# Pro-photogs like to point their flash upwards

#### La Fontaine

##### New Member
In many events like dinners, weddings etc, I noticed that the photogs almost always point their flash upwards to the ceiling.

And that ceiling is some thing like 6 to 8m high, and then, those ceilings are neither flat nor white. Wonder how much flash light return you get from it.:dunno:

So, this is something that I is way beyond me. Hope someone could throw some light here.:think:

#### eleveninth

##### Senior Member
In many events like dinners, weddings etc, I noticed that the photogs almost always point their flash upwards to the ceiling.

And that ceiling is some thing like 6 to 8m high, and then, those ceilings are neither flat nor white. Wonder how much flash light return you get from it.:dunno:

So, this is something that I is way beyond me. Hope someone could throw some light here.:think:

what!? you never hear of bounce to infinity!?!?!. tsk tsk

#### edutilos-

##### Senior Member
In many events like dinners, weddings etc, I noticed that the photogs almost always point their flash upwards to the ceiling.

And that ceiling is some thing like 6 to 8m high, and then, those ceilings are neither flat nor white. Wonder how much flash light return you get from it.:dunno:

So, this is something that I is way beyond me. Hope someone could throw some light here.:think:
Do they have bounce card..

#### La Fontaine

##### New Member
Bounce to Infinity - WoW, this morning of the jap-goh-mei, I learn something new, a niu Theorem.

#### ricohflex

##### Senior Member
They may have a diffuser (the white plastic thing) over their flash head. Or a built in bounce deflector that can be pulled out from the flash head.

Pros are not stupid.
They may have the flash attached in bounce position but turned off the flash when there is open sky or high ceiling.
Why?
So that when the photo subject/model/wedding party moves into a room with low ceiling, then they can just turn on the flash. There is no need to panic and hastily put on a flash/take it off/ then put it on again.
They are ready for all eventualities.

#### saberlancer

##### New Member
Their flash bounce card shd be up lah..

#### Zeisser

##### Senior Member
Most exeperienced photogs will know that direct flash causes harsh reflections on thier subjects. Hence most
will point their flash upwards to bounce with card or with light spheres etc. I prefer to bounce with fill in order
to light up my subjects evenly :

Taken at Eastpoint Mall where the ceiling is very high but it's has glass covered roof so the sunlight
helped in getting this shot. It was around noon.

At that time I was still shooting film.

Now that have switched to digital am still applying the bounce and fill method :

NTUC Conference Hall

So it's a matter of trail and error and with digital age one can try as many as possible but not during the film era though we don't have that luxury.

Last edited:

#### Sion

##### Senior Member
Most exeperienced photogs will know that direct flash causes harsh reflections on thier subjects. Hence most
will point their flash upwards to bounce with card or with light spheres etc. I prefer to bounce with fill in order
to light up my subjects evenly :

Taken at Eastpoint Mall where the ceiling is very high but it's has glass covered roof so the sunlight
helped in getting this shot. It was around noon.

At that time I was still shooting film.
Have you got a close up shot of the makeup auntie?

She looks so hot.

#### catchlights

##### Moderator
Staff member
I do this at times, stright up without bounce card, cos I know what effects that I want.
Most of the time the small built in bounce card is good enough, and some time point a little backward of the ceiling.
All these are base on your undertanding of ambient lights, the flash, the environment and what effects you want to get, and how to get it.

Don't brush it off if you have not seen the photos.

#### Zeisser

##### Senior Member
Have you got a close up shot of the makeup auntie?

She looks so hot.
Ah you meant the hairstylist auntie You sly cat :bsmilie:

#### xtemujin

##### Senior Member
Amateurs train until they get it right... professionals train until they can't get it wrong.

#### pinholecam

##### Moderator
Staff member
Very often ISO is not that low.
Perhaps 800-1600.
So that gives the flash power added 'reach'.
The settings used also usually takes in some of the ambiance, so there is a margin of 'safety' for exposure+flash too.
Coupled with a forward fill with the bounce card, the method can work with a rather high ceiling.

The ones I don't get it are those who I think try to imitate the pros and bounce to sky.

#### catchlights

##### Moderator
Staff member
if you are shooting your subject less than 3-5 meters way, and the ceiling is 5 meter high, than make no sense use 90 degree up ceiling bounce without bounce card, unless raccoon eyes is your favourite style.

but if you shoot a general scene of a big ballroom with high ceiling using flash, to get more even flash lighting from near to far end, is to use flash set at ceiling bounce.

so at times you will have shoot with direct flash, or big bounce card, or small bounce card, or omni-bounce, or just ambient lights, that depends what is the situation and what effects you are going after.

#### airfins

##### Senior Member
Open sky also can shoot up using the white card to create catchlight in the subject's eyes

#### Zeisser

##### Senior Member
Very often ISO is not that low.
Perhaps 800-1600.
So that gives the flash power added 'reach'.
The settings used also usually takes in some of the ambiance, so there is a margin of 'safety' for exposure+flash too.
Coupled with a forward fill with the bounce card, the method can work with a rather high ceiling.

The ones I don't get it are those who I think try to imitate the pros and bounce to sky.
Your analogy is correct settings and ISO do play a part but I don't use bounce card to get the fill but rather
my flash has a small fill light to do the job.

#### Zeisser

##### Senior Member
if you are shooting your subject less than 3-5 meters way, and the ceiling is 5 meter high, than make no sense use 90 degree up ceiling bounce without bounce card, unless raccoon eyes is your favourite style.

but if you shoot a general scene of a big ballroom with high ceiling using flash, to get more even flash lighting from near to far end, is to use flash set at ceiling bounce.

so at times you will have shoot with direct flash, or big bounce card, or small bounce card, or omni-bounce, or just ambient lights, that depends what is the situation and what effects you are going after.
I do agree that some situations call for direct flash in order to achieve what was aimed for :

Shangrila Hotel Grand Ball Room

Last edited:

#### Sion

##### Senior Member
Pro-photogs point flash upwards.
Beginners point flash downwards.
Amateurs like you and me point flash at subjects.
Auntie shooters point flash backwards.

Last edited:

#### La Fontaine

##### New Member
Pro-photogs point flash upwards.
Beginners point flash downwards.
Amateurs like you and me point flash at subjects.
Auntie shooters point flash backwards.

Seen any type of shooter point the flash sideways?

I have - the crap shooters.:bsmilie: