PLS HELP, wishes to take up photography.. camera selection.


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sequitur

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Apr 17, 2003
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#1
hi there,

i wish to take up photography as a serious hobby.. i've already read photography books and all that as well as read reviews on cameras and all..

i know now's the digital age and everything... thus i need help and advice on what type of camera to buy.. i've a few choices according to my budget.


option A :

canon EOS 300 kit + tele lens ($798 i think but surely cheaper from camera shops) + EF 50mm f1.8 prime lens ($160)

accompanied with a "normal" digicam that is like around $500, and memory card.. uh.. $100 ?

all prices are list price.. i expect that if i throw in a tripod and bags and all it should more or less be the list price of the cameras. and maybe $100 less.

film camera is for "serious" shots and digicam is for "point and shooting" and for previewing how the image would/might look like on the film slr.

cons : eos 300 ain't really a good cam, the kit lenses are supposedly very lousy, and if i'm really gonna be VERY serious about photography i'm gonna need good lenses that cost around/at least $1000 per lens (right ?)

a "normal" digicam ... photo quality wise ? unknown..

pros : of course film cameras are traditional and sticking with traditional might be better..

total cost : about $1500+, and lenses that i have with film camera are not even top-notch or decent.


option B :

to get a very very good digicam that can allow me to control aperture and all that stuff..

of course

the budget can hopefully be lower than $1500.

i am considering getting the sony DSC-F717 or if a new replacement comes out by july/august (i'll only buy a camera then you see), then i'll buy the replacement. (727 ? :p )

i've read reviews and it seems the 717 is a really good camera. but it's not an SLR, not a DSLR, so i'm wondering how it will measure up to OPTION A's cameras settings.

pros : "IMAGE PREVIEW" with the same cam, shot taking with the same cam also.

cons : UNKNOWN ?

and of course

i can also consider alternatives to the 717. not the minolta dimage nor nikon coolpix but others such as

canon v3
canon IXUS S400
canon g3
canon s45
canon s50

any recommendations please ?

please bear in mind that i would like to have all the aperture and focus settings controls...


THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP !!!!!

:)
 

Zerstorer

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Jul 8, 2002
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#2
Do you just want to shoot nice sharp images or do you want to learn all the technical aspects of photography?

I don't recommend the F717 for learning as it lacks any form of manual control and has limited aperture/shutter settings. It does however give some of the best images possible from a consumer digicam.


Digital cameras with full manual settings come only from selected models from the traditional camera manufacturers.

e.g Canon A40/A70/G2/G3, Nikon CP4500/5700, Fuji S602...etc.

Consider buying 2nd hand stuff instead, you can get EOS50 or 30 for less than that EOS300 new and consider 2nd hand 3rd party lenses instead, as they will be much better than the kit lenses provided.
 

sequitur

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#3
hi

thanks for replying


i want to shoot nice and sharp and really beautiful images (landscapes and nights and some effects images) AND also learn about the technical aspects of photography.


the point about a film camera is that there's no "preview" so you'll only know if you screw up after the film is developed.

hmm.. yah, i understand the stuff about 2nd hand lenses, however everything will add up to a certain amount that might make it not worthwhile..

furthermore there's a lot of "film developing" costs.. which i'm quite unprepared to fork out coz i don't really come from a well-to-do family and i'm digging out a few year's of savings for this new hobby
 

Zerstorer

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#4
Originally posted by sequitur
hi

thanks for replying


i want to shoot nice and sharp and really beautiful images (landscapes and nights and some effects images) AND also learn about the technical aspects of photography.


the point about a film camera is that there's no "preview" so you'll only know if you screw up after the film is developed.

hmm.. yah, i understand the stuff about 2nd hand lenses, however everything will add up to a certain amount that might make it not worthwhile..

furthermore there's a lot of "film developing" costs.. which i'm quite unprepared to fork out coz i don't really come from a well-to-do family and i'm digging out a few year's of savings for this new hobby
Actually my reply wasn't to tell you which option (A or B) to take, but to inform you that your choices for A and B might not give you what you want.

Getting 2nd hand midrange Canon bodies and 2nd hand 3rd party "pro" lenses from Tokina/Sigma is achievable <$1500.

