Panasonic FZ7 vs Canon S3IS & Panasonic FX1 vs Leica Lux2

[happitreesmiles]

hello, i'm looking at Panasonic FZ7 vs Canon S3IS, and Panasonic FX1 vs Leica Lux2… i hv some questions maybe u can help me with? (I'm newbie)

my purpose is firstly to take pics when i go on hol later this yr, and hopefully after that, progress from there to learn more abt the manual controls etc and progress fr pt n shoot kind of use... anyone can help me understand wh camera's a gd fit for the uses i mentioned?

Questions:
1) What are the advantages of FZ7 over Canon S3IS? It seems that FZ7's lighter (can feel the wt diff when carrying them) and can save in TIFF (vs S3IS only saves in JPEG). But FZ does not have flip screen and uses the lithium-ion batt.s (wh is a bit more restrictive or gets used up faster than AA batt.s), rt? does the fact that the controls in S3IS are on buttons vs no need to keep scrolling menu (in FZ7) mk a big diff to users?

are there other differences? plse share w me... er... i heard that canon need to buy adapter if you want to add-on things but panasonic no need to buy cos it comes w the camera or something? so cuts down cost if u want add stuff in the long-run? is that true? are panasonic's add-ons cheaper? more expensive?

2) is it true that wide angle lens (28mm) will help take better hol pics? is it true that pple usually use more of that than zoom for hol pics? do u usually get the wide angle attachment when u go on hol (assuming u use FZ7 or S3IS)? w the additional lens, will it end up too bulky and it'll be better to just get camera w wide angle (and lower zoom)? (i’m concerned abt wt cos think may get tired fr lugging heavy camera ard…)

3) if wide angle is recommended for hol pics, can I get opinions on Panasonic LX1 vs Leica Lux2? they seem similar to me what's the difference (apart from the brand)? both have manual controls? so this means that can learn how to use these as well if get either of these cameras?

4) What's the diff when comparing LX1/Lux2 to to FZ7/S3IS? FZ7 and S3IS have options to "add-on" other things like zoom/macro but LX1/Lux2 don't hv these options?

5) Curious… how come out of the 4 cameras I’m looking at, only canon doesn’t save pic.s in uncompressed format? Is there some special reason for this?

a bit like asking abt a lot of diff cameras... but i'm trying to understand and compare... hee.. hee... all advise welcomed!!! thks! kam sia! kam sia!

 

[ExplorerZ]

hello, i'm looking at Panasonic FZ7 vs Canon S3IS, and Panasonic FX1 vs Leica Lux2… i hv some questions maybe u can help me with? (I'm newbie)

my purpose is firstly to take pics when i go on hol later this yr, and hopefully after that, progress from there to learn more abt the manual controls etc and progress fr pt n shoot kind of use... anyone can help me understand wh camera's a gd fit for the uses i mentioned?

Questions:
1) What are the advantages of FZ7 over Canon S3IS? It seems that FZ7's lighter (can feel the wt diff when carrying them) and can save in TIFF (vs S3IS only saves in JPEG). But FZ does not have flip screen and uses the lithium-ion batt.s (wh is a bit more restrictive or gets used up faster than AA batt.s), rt? does the fact that the controls in S3IS are on buttons vs no need to keep scrolling menu (in FZ7) mk a big diff to users?

are there other differences? plse share w me... er... i heard that canon need to buy adapter if you want to add-on things but panasonic no need to buy cos it comes w the camera or something? so cuts down cost if u want add stuff in the long-run? is that true? are panasonic's add-ons cheaper? more expensive?

2) is it true that wide angle lens (28mm) will help take better hol pics? is it true that pple usually use more of that than zoom for hol pics? do u usually get the wide angle attachment when u go on hol (assuming u use FZ7 or S3IS)? w the additional lens, will it end up too bulky and it'll be better to just get camera w wide angle (and lower zoom)? (i’m concerned abt wt cos think may get tired fr lugging heavy camera ard…)

3) if wide angle is recommended for hol pics, can I get opinions on Panasonic LX1 vs Leica Lux2? they seem similar to me what's the difference (apart from the brand)? both have manual controls? so this means that can learn how to use these as well if get either of these cameras?

4) What's the diff when comparing LX1/Lux2 to to FZ7/S3IS? FZ7 and S3IS have options to "add-on" other things like zoom/macro but LX1/Lux2 don't hv these options?

