Olympus to sell off camera division


qystan

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Jul 8, 2010
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Thanks. It's really nice to finally hear from some one who appreciates M43 after all the bashing of Olympus & M43 above.
Actually, I initially bought the EM5.3 because I found my Sony RX10 IV (24mm - 600mm) too heavy and cumbersome.
I realized that whenever I am not outdoor in the wild, I seldom use the range 200-600mm).
Hence, I got the EM5.3 with 12-100 as my walk around setup and I even bought the pancake kit lens
to use the EM5 like a compact camera :)

It was only after when I join Olympus Club and join them for the birding classes that I tried out
the 300mm with 2x Tele (equivalent to 1200mm on 35mm) that I got interested in birding.
I never thought it is possible to shoot handheld with 1200mm and walk around easy with such a lens.

In fact, the kit was so light that I was actually carrying a EM1x with 300mm F4 (600mm) and a EM5.3 with
40-150 (80-300). Sadly the EM1x, 300mm and 40-150mm are all on loan and have to be returned after
the birding workshop but it was fun!
For the moment, APSC on 600mm gives 900mm and 1200mm with a 1.4TC is quite hard to beat for reach, I only wish they will make an apsc lens instead of making me lug a FF lens.
When the m43 400mm giving 800mm out of the box is out, it'll give a real run for the money in the sports and wildlife users and that will be decision day for me.
 

tommyk

Senior Member
Jun 10, 2013
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Thanks. It's really nice to finally hear from some one who appreciates M43 after all the bashing of Olympus & M43 above.
Actually, I initially bought the EM5.3 because I found my Sony RX10 IV (24mm - 600mm) too heavy and cumbersome.
I realized that whenever I am not outdoor in the wild, I seldom use the range 200-600mm).
Hence, I got the EM5.3 with 12-100 as my walk around setup and I even bought the pancake kit lens
to use the EM5 like a compact camera :)

It was only after when I join Olympus Club and join them for the birding classes that I tried out
the 300mm with 2x Tele (equivalent to 1200mm on 35mm) that I got interested in birding.
I never thought it is possible to shoot handheld with 1200mm and walk around easy with such a lens.

In fact, the kit was so light that I was actually carrying a EM1x with 300mm F4 (600mm) and a EM5.3 with
40-150 (80-300). Sadly the EM1x, 300mm and 40-150mm are all on loan and have to be returned after
the birding workshop but it was fun!
Olympus does not need any bashing from any of us, I can attest to this thread as I started it.
Just that some of us feel that there is not much of a future for Olympus camera, despite the good m4/3 products.
Olympus of the earlier m4/3 years is more exciting with its products, and now it is left far behind by well positioned competitors that I don't need to mention.

I am sorry if you read our frank comments and market assessment as bashing, it really is not.

bashing meaning :) https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bashing
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
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Olympus does not need any bashing from any of us, I can attest to this thread as I started it.
Just that some of us feel that there is not much of a future for Olympus camera, despite the good m4/3 products.
Olympus of the earlier m4/3 years is more exciting with its products, and now it is left far behind by well positioned competitors that I don't need to mention.

I am sorry if you read our frank comments and market assessment as bashing, it really is not.

bashing meaning :) https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bashing
It's good to hear that there was no "bashing" intention on Olympus.
Maybe I am just too sensitive for a brand I happen to fall in love with 6 months ago :)

Anyway, I started with 35mm film SLRs, then Full Frame DSLRs (EOS 1D, EOS 5D etc) followed by APS
(EOS 60,70,80). When we started getting some APS cameras for the photographers in my company,
I remembered everyone rushing for the APS cameras as it is much lighter to carry around especially
for whole day events. All of us are aware that the APS cameras has a slight compromise in image
quality but it is really acceptable.

When I find APS cameras are also quite cumbersome, I did tried out compact (SOny RX100) and bridge
Sony RX10 Mk4) both of which I do not like. After that I tried the M43 Panasonic G9 which I had some
minor issues and finally settle down on the Olympus 5 Mk 3, which is almost the perfect camera to me.

Hence, I believe that Olympus is a perfect fit for certain users (in terms of weight, size and price of
the whole system) and has a place in the market. We knew that Sony and other Full Frame Cameras may
have better resolution, image quality and dynamic range, and these are the most impt factors for some
photographers but for us, M43 image quality more than good enough for our purpose and we really prefer
this format. Honestly, I have seen many photos shared within Olympus Club and if I can reach that level,
I will die contented (it's really the photographer skills, equipment only contribute 5-10% lah)

I do not even dispute that Olympus or M43 will be gone one day, as strongly believed by many whom
I have wrongly accused of "bashing" Olympus. All I am going to do is to enjoy my favorite preferred
format and camera these couple of years :)
 

ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
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Sony Mavica started 1981.
Full frame Canon EOS 5D mirrored DLSR 12.8MP in 2005.
Full frame mirrorless ILC Sony A7R 4 in 2019 has 61MP.