For digital, you can get the Dimage 7xx series or CP5700 or Fuji S602 or Olympus C5050 or Canon G2/G3 series with the amount of money you are looking at. The F717 might give you slightly sharper images in good lighting compared to the canons and fuji but it will not allow you to explore the more technical aspects.

Actually if you are patient you can even wait for another $1000 Canon D30 sale to come along and you might be able to start out with a DSLR.:)
 

K

Kiwi

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#5
sequitur,

I think you've read too much and are just confused over what u want. Don't be bogged down by camera shopping like mugging for your typical Singapore exam! It's good to compare prices and know camera specs but you need to ask yourself what u really want. I find trying to justify this and that from an academic approach works negatively when buying a camera.

Eg: EOS300 is not a bad camera! where did you get the idea from?

And I don't think a digicam is for you to take a shot, see if it's good, and then use your film cam to take the final picture. Though it's possible, and you're going in an "academic" direction here, I doubt you'll do it often once you get both types of camera.

I'm not really sure what you want as what you've written suggests to me you're lost! (I am also by your writing!)

But what I suggest is decide what you want the camera to do for you. Then decide on how much you're willing to spend. If possible, have a friend or friends to show you their cameras and handle them for a while.
 

sequitur

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#6
hmm.. okay...


i think the point about getting a SLR camera is really the problem with the lenses :confused:

DSLR = more ex lenses ... haha


hmm

but then again
(sorry)

any sony 717 users would like to comment on the 717 ?
 

sequitur

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#7
hey kiwi

yeah i'm damn lost !!
haha

like i said
i just want nice and beautiful pictures but still can learn about the technical aspects of photography


okay

here's more

my main purpose of getting camera is for landscape and surroundings photography

like maybe you know i walk along orchard road and "HEY" i see a nice "frame" that i would like captured in the best possible way on my camera and on picture.. yeah that kind of thing

or when i go travelling then take like mountains and rivers and what nots..
 

K

Kiwi

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#8
Actually if you are patient you can even wait for another $1000 Canon D30 sale to come along and you might be able to start out with a DSLR.:) [/B]


Arghhh?!! I really want to see who'd do that... Yah I just realized that's how much my D30 can fetch me now.

Well juz a personal opinion, even if I do upgrade to a higher end model, I'd never let my D30 go too easily to a stranger for that price! Would rather keep it. Theoretically, I feel the D30's technology can last me for many years to come. Any upgrade on my part is just to pamper myself.
 

Mar 28, 2003
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#9
I have a used once 50mm F1.8 for sale together with box and warranty (unfilled) for sale at $130... Mint and 3 months old....

Interested? Please sms me or call me at 96384866.;)
 

binbeto

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Behind a lens
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#10
A EoS 30/50 will be slightly better than teh Eos 300 as someone has pointed out.

But my guess will be that you won't need the added feature at the moment.

A good starting lens if you can opt out of the zoom lens bundled will be the 50/1.8.

After you have more $$ get a telephoto or wide angle. One at a time...

Tripod, dry cabinet and camera bag are a must.

For nikon equvalent, F65 and F80 provide value too.


Some of the lens from nikon camp that u will find useful next time.

24/2.8 $600
50/1.8 $180
85/1.8 $600
180/2.8 $950
80-200/2.8 $1500

60micro/2.8 $600.


All price are new and indicative.. see. not all are ver 1K except one.
 

Zerstorer

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Jul 8, 2002
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#11
Originally posted by Kiwi
Arghhh?!! I really want to see who'd do that... Yah I just realized that's how much my D30 can fetch me now.

Well juz a personal opinion, even if I do upgrade to a higher end model, I'd never let my D30 go too easily to a stranger for that price! Would rather keep it. Theoretically, I feel the D30's technology can last me for many years to come. Any upgrade on my part is just to pamper myself.
OT:
Saw this at offstone. Was snapped up in moment, verified by some others as a genuine sale.

Also saw Fuji S1Pro going for $1300 once....I'll be sorely tempted when such an opportunity comes again.:)
 

sequitur

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#12
okay

it's either

option A or option B

choose one and which is better ?

A : film SLR with snap happy digicam

B: prosumer digicam with manual controls.
 