5) Curious… how come out of the 4 cameras I’m looking at, only canon doesn’t save pic.s in uncompressed format? Is there some special reason for this?

a bit like asking abt a lot of diff cameras... but i'm trying to understand and compare... hee.. hee... all advise welcomed!!! thks! kam sia! kam sia!

i don think you wanna save in tiff when using fz7 unless you got >2GB of storage... 1 TIFF file is about 17MB (14MB for 5MP, but fz7 is 6MP). yup you need to buy a seperate adapter for canon S3 which cost about $50. most of the other stuffs you said are correct.

LX1 and Lux2 are basically the same camera in different shell. if you wanna progress from PnS i think fz7 or S3 will let you have a slightly longer learning curve since you can try out using filter.

 

[jdredd]

hello, i'm looking at Panasonic FZ7 vs Canon S3IS, and Panasonic FX1 vs Leica Lux2… i hv some questions maybe u can help me with? (I'm newbie)

my purpose is firstly to take pics when i go on hol later this yr, and hopefully after that, progress from there to learn more abt the manual controls etc and progress fr pt n shoot kind of use... anyone can help me understand wh camera's a gd fit for the uses i mentioned?

Questions:
1) What are the advantages of FZ7 over Canon S3IS? It seems that FZ7's lighter (can feel the wt diff when carrying them) and can save in TIFF (vs S3IS only saves in JPEG). But FZ does not have flip screen and uses the lithium-ion batt.s (wh is a bit more restrictive or gets used up faster than AA batt.s), rt? does the fact that the controls in S3IS are on buttons vs no need to keep scrolling menu (in FZ7) mk a big diff to users?

are there other differences? plse share w me... er... i heard that canon need to buy adapter if you want to add-on things but panasonic no need to buy cos it comes w the camera or something? so cuts down cost if u want add stuff in the long-run? is that true? are panasonic's add-ons cheaper? more expensive?

2) is it true that wide angle lens (28mm) will help take better hol pics? is it true that pple usually use more of that than zoom for hol pics? do u usually get the wide angle attachment when u go on hol (assuming u use FZ7 or S3IS)? w the additional lens, will it end up too bulky and it'll be better to just get camera w wide angle (and lower zoom)? (i’m concerned abt wt cos think may get tired fr lugging heavy camera ard…)

3) if wide angle is recommended for hol pics, can I get opinions on Panasonic LX1 vs Leica Lux2? they seem similar to me what's the difference (apart from the brand)? both have manual controls? so this means that can learn how to use these as well if get either of these cameras?

4) What's the diff when comparing LX1/Lux2 to to FZ7/S3IS? FZ7 and S3IS have options to "add-on" other things like zoom/macro but LX1/Lux2 don't hv these options?

5) Curious… how come out of the 4 cameras I’m looking at, only canon doesn’t save pic.s in uncompressed format? Is there some special reason for this?

a bit like asking abt a lot of diff cameras... but i'm trying to understand and compare... hee.. hee... all advise welcomed!!! thks! kam sia! kam sia!

i suggest you read some detailed reviews of all the cameras first. check out www.dpreview.com.

i notice you have not made picture quality an issue. but to me, that would be among the top 3 deciding factors when deciding on a camera. also, if im not mistaken, the panasonics dont score so well for noise control at higher ISO settings.

for me, having easy access to controls is vital. especially for key settings that you want to change on the fly. so if i had ot scroll though a menu, that would be a negative for me. but it really depends on the user.

as for wide angle lenses or adaptors, there is no hard and fast rule. wide angle can give you better perspective, but sometimes they can be also tricky to use. and sometimes, people fall into the trap of thinking oh, wide angle = good, so every single landscape shot they take is taken at wide angle. but it can be quite boring, and lack intimacy and detail.

it also depends what kind of holiday shots yo utake. but i wouldnt worry so much about that. get used to the camera and experiment, before spending money on add ons.

as for format, the advantage of saving in TIFF i that it is a near lossless format. whereas JPEG isnt. but you can convert JPEG to tiff. the disadvantage is that your file sizes become much larger.

and to be honest, if the majority of what you print is 4R or 5R, you could be hard pressed to tell the difference.