Fuji GFX 100 in 2019 is 102 MP so-called medium format.
The sensor size is "only" 43.8mm x 32.9 mm, about 1.7 times of a full frame 35mm sensor.

It is not true 60mm x 45mm. In other words there is room for improvement.
Digital cameras have just started - compared to the long history of film cameras.
Particularly in computing and digital technology, improvements come in leaps and bounds.
In very short product cycles.
(in photography less than Moore's law but startling nevertheless).

There will be true 60mm x 45mm medium format digital and beyond. Eventually.

As technology changes, "once favourite" brand names come and go. This is inevitable.

Heard of Hayes? At one time it was industry leader in computer modems. Now it is gone.
Same story for Kodak in film photography.
Same story for Nokia in mobile phones.
Same story for Netscape browser.

MFT may soon be a victim of progress.
It is not about "Olympus" brand particularly.
Olympus just happen to make MFT. Olympus can choose a different format if it wants to.
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
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Olympus do have other formats, their Tough series, which is pretty good.
My brother and hiking kaki has taken several good shots with them!

I am sure right now Olympus is watching out which other format to venture into.
1) If Olympus make medium format, would you buy Fuji or Olympus Medium format?
2) If Olympus make Full Frame, would you buy Sony, Nikon, Canon or Olympus?
3) If Olympus make APS, would you buy Fuji or Olympus.

Unfortunately, even for a M43 / Olympus lover, I wouldn't choose Olympus for all of the above
for obvious reasons. I believe Olympus must have done its own user survey.

It may be better, although riskier, for Olympus to think of something new
instead of trying to squeeze itself into some established market with loyal users.


Sony Mavica started 1981.
Full frame Canon EOS 5D mirrored DLSR 12.8MP in 2005.
Full frame mirrorless ILC Sony A7R 4 in 2019 has 61MP.

Fuji GFX 100 in 2019 is 102 MP so-called medium format.
The sensor size is "only" 43.8mm x 32.9 mm, about 1.7 times of a full frame 35mm sensor.

It is not true 60mm x 45mm. In other words there is room for improvement.
Digital cameras have just started - compared to the long history of film cameras.
Particularly in computing and digital technology, improvements come in leaps and bounds.
In very short product cycles.
(in photography less than Moore's law but startling nevertheless).

There will be true 60mm x 45mm medium format digital and beyond. Eventually.

As technology changes, "once favourite" brand names come and go. This is inevitable.

Heard of Hayes? At one time it was industry leader in computer modems. Now it is gone.
Same story for Kodak in film photography.
Same story for Nokia in mobile phones.
Same story for Netscape browser.

MFT may soon be a victim of progress.
It is not about "Olympus" brand particularly.
Olympus just happen to make MFT. Olympus can choose a different format if it wants to.
 

tommyk

Senior Member
Jun 10, 2013
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The "something new" is to find a BIG FISH and sell the company off so that the hot potato is in the hands of others.
 

ricohflex

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2005
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Olympus needs to adopt a brave new world fearless mindset.

Before 2013 Canon and Nikon were happily making mirrored DSLR and milking their customers with minor improvements every few years in new models.
Why?
Because they CAN (milk you). There was little or no competition.

Canon and Nikon purposely refused to make full frame mirrorless ILC for many years.
They refused to build IBIS in their mirrored DSLR camera bodies.
They did not want to cannibalise their mirrored DSLRs and the sales of their Image Stabilised (in Nikon known as VR Vibration Reduction) lenses.
They jointly controlled the market.

There was incentive to purposely remain obsolete and hold back improvements, advances and breakthroughs from the consumers.
They dole it out from their R&D labs, in small increments every few years as "new models" to reap profits.
This was largely due to the lack of a serious competitor that could break the strangle hold of Canon & Nikon.

This {Refuse To Improve} attitude was asking for trouble.

Sony saw the wide open gap and charged into it in 2013.
Sony had the financial muscle and the engineering know-how.

For 6 years from 2013, Sony captured so much market share that Canon & Nikon shivered with dismay.
Existential Fear overcame stodgy dull minded top management mental paralysis at Canon & Nikon.
Finally the brain dead top management at Canon & Nikon decided to make full frame mirrorless ILC.

If Olympus is so afraid of competitors in various formats besides MFT, then it can close/sell Camera Imaging Division.
It is an admission they are not good enough.
The late-Maitani would be so disappointed with Olympus fear of competition.
 

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Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
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Olympus needs to adopt a brave new world fearless mindset.

