Philippines backs rearming of Japan - 9 Dec 2012


ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
3,353
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sing
#1
Philippines backs rearming of Japan

Are they nuts?
Announcing this on 9 Dec 2012 one day after the anniversary of Japanese invasion of Philippines on 8 Dec 1941.
Wonder how Japan managed to "incentivise" some fat cat Philippines politician in 2012 to say this.
Have Filipinos forgotten the atrocities by Japanese on their grand parents/parents 1941 - 1945?
It was not that long ago.

Japan's economy has been in decline for past two decades.
Its exports have been hurt by strong competition from South Korea, Taiwan and PRC.
Its demographics show that it is a fast greying nation.
Its companies, once world leaders, are performing poorly. For example Sharp, Panasonic, Sony,etc...
It has problem securing vital resources such as rare earths.
It has a restless, dis-satisfied young generation that could not enjoy the wealth that Japan had in early 1980s.

The situation is in some ways - similar to Japan of 1941.

What solution did Japan resort to, to solve its economic woes in 1941?
Everyone knows. That is history.

Fast forward to 2012/2013.
What solution will Japan resort to, to solve its economic woes in 2012/2013?

Japan has been going out of its way to pick a fight with PRC.
Diao Yu Tai islands and now the alleged missile radar lock.
They have the gall to demand apology after what they did in various East Asian countries 1941 - 1945.
Abe demands apology from Beijing
But Japan insists that Nanking massacre never happened. They teach this to their children in school text books.

Japan has been picking a fight with South Korea over Dokdo islands in 2012
To this day Japan has refused to apologise to Korean comfort women.

Japan has been picking a fight with Russia over Kuril islands and airspace over Rishiri island.

When Japan was the world's richest nation in the early 1980's with a young and vibrant population, it did not behave in this belligerent way. Now in 2013 Japan's economic back is to the wall and it has become more aggressive and threatening to neighbouring countries.

Let's watch and see if USA is stupid enough to allow Japan to rearm. Maybe USA will forget Pearl Harbour lessons.
 

Last edited:
Jun 7, 2011
939
3
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#2
They said the reason is so that it can balance China's rising naval (or military) power in the region.

I never like the idea of any nation (re-)arming itself, but then again, in this case, I also wonder:

- the underlying problem is the uncertainty of which area belongs to who. I am sure in distant past it was owned by the fish - not human :p - and now suddenly both countries fight over it..

- What other countries will do if China really invade the area of South China Sea which belongs to Philippines (well assuming it really belongs to the Philippines).

- What other options Philippines have (Of course the best would be negotiation.)

As bro Ricohflex said, let's just see.
 

albertri

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2010
6,304
9
38
Singapore
#4
Sad to say Philippines has no other options in this stage specially when China is bulliying most APAC countires in the region and claiming some island hundres and hundreds of kilometers from thier territory.

And the global climate had change now no longer a single country could wage war without a backslash from other countries other than uncle sam itself. Even N Korea and China dont dare wage war see what happen to S. Korea and N. Korea last 2010 when S. Korea ship was so called suck by N. Korea? Anything happen? and even Now China vs Japan no one dares to start anything...

Anyways why so worried about Japan? not worried with China fast growing military? Look what China doing at the south China Sea area? I should be more worried with them than Japan.
 

diver-hloc

Moderator
Staff member
Apr 17, 2007
5,213
13
38
Somewhere North
#5
WWII has ended almost 68 years... its time that we no longer 'blame' the current Japanese Govt of the Sins of their Grandfather...

Yes, I very much prefer that the current Jap Govt to "apologize" properly and NOT whitewash the History during the war years... but this doesn't mean the Japanese shouldn't have the right to arm themselves. Times are difference now... the idea that any Nation could start an invasion of a foreign Nation and keep territory, is hardly accepted nowadays... look at how the Vietnam War both Gulf War ended...

If any Nation should disarmed... it should be the USA. The US have started more War and kept dictators in 3rd World countries in power alot more often then for comfort since WWII. Watch this show...

Oliver Stone's - Untold History Of The United States


My own personal thinking... its damn ridiculous for CHINA to claim almost the WHOLE of South China Sea with everything in it... Does India claim the whole of Indian Ocean ?? Or does the Pacific Islanders in Cook Islands, Marquesas Islands, Samoa, Society, Tokelau, Tonga, Tuamotu, etc, claim the whole of the Pacific Ocean ?? :think:
 

albertri

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2010
6,304
9
38
Singapore
#6
WWII has ended almost 68 years... its time that we no longer 'blame' the current Japanese Govt of the Sins of their Grandfather...