 

[happitreesmiles]

i suggest you read some detailed reviews of all the cameras first. check out www.dpreview.com.

i notice you have not made picture quality an issue. but to me, that would be among the top 3 deciding factors when deciding on a camera. also, if im not mistaken, the panasonics dont score so well for noise control at higher ISO settings.

for me, having easy access to controls is vital. especially for key settings that you want to change on the fly. so if i had ot scroll though a menu, that would be a negative for me. but it really depends on the user.

as for wide angle lenses or adaptors, there is no hard and fast rule. wide angle can give you better perspective, but sometimes they can be also tricky to use. and sometimes, people fall into the trap of thinking oh, wide angle = good, so every single landscape shot they take is taken at wide angle. but it can be quite boring, and lack intimacy and detail.

it also depends what kind of holiday shots yo utake. but i wouldnt worry so much about that. get used to the camera and experiment, before spending money on add ons.

as for format, the advantage of saving in TIFF i that it is a near lossless format. whereas JPEG isnt. but you can convert JPEG to tiff. the disadvantage is that your file sizes become much larger.

and to be honest, if the majority of what you print is 4R or 5R, you could be hard pressed to tell the difference.

thks for ur responses... can i ask something? u mean can convert file fr jpeg to tiff? i dun really get it... 1) i tot jpeg means u lose more data at the pt of saving pic, so how come after that can convert to TIFF (near lossless format)? S3IS's review says can only save in jpeg. do u mean that we can convert after the pic's been taken n saved? 2) pple choose to convert so that they can work on the post processing thing or something?

 

[jdredd]

yes you can convert a jpeg file to tiff. there are quite a few converters in the market..

my understanding, (and i stand to be corrected) is with jpeg, is everytime you open it,edit it and save it as the same file, the image quality is reduced.

so thats why its advantageous to convert it to tiff, even though the original format was jpeg.

 

[sentientpuppets]

I am new to photography as well and also facing the same issues (which camera etc =p). Been reading a few reviews myself so I mayb just share what I learnt.

I was actually considering a DSLR but on hindsight (and shallow pockets ) ...most probably would get a bridge camera :bsmilie:

As mentioned the S3 has a rotating screen and better noise control at higher levels cf to fz7. However, it seems that fz7 is better at focusing on moving subjects (i.e. the subjects remain in focus even while they are moving)--someone who owns either please correct me if I am wrong

For me I would most probably get the S3 or mayb the S2 if the price is different enough. personally I think the rotating LCD is good for those awkward angles; also noise is better controlled?

just my 2p worth =)

 

[photobum]

I suggest all you newbies to bite the bullet and purchase a DSLR. Your learning curves are longer and you will progress much faster. Plus, you can shoot in RAW.

I recall as a newbie in photography 29 years ago, my learning camera is a TLR Rollei. Fully manual, very bulky and uses 120 format film, but I learnt fast. I still keep that camera today. We have formed an unseparable bond.

 

[Artosoft]

I suggest all you newbies to bite the bullet and purchase a DSLR. Your learning curves are longer and you will progress much faster. Plus, you can shoot in RAW.

I recall as a newbie in photography 29 years ago, my learning camera is a TLR Rollei. Fully manual, very bulky and uses 120 format film, but I learnt fast. I still keep that camera today. We have formed an unseparable bond.

Wah, 29 years ago I am still a subject of my Dad's Yashica Electro... :sweat: .

Regards,
Arto.

 

[zcwnfx]

I suggest all you newbies to bite the bullet and purchase a DSLR. Your learning curves are longer and you will progress much faster. Plus, you can shoot in RAW.

I recall as a newbie in photography 29 years ago, my learning camera is a TLR Rollei. Fully manual, very bulky and uses 120 format film, but I learnt fast. I still keep that camera today. We have formed an unseparable bond.

aye aye! i agree with the buy DSLR!

actually i also newbie, jus bought my D70s this march. learnt alot since. I had a Z3 prosumer b4 that. was frustrated using it.... now i have my trusty D70s, i dont feel like using a prosumer anymore. but i am ok with a compact. cos as its name, its compact.

the learning curve isnt that steep, just need to go and get someone to teach you, which is easy

 

[photobum]

Wah, 29 years ago I am still a subject of my Dad's Yashica Electro...

Actually I am not as old as you think. I started photography at the age of 6. You can do the math yourself to find out how old I am.

My dad was my first teacher. Ever since, I have had teachers with names like Richard (Dick) Zakia, John Sexton, Art Wolfe, Jerry Uelsmann, Joyce Tenneson and Lois Greenfield, etc.

 

[photobum]

aye aye! i agree with the buy DSLR!....

Yeap.... Consider that currently you can purchase an used Nikon D70 for less than $1000, an used Nikon 18-70mm DX lens for about $350, and an used Nikon SB-600 for about $300.

It is as good as buying a brand-new prosumer digicam.