If Olympus is so afraid of competitors in various formats besides MFT, then it can close/sell Camera Imaging Division.
It is an admission they are not good enough.
The late-Maitani would be so disappointed with Olympus fear of competition.
I agree that Olympus needs to adopt a brave mindset.

And I wouldn't use the word "afraid" to describe Olympus.
I think it is considering its options carefully as it cannot afford to make
lots of mistakes like Sony (eg. Smartphones, Movies etc) and write off
hundreds of millions.
 

tommyk

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Jun 10, 2013
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This is an article written without much scientific or financial basis eg :

Quote -

"Recent releases of cameras, like the Olympus E-M5 III and the E-M1 III, show that the platform is very much alive, and the fact that Olympus and Panasonic are continuing to manufacture high-quality lenses for the platform speaks volume itself. "

Yes this is a sign of some continuity.
No, it could be that the engineers and marketers they have not fired yet needs to come out with something.
Coming out with new products will not determine the existential issue of the company, if it is so companies can just come out with new products to ensure its survival?

Its more on sales figures and profitability and returns to investors, all the metrics that look bad now for Olympus.
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
133
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This is an article written without much scientific or financial basis eg :

Quote -

"Recent releases of cameras, like the Olympus E-M5 III and the E-M1 III, show that the platform is very much alive, and the fact that Olympus and Panasonic are continuing to manufacture high-quality lenses for the platform speaks volume itself. "

Yes this is a sign of some continuity.
No, it could be that the engineers and marketers they have not fired yet needs to come out with something.
Coming out with new products will not determine the existential issue of the company, if it is so companies can just come out with new products to ensure its survival?

Its more on sales figures and profitability and returns to investors, all the metrics that look bad now for Olympus.
I used to work for a company. Before we can get funds allocated to create a new product to market, we need to come up
with some sales projection which are backed up by customer feedback and survey. I am quite sure Olympus,
and even Laowa and Venus have done the same before they sink in money to make new camera models
and lenses.

That is why companies that just come out with new products will NOT ensure its survival,
unless backed up by market survey that the few products are what their customers want.

I have questioned a Olympus staff of the rationale of coming out the E-M1x
and was told that this is what their customers want. I think Olympus knows
it will not sell many units but probably enough to justify the E-M1x existence.
 

iguoh

Member
Oct 23, 2005
276
3
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I used to work for a company. Before we can get funds allocated to create a new product to market, we need to come up
with some sales projection which are backed up by customer feedback and survey. I am quite sure Olympus,
and even Laowa and Venus have done the same before they sink in money to make new camera models
and lenses.

That is why companies that just come out with new products will NOT ensure its survival,
unless backed up by market survey that the few products are what their customers want.

I have questioned a Olympus staff of the rationale of coming out the E-M1x
and was told that this is what their customers want. I think Olympus knows
it will not sell many units but probably enough to justify the E-M1x existence.
My first Olympus MFT camera was the E-PL1. I tried a few Panasonic MFT cameras but never liked any of them. The camera which I held onto for the longest time was the E-M5. I really wanted to upgrade several times but never did because the subsequent enhancements were so minimal and prices were high for what I would have gotten. The one which really tempted me recently was the E-M5.3. The pre-order was a good deal but I took too long to decide and they were all sold out before the due date. I then decided to sell away my E-M5 with the intent of selling all my MFT lenses and move on to a different system, probably Fuji. I did consider Sony but I did not like the OOC JPEG images and the lenses were huge. However, I decided to stay with MFT and got myself a used E-M1.2, and just got a used 12-100 Pro lens as well. I guess buying used does not help Olympus in anyway. I really hope that MFT survives and Olympus continues with it. However, I am worried for them to be honest. These very incremental updates once in 2-3 years and expecting prices which are above more capable FF cameras will prevent existing fans like me from upgrading, forget about attracting converts from other systems.
 

ricohflex

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Feb 24, 2005
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That is why I said Olympus needs brave new world mental outlook.

Ground breakers and trend setters don't do surveys before they make products.
They have a passion for what they do/make.

They make something so revolutionary that they CREATE a completely new Genre of Product.

Never before imagined. Or if imagined, then people thought it was impossible.
The product is so new that if the designer tried to do a "survey" the public would not know how to respond.

In fact a "survey" may be a mistake because it would tip off the competitors.
Or the "survey" result may be so discouraging that the pioneering designer/creator gives up.

Ground breakers and trend setters adopt the Nike catch phrase - Just Do It.

Edwin Land made Polaroid.
Maitani made OM1.
Steve Jobs made iPhone.
Akio Morita made Walkman.
Chester Carlson made Photocopier.
Oppenheimer + fellow scientists made Atomic Bomb.
Indian maths genius Srinivasa Ramanujan mathematics theories 100 years ago can be applied to explain phenomena today.