Yes, I very much prefer that the current Jap Govt to "apologize" properly and NOT whitewash the History during the war years... but this doesn't mean the Japanese shouldn't have the right to arm themselves. Times are difference now... the idea that any Nation could start an invasion of a foreign Nation and keep territory, is hardly accepted nowadays... look at how the Vietnam War both Gulf War ended...

If any Nation should disarmed... it should be the USA. The US have started more War and kept dictators in 3rd World countries in power alot more often then for comfort since WWII. Watch this show...

Oliver Stone's - Untold History Of The United States


My own personal thinking... its damn ridiculous for CHINA to claim almost the WHOLE of South China Sea with everything in it... Does India claim the whole of Indian Ocean ?? Or does the Pacific Islanders in Cook Islands, Marquesas Islands, Samoa, Society, Tokelau, Tonga, Tuamotu, etc, claim the whole of the Pacific Ocean ?? :think:
Oh dont forget US best friends like Britain and Israel :) who help in most times directly or indirectly and vice versa US help them also ;-)
 

devilry

New Member
Feb 16, 2006
986
3
0
#7
My own personal thinking... its damn ridiculous for CHINA to claim almost the WHOLE of South China Sea with everything in it... Does India claim the whole of Indian Ocean ?? Or does the Pacific Islanders in Cook Islands, Marquesas Islands, Samoa, Society, Tokelau, Tonga, Tuamotu, etc, claim the whole of the Pacific Ocean ?? :think:
Precisely! Its the same as saying singapore owns all the island in the world, because all countries touch the waters, and the waters all flow through singapore sea at some point in time!

Anyway the way china is behaving in this senkaku islands thingy makes them look uncivilised and disgraceful. Instead of resolving through proper negotiation, they send fighter jets and navy ships & even locked radar!

In any case, i concur with uncle fai that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
 

#8
Well, there's currently a global shift of power to Asia.

Everyone is bracing for the inevitable change not just China and Japan, we are also expecting the class of Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) from the United States Navy (USN) to be positioned here permanently. Not to mention the unveiling of our network-centric blue water Singaporean Navy fleets with this as the flagships operating together with the Formidable class stealth frigates.



:gbounce:
 

albertri

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2010
6,304
9
38
Singapore
#9
Well, there's currently a global shift of power to Asia.

Everyone is bracing for the inevitable change not just China and Japan, we are also expecting the class of Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) from the United States Navy (USN) to be positioned here permanently. Not to mention the unveiling of our network-centric blue water Singaporean Navy fleets with this as the flagships operating together with the Formidable class stealth frigates.



:gbounce:
now I chance my stance it's Singapore we should fear :)
 

#11
Anyway we already have the "secret" huge ass Air Cushion Vehicle (ACV) Eagle 1 Landing Craft Air Cushion (LCAC) for many years now.

I just wonder if whether they will fit into the well dock of the Endurance 160 Landing Platform Dock (LPD)? :think: Not much use for them unless force projection is a consideration.
 

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BBTM

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2004
2,211
6
38
BB West
#14
There are things more than meets the eyes. So, we can't says Japan that bad as there isn't any good country or govt out there nowadays. Furthermore, most of us half leg in liao. If wars come, die also can't do much. Ha ha!
 

bonrya

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2010
2,632
3
38
In a mobile cage
#15
dreaming said:
此仇不报非君子

every words the chinese says; it always has a profound meaning
An eye for an eye makes all but one man completely blind. :dunno:
 

Feb 9, 2013
5
0
0
Central
#16
Are they nuts?
Announcing this on 9 Dec 2012 one day after the anniversary of Japanese invasion of Philippines on 8 Dec 1941.
Wonder how Japan managed to "incentivise" some fat cat Philippines politician in 2012 to say this.
Have Filipinos forgotten the atrocities by Japanese on their grand parents/parents 1941 - 1945?
It was not that long ago.

Japan's economy has been in decline for past two decades.
Its exports have been hurt by strong competition from South Korea, Taiwan and PRC.
Its demographics show that it is a fast greying nation.
Its companies, once world leaders, are performing poorly. For example Sharp, Panasonic, Sony,etc...
It has problem securing vital resources such as rare earths.
It has a restless, dis-satisfied young generation that could not enjoy the wealth that Japan had in early 1980s.

The situation is in some ways - similar to Japan of 1941.

What solution did Japan resort to, to solve its economic woes in 1941?
Everyone knows. That is history.

Fast forward to 2012/2013.
What solution will Japan resort to, to solve its economic woes in 2012/2013?

Japan has been going out of its way to pick a fight with PRC.
Diao Yu Tai islands and now the alleged missile radar lock.
They have the gall to demand apology after what they did in various East Asian countries 1941 - 1945.
But Japan insists that Nanking massacre never happened. They teach this to their children in school text books.