 

[sentientpuppets]

sorry if it seems like i'm hijacking the thread :embrass:

i was actually considering between the oly e-500/nikon Ds and the prosumers ...but as mentioned a few posts above, i am sort of more partial towards the prosumers (like say canon S3) coz of the adjustable LCD for one?

i'm not sure how important that is in practice (since i'm only using a simple pns now) but sometimes when i take macros it gets quite weird squating around and all =p also the other thing i thought about was IS (asked in another thread) and it appears that IS seems to b a good thing to have (though it's probably more ex in dslr?)

of coz a dslr would produce better pictures (less noise and all) compared to a small-sensor prosumer thereby justifying the cost....but to get some of the features mentioned, i think the dslr would be quite ex (the sony alpha comes to mind, the e-330 from oly as well...think some newer just released dslrs from pentax also i think)

decisions decisions =p mayb i shld just stick w my current pns (HP R707) :bsmilie:

 

[happitreesmiles]

go ahead n hijack... interesting to read more discussion pts n replies... but hor, i do get more confused along the way as i find out more things to check out! haha!

 

[photobum]

go ahead n hijack... interesting to read more discussion pts n replies... but hor, i do get more confused along the way as i find out more things to check out! haha!

Learning photography is a life-long process. You do get confused and frustrated along the way. BUT never give up!

Even with 29 years of photography under my belt, I know about 30% of it only. BTW, I have a MFA (Master of Fine Arts) degree in photography from the US, and I am still learning!

 

[zcwnfx]

wah, senior! must duo duo zi jiao!

hmmm.... seriously guys.... IMHO, prosumers might give similar functions, but u will grow out of it very fast if u are really serious into photography.

DSLR not only gives u the option of interchangable lens, which i think is the most useful and also yet the most expensive factor, it is also better in terms of the viewfinder, which i find a very important factor!

i think i said it too many time... the EVF is super irritating! haa haa.... i dont really care for live preview, now that i am used to my D70s. i always feel that using the viewfinder gives me better grip, as i can hold the camera closer to the body.

i think all the DSLR brands are good, though sony is an unknow, as it isnt really out yet, but for me, i would still choose btw canon and nikon. simply becos of the big 2nd market of these 2 brands. i cant afford 1st hand stuff, hee poor student, so i get all my stuff 2nd hand. i think i would face a bigger prob if i am using other brand DSLR. in this way, its not ex at all.

so far i spent about 2K. i got myself 2nd hand : a D70s, 18-70mm kit, 70-300mm G tele, 28-200mm power zoom, a couple of filters, a sb600, some cleaning stuff, a digicab 30L and a bag.... ok lah, some i bought from frens that gave me some discounts. but if u are patient and wait for the good deal, i think all my stuff at most goes up to 2.3K max. oh yeah, i got a 55mm micro f2.8 i share with my fren too.

yes its ex lah... but actually the power zoom, the filters, the flash, the micro can come later.....

i tink a prosumer will cost about 800? maybe? hmmm, for that, i can get a DSLR body liao...

but still, its ur choice.... it took me quite some time b4 i decided to get a DSLR.

 

[photobum]

wah, senior! must duo duo zi jiao!......I though sony is an unknown....

No problem, my friend. I am a photography instructor also. Look out for my upcoming workshops.

Sony is NOT unknown in the world of DSLR, consider that it bought over Konica/Minolta.

Also, the CCD sensor in your D70s is manufactured by Sony. Sony makes CCD sensors for many DSLR brands.

 

[jdredd]

there are people who just dont want to go down the DSLR route and i thnk thats fine. prosumers do offer a lot for the money... just to get a decent equivaletn zoom lens to the canon S3IS will cost a few times more than the canon S3is.

ive tried the F30. fantastic zoom. and good quality images. but compared to a dslr, its a turtle.
and there is nothign to beat looking through dslr viewfinder, as opposed to an electronic one.


so if you are not sure, get hol dof a dslr and play with it for a bit. then make up your mind.

 

[zcwnfx]

No problem, my friend. I am a photography instructor also. Look out for my upcoming workshops.

Sony is NOT unknown in the world of DSLR, consider that it bought over Konica/Minolta.

Also, the CCD sensor in your D70s is manufactured by Sony. Sony makes CCD sensors for many DSLR brands.

xie xie ni!

yup, sony makes the sensor. hope that with KM's knowledge in DSLR, the sony alpha will have good erognomics. I feel the handling of a DSLR also contributes to how good a camera is too

OT-ing, where to look out for your workshops?