K

Kiwi

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#13
Originally posted by sequitur
hi

i want to shoot nice and sharp and really beautiful images (landscapes and nights and some effects images) AND also learn about the technical aspects of photography.


the point about a film camera is that there's no "preview" so you'll only know if you screw up after the film is developed.

hmm.. yah, i understand the stuff about 2nd hand lenses, however everything will add up to a certain amount that might make it not worthwhile..

furthermore there's a lot of "film developing" costs.. which i'm quite unprepared to fork out coz i don't really come from a well-to-do family and i'm digging out a few year's of savings for this new hobby

Hmm, then I think digital is more suitable for you.

But if you really want to learn about the technical aspects of photography, you have to go with a film SLR or DSLR.

That's photography, it ain't a cheap hobby. Can be very addictive. People have spent hundreds or thousands within a year of taking it up or others have just given it up totally for a simple point and shoot after a few years bcos it's just too expensive a hobby.

Start out slow and easy if budget is a problem for you...
 

sequitur

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#14
Originally posted by Kiwi
Hmm, then I think digital is more suitable for you.

But if you really want to learn about the technical aspects of photography, you have to go with a film SLR or DSLR.

That's photography, it ain't a cheap hobby. Can be very addictive. People have spent hundreds or thousands within a year of taking it up or others have just given it up totally for a simple point and shoot after a few years bcos it's just too expensive a hobby.

Start out slow and easy if budget is a problem for you...

what about uh, SLR-LIKE cameras like canon g3 ? stuff that can let you control aperture and shutter and all the stuff also... can you still learn about the technical aspects if you use these slr-like cameras ?

(or also of course coolpix 5700 and all the rest)
 

Zerstorer

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#15
Originally posted by sequitur

B: prosumer digicam with manual controls.
This seems more suitable for you given your requirements.

However, the apparent lack of obvious different in DOF with digicams might frustrate you when u progress.

Also, bear in mind that when shooting film, all you need to learn is the techniques of photography.

When shooting digital, be prepared to learn all about image processing or you might end up disappointed with your images.
 

K

Kiwi

Guest
#16
Originally posted by sequitur
okay

it's either
option A or option B

choose one and which is better ?
A : film SLR with snap happy digicam
B: prosumer digicam with manual controls.
go for option B. Based on what I see you want...

why you want option A anyway? you can still do selected prints with digital (saves you on films!) and you can still be snap happy with a prosumer digicam.
 

sequitur

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#17
okay then thanks a lot !!


i think option B will thus be a rational choice.


so what would be a good recomended prosumer digicam ?

i think
just give a few models to compare will do.

not too many i'm confused .. :p
 

Zerstorer

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#18
Oh more thing as what Kiwi pointed out.

Try to buy 2nd hand if possible, especially when you are starting out.

This is because most beginners don't have an idea of what they want...usually you will find your true preferences after a while and will end up disatisfied with what they have. Also, there are some who totally lost interest only after a few months.

Buying 2ndhand avoids the possible financial losses as 2nd hand items can be sold for almost a similar price.
 

K

Kiwi

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#19
Originally posted by Zerstorer
This seems more suitable for you given your requirements.
However, the apparent lack of obvious different in DOF with digicams might frustrate you when u progress.

Also, bear in mind that when shooting film, all you need to learn is the techniques of photography.

When shooting digital, be prepared to learn all about image processing or you might end up disappointed with your images.
Agree...

If you are serriously going into digital, you must not forget that photo-editing is another "field" you have to be prepared to spend time. And it's lots of hard work of trial and error and lots of reading. Printing your images and doing colour correction are another headache.

Much said, I still feel prosumer cameras even with manual controls don't teach you rigorously about the fundamentals of phtoography, in terms of exposure especially. U still have to fall back on your film SLR and DSLR.
 

sequitur

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#20
Originally posted by Kiwi
Agree...

If you are serriously going into digital, you must not forget that photo-editing is another "field" you have to be prepared to spend time. And it's lots of hard work of trial and error and lots of reading. Printing your images and doing colour correction are another headache.

hmm
yeah i know i'll have to learn about all the photoshop and stuff and i'm quite prepared...


Much said, I still feel prosumer cameras even with manual controls don't teach you rigorously about the fundamentals of phtoography, in terms of exposure especially. U still have to fall back on your film SLR and DSLR.
okay.. i understand. i guess i'll have to go and weigh the pros and cons of whether to choose "technical photography" first or "beautiful photography" first.
 

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