If Olympus wants to make a full frame or medium format digital ILC, then don't fear so much.
 

Pitachu

Member
Sep 18, 2019
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Good News! Another manufacturer plan to supply lens for Micro 4/3!
Looks like more and more manufacturer sees a future on M43 :)

 

swifty

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2004
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davophoto.wordpress.com
Good News! Another manufacturer plan to supply lens for Micro 4/3!
Looks like more and more manufacturer sees a future on M43 :)

Sigma already supplies to the m43 market and of course that's a good thing. But the 43rumors post's headline was plain wrong initially (claiming most new mirrorless products will be for APS-C/m43), but at least the admin updated it now to be more accurate.
Translate Yamaki's tweet and it says that FF line will be their main products. But he does mention expansion of their mirrrorless APS-C/m43 lines too.
 

Pitachu

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I cannot read Japanese, but it does seem that he mentioned for MFT use :)

73087


Sigma already supplies to the m43 market and of course that's a good thing. But the 43rumors post's headline was plain wrong initially (claiming most new mirrorless products will be for APS-C/m43), but at least the admin updated it now to be more accurate.
Translate Yamaki's tweet and it says that FF line will be their main products. But he does mention expansion of their mirrrorless APS-C/m43 lines too.
 

swifty

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2004
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I cannot read Japanese, but it does seem that he mentioned for MFT use :)

View attachment 73087
I don't either but if you click on the link to the original tweet and enter the text into google translate you get:
"Thank you very much. Most new products in the future will be the DN series designed exclusively for mirrorless cameras. The DG DN series for full-size mirrorless, which is frequently requested, will be the center, but we believe that we need to expand the DC DN for APS-C (+ MFT), which is currently popular. You."

I own a Sigma 56mm f/1.4 for my m43 system. Very good bang for your buck lens although admittedly I don't use it much.
 

Pitachu

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I own a Sigma 56mm f/1.4 for my m43 system. Very good bang for your buck lens although admittedly I don't use it much.
For about the same price, I have the Olympus 60mm Macro instead.
This is one of the sharpest Olympus Lenses!

Not sure what's the use of a 56mm 1.4 (equal to 112mm).
Is it for Portraits? A bit too zoomed in for me.

I got the Olympus 45mm 1.8 for Portraits from someone who do not want it
(Olympus has been bundling and giving this lens away recently).
 

ricohflex

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Feb 24, 2005
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Sigma CEO is simply saying most future Sigma lenses will be made for mirrorless market. (as opposed to say, mirrored DSLR)
Sigma is aware of growing mirrorless ILC full frame market, - and as a side comment say, it will cater to APC-C mirrorless and MFT market.

Sigma CEO's 2020 statement is not a boost for MFT.
Quite the opposite. Sigma main concentration will be on making lenses for full frame mirrorless ILC.

Sigma is not "new" manufacturer for MFT.
But only a few Sigma models of lenses were made for MFT over many years, with some quickly discontinued.

There are users who are heavily invested in MFT and a few websites who champion MFT.
Which they have a right to, if they like it.
Of course the so-called Olympus MFT "brand ambassadors" have a Vested Interest to lavish praise on MFT.
One should understand their predicament. It is about 揾食.

MFT will not die suddenly overnight as in here today, gone tomorrow, within 1 day.
Kodak film industry also took a long time to die.
It is a long drawn out process. A slow and painful corporate death.

The process starts out slow. Eventually companies and consumers accept the market realities.
Then after a few years, it accelerates in a dramatic off the cliff drop.
And then it is history.

The key factor is Competition.

In and by itself MFT is not "bad".
Just that by 2020 and beyond, the competing formats APS-C and Full Frame have made splendid improvements.
Which new consumers will not ignore.

When MFT dies, the existing MFT equipment already bought by users will not suddenly stop working.
They can continue to be used, if you wish.
 

swifty

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Oct 12, 2004
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For about the same price, I have the Olympus 60mm Macro instead.
This is one of the sharpest Olympus Lenses!

Not sure what's the use of a 56mm 1.4 (equal to 112mm).
Is it for Portraits? A bit too zoomed in for me.

I got the Olympus 45mm 1.8 for Portraits from someone who do not want it
(Olympus has been bundling and giving this lens away recently).
I have both the 60mm f/2.8 macro and 56mm f/1.4 and used to own the 45mm f/1.8.
The macro for macro purposes and the 56 is my travel portrait lens. The reason I don't use it much is the 10-25 is my preferred focal length and what I use probably over 90% of the time.
When I'm shooting portraiture but not travelling, I'm using my Nikkor 105mm f/1.4. I prefer the 105's over the 85's for portraits but that's just me.