, depending on the scene. While pushing does increase contrast, with other variables, one should always learn to look at the light first. That's the first thing that affects contrast in your image. Figure out the other variables later.
 

yudzz88

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Jan 8, 2008
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if it's grey with different tonal and detail, you can adjust it in photoshop or use high-contrast paper and do some dodging and burning.:)

in some special situation, I prefer my negative to look flat and greyish.

by pushing film you can get more contrast film, with expenses of detail and grain.

other way to make contrasty negative is to use filter, red filter will be a good starting point.



My camera is a fully auto compact. Just load the film and can shoot. So that mean i would not be able to push film with this camera since there's no way to trick the camera?

I tried ilford delta before and shoot it at box speed. The end result is very grey instead of black and white. Can I say that only pushing film will make the photo more contrasty with more black? Without pushing, it is normal to get a grayscale photo instead for bw film? I don't like grey photos...