 

[zcwnfx]

there are people who just dont want to go down the DSLR route and i thnk thats fine. prosumers do offer a lot for the money... just to get a decent equivaletn zoom lens to the canon S3IS will cost a few times more than the canon S3is.

ive tried the F30. fantastic zoom. and good quality images. but compared to a dslr, its a turtle.
and there is nothign to beat looking through dslr viewfinder, as opposed to an electronic one.


so if you are not sure, get hol dof a dslr and play with it for a bit. then make up your mind.

i think the viewfinder was the deciding factor for me. the EVF to me is laggy and unclear, i cant really see very well.

for me, i decided that i going into photography seriously, so i would be on my DSLR for a long time. if i have gotten myself a prosumer, i would have to sell it and then buy a DSLR later. i feel that prosumer are not easy to get rid of, and might have to lose a few hundred due to depreciation. why not jus take the crunch and jus buy a DSLR straight.

just my 2 cents worth

 

[david_goh]

Hi happitreesmiles

Just to share my thoughts with you since I own a FZ5 before, and a S3IS now. (Reply in Blue)

my purpose is firstly to take pics when i go on hol later this yr, and hopefully after that, progress from there to learn more abt the manual controls etc and progress fr pt n shoot kind of use... anyone can help me understand wh camera's a gd fit for the uses i mentioned?

As with the manual controls, they are really identical. Just that FZs are cheaper, lighter, smaller etc. But if one is willing to get something like FZ7 for a camera, I don't see why he/see would find it bothersome to settle for a slightly bigger S3IS. Not saying that S3IS is better; just pointing out that the size shouldn't be an issue if you are already willing to get a FZ.

Questions:
1) What are the advantages of FZ7 over Canon S3IS? It seems that FZ7's lighter (can feel the wt diff when carrying them) and can save in TIFF (vs S3IS only saves in JPEG). But FZ does not have flip screen and uses the lithium-ion batt.s (wh is a bit more restrictive or gets used up faster than AA batt.s), rt? does the fact that the controls in S3IS are on buttons vs no need to keep scrolling menu (in FZ7) mk a big diff to users?

FZ7 is surely sharper, lighter, cheaper etc. But yes, the noise on >=200ISO will surprise you. It shocked me the first time I looked at the night shots on my previous FZ5. You may not want to worry abt TIFF issue unless you are editing or printing big pictures. Personally I don't have a need for that. Some ppl prefer Lithium while others swear by AAs. I'm alright with both. If you don't want to bring a charger during holidays, you can easily buy Energizer's Lithium AAs. I have shot over 500 pics and still counting...(testing now in my S3IS).

S3IS definitely has more buttons than FZ. But I like it better because they are short-cuts to the functions that you access in the scrolling menu. You can shoot video in any mode (no need to turn the dial), shoot macro at any mode by the press of a button. And changing color type (ie B&W, sepia, vivid) or white balance, or flash power are faster on the S3IS' "Func" button. Personally, I also like the built-in 'color accent' and 'color swap' functions in S3.

are there other differences? plse share w me... er... i heard that canon need to buy adapter if you want to add-on things but panasonic no need to buy cos it comes w the camera or something? so cuts down cost if u want add stuff in the long-run? is that true? are panasonic's add-ons cheaper? more expensive?

The adaptor and lens hood comes free with FZ which is good. But you can always save up and buy these things slowly. Cost-of-ownership for a S3IS is surely higher.

2) is it true that wide angle lens (28mm) will help take better hol pics? is it true that pple usually use more of that than zoom for hol pics? do u usually get the wide angle attachment when u go on hol (assuming u use FZ7 or S3IS)? w the additional lens, will it end up too bulky and it'll be better to just get camera w wide angle (and lower zoom)? (i’m concerned abt wt cos think may get tired fr lugging heavy camera ard…)

I guess it is not so much of whether wide-angle converter is use more during holiday. But rather, it goes back to the question of 'what photos are you shooting?' I mean, you wouldn't use a wide-angle if you are trying to get a close 12x-shot on a particular subject, would you? The S3IS is heavier I agree, but if you can carry a FZ7 around...carrying a S3IS will not make you anymore worn out. If weight is a concern, you may opt for a Lumix TZ1 instead.

5) Curious… how come out of the 4 cameras I’m looking at, only canon doesn’t save pic.s in uncompressed format? Is there some special reason for this?

I think it's really a 'individual need' thingy. I only took TIFF photos for test purpose during these 5 years of shooting shooting with digital cams.

a bit like asking abt a lot of diff cameras... but i'm trying to understand and compare... hee.. hee... all advise welcomed!!! thks! kam sia! kam sia![/QUOTE]

Hope you'll buy the one that you really like. And good luck to your future shots!