Japan has been picking a fight with South Korea over Dokdo islands in 2012
To this day Japan has refused to apologise to Korean comfort women.

Japan has been picking a fight with Russia over Kuril islands and airspace over Rishiri island.

When Japan was the world's richest nation in the early 1980's with a young and vibrant population, it did not behave in this belligerent way. Now in 2013 Japan's economic back is to the wall and it has become more aggressive and threatening to neighbouring countries.

Let's watch and see if USA is stupid enough to allow Japan to rearm. Maybe USA will forget Pearl Harbour lessons.

Calm down ricohflex. The USA isn't in a position to "allow Japan to rearm", as the Japanese Constitution itself specifically states that the country has to be a pacifist nation, and effectively bans the JSDF from taking part in any armed conflict, other than in self defense.

Now you might say that the new nationalist-backed leaders can just change the constitution, and indeed that is what Mr Abe seems to be trying to do. However, we all know that Japan is a very politically divided country with the PM changing every other month :p, so it is almost impossible to reach the two-thirds majority required in both houses.

Finally, I have to say that I am a member of Japan's "restless, dis-satisfied young generation". The socioeconomic situation in Japan certainly is similar to the early 1940s, but our mindset and perspectives are completely different. We know that most Chinese and Koreans think as rationally as we do, and there is a lot of cultural and social exchange between our countries. For example, quite a few K-Pop band members can speak Japanese, as a large proportion of their crazed, screaming fan base is in Japan.

Furthermore, we all know the bloodshed and terror that war inevitably produces, and we do not want to get embroiled in it. If you ask a random guy in Tokyo or Osaka if he thinks dying for his country is the most noble sacrifice or some BS like that, he will probably give you the are-you-on-recreational-drugs look.

We may be hungry and restless, but we are not stupid enough to bay for Chinese or Korean blood just because of a few petty territorial disputes.
 

Pinoy

New Member
Jan 17, 2002
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www.flickr.com
#17
I believe the Filipino people have moved on. WW2 had long been over.

In light of China's recent aggression -- specifically in the South China Sea -- what can the Philippines do? China doesn't want itself to be subjected to international law (although they went to UN over the Diayou/Senkaku Island :bsmilie:). The Chinese appear to go along the lines of, "What's ours is ours. What's yours, well, let's negotiate" which is of course, unacceptable to other claimant countries. China has been throwing its weight around uncontested thus a need for somebody closer to it to act as counter balance. That somebody happens to be Japan.

AFAIK, the movement to amend Japan's post war constitution has long been in the "works". So "rearming" isn't entirely new.

Bottomline, I think most of the Filipino people see China more as a threat, rather than a rearmed Japan.
 

Pinoy

New Member
Jan 17, 2002
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#18
the action shown by the Philippines government is embarrassing. they didn't make effort to beef up the shore, arm themselves against external threat through out the years. now problem surfaces then they go around asking for help.. and now this backing of rearming of Japan. awkward. Japan signed the Not to arm treaty; if they break this promise then it show that Japan has something fishy up their sleeves.

NOTE: no offend to the ppl of Philippines and they not the issue here.
True. Corruption has taken its toll. Also, the Philippines I think was so focused on internal conflicts (against NPA, separatist groups like MNLF/MILF, terrorist groups like Abu Sayyaf) that building a "credible defense" against external threats was put in the back burner.

Thankfully, quite a lot of things appear to be happening under the current administration. The Philippine Air Force is reportedly getting 12 FA-50 from South Korea. The Philippine Navy is expecting another Hamilton Class Cutter -- the BRP Ramon Alcaraz this year, and last time I read, they're planning to get 2 soon-to-be-decommissioned frigates from Italy (Maestrales, IIRC). There are some other announced planned acquisitions that I just hope all of them come to fruition. Inspite of all these recently announced acquisitions, it will still be far from being a "credible defense" but it seems to be a good start.
 

An drew

Senior Member
May 27, 2005
3,920
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#19
Thankfully, quite a lot of things appear to be happening under the current administration. The Philippine Air Force is reportedly getting 12 FA-50 from South Korea. The Philippine Navy is expecting another Hamilton Class Cutter -- the BRP Ramon Alcaraz this year, and last time I read, they're planning to get 2 soon-to-be-decommissioned frigates from Italy (Maestrales, IIRC). There are some other announced planned acquisitions that I just hope all of them come to fruition. Inspite of all these recently announced acquisitions, it will still be far from being a "credible defense" but it seems to be a good start.
Hope Phillipines will have a stronger defence.

i don't think anyone here approves of any territorial aggression by China. But a rearmed Japan is like a tiger out of its cage. It is irreversible.
 

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