Olympus 150-400mm


Pitachu

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More shots from the Olympus 150-400mm lenses

https://www.43rumors.com/impressive-this-is-how-you-see-the-67km-distant-mount-fuji-when-using-the-2x-converter-on-the-new-olympus-150-400-f4-5-lens/

After seeing some shots from my colleague's photos of the moon and planets which he shot with the Nikon P1000, I was tempted to get one to shoot planets. I am excited that I am soon able to do it with this new Olympus 150-400 (provided the price is within my reach :)
 

ricohflex

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Compare size within MFT products.

What is the PRICE $$$ of the lens?
Is it made in Japan or China or Vietnam? (so far no reviewer wants to talk about this)
Does it make a difference? To some, yes if they are paying lots of $$$.

What is the weight of the lens? (are not MFT items supposed to be small and light?) (so far no reviewer wants to talk about this)
What is total length in MM of the lens with the hood attached? (so far no reviewer wants to talk about this)
What is thickest diameter in MM of the lens? (so far no reviewer wants to talk about this)

How often would you use this lens if you bought it?
What is % of photographers who do bird photography or take photos of the moon surface?
If you use it with any other MFT model except E-M1X body, it would look unbalanced.

There is a big gaping hole on the side for the manual lever switch from 1x to 1.25x.
Presumably in heavy rain, rainwater does enter this ingress cavity.
In the desert, wind blown fine sand will enter. Sand is abrasive.
Thus internal gaskets and O rings will be the last defence to uphold the "weather seal".
As with all products, gaskets and O rings will deteriorate over time.

Is this a "vanity" project for Olympus?
Perhaps they made this hoping it will be used in Tokyo 2020 Olympics as a last hurrah.
But with the Covid-19, who knows....the Olympics may be delayed although now bureaucrats insist no.
The number of infected cases in Japan may spike to very high. Then what?

How many do they expect to sell?
Some time before Samsung scrapped their NX range they did announce plans to make a super expensive giant 300mm F2.8 lens for that camera.
And even displayed it in camera shows.
It is always like that. Maybe the correct phrase is "going out with a bang".
Like an implied announcement that the Olympus Camera Imaging Division will be nixed.

 

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Pitachu

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What is the PRICE $$$ of the lens?
>>> Sony FE 100-400 4.5-5-6 = USD 2498
>>> Canon 100-400 4.5-5-6 = USD 1799
>>> Olympus 150-400 4.5 (Constant Aperature) at the most is USD 2499 x 1.3 = USD 3248
>>> Maybe add USD 300-400 to the build in 1.25x Teleconverter, so maybe USD 3648
>>> Olympus has to be realistic, it cannot sell way above the price of USD3600,
>>> a Sony FE 100-400 + Sony 6600 (USD1200) = USD3600

Is it made in Japan or China or Vietnam? (so far no reviewer wants to talk about this)
Does it make a difference? To some, yes if they are paying lots of $$$.
>>> Likely that the lenses be made in Japan, don't think Olympus want to transfer the technology out of Japan yet.



What is the weight of the lens? (are not MFT items supposed to be small and light?) (so far no reviewer wants to talk about this)
What is total length in MM of the lens with the hood attached? (so far no reviewer wants to talk about this)
What is thickest diameter in MM of the lens? (so far no reviewer wants to talk about this)
>>> For lens reaching 800mm to 2000mm, it cannot be small and light.
>>> However, it is definitely the lightest and maybe shortest among any SLR kit that can reach 800mm to 2000mm.
>>> It could have a larger diameter, as no other SLR has a constant aperature 100-400 I think.


How often would you use this lens if you bought it?
>> I will buy if I can use once a month for 2 years (personal opinion)

What is % of photographers who do bird photography or take photos of the moon surface?
>>> currently, the 300mm (600mm equivalent is bare enough for birding). even with the
>>>TC 2x, I feel a bit restricted. A 150-400mm zoom is definitely nicer to use, as sometimes
>>>the birds or animal is closer. Being able to shoot planets is only a Bonus.

If you use it with any other MFT model except E-M1X body, it would look unbalanced.
>>> Agreed as I have tried the Olympus 300mm F4 on my EM5 Mk3 (on loan)

There is a big gaping hole on the side for the manual lever switch from 1x to 1.25x.
Presumably in heavy rain, rainwater does enter this ingress cavity.
In the desert, wind blown fine sand will enter. Sand is abrasive.
Thus internal gaskets and O rings will be the last defence to uphold the "weather seal".
As with all products, gaskets and O rings will deteriorate over time.
>>> It is still probably sealed. But it is not something I keep adjusting, lile a TC.
>>> Once I set it, I probably used it for a couple of hours. So I will just put a tape
>>> over it just in case.

Is this a "vanity" project for Olympus?
Perhaps they made this hoping it will be used in Tokyo 2020 Olympics as a last hurrah.
>>> Yes, it is obviously meant for the Olympic 2020, just like the Canon 1Dx Mk3.

How many do they expect to sell?
>>> I believe it will sell more than the Olympus 300mm F4, as I personally find it more useful.
>>> I have joined one of Olympus birding events and quite a few photographers, especially
>>> those with the 300mm F4 lens are really interested in this 150-400mm lens.
 

skf

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If performance is good through out the range and price is right, I am buying.

I don't shoot the moon or planets, I shoot birds, currently for M43, my birding lens is PL 100-400.

Weight and size size, a good guess would that it should be around the size of either Sony FE 100-400, Canon 100-400 or maybe Sony 200-600.

I am hoping that local price be under $5k.
:cool: :)
 

ricohflex

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This lens is about making a statement:
"Look at what Olympus can do."
Although few customers would actually buy it.
But Olympus feels that it is important to prove that they can actually make such a lens.

The following lenses are also about making a statement and are not practical for normal people to afford, buy or use:
Leica APO-Telyt-R 1600mm F5.6 lens (Price is USD$2 Million)
Nikkor Z 58mm f/0.95 S Noct lens (Price is USD$8,000)
Fisheye Nikkor 6mm f/2.8 lens (Price is USD$160,000)
Carl Zeiss Apo Sonnar T* 1700mm F4 (Price is so expensive they do not even want to tell you)
 

Pitachu

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Thanks for thinking that it is a statement lens.
The Olympus 150-400mm is definitely not a statement lenses.
Amd as a Olympus user and follower, I don't think it is.
After all, Panasonic already has a smaller 100-400mm F4-6.3mm.

The Olympus 150-400 is only addressing a need for a
super-tele zoom, which I believed is desired by a sizable group of Olympus users.

Quoting some exotic lenses are out of context.
The Olympus 150-400mm will not be at those prices.
In fact, I don't think it is going to way above USD $3600 (look at my previous post).

If you notice, Olympus always focus on a slightly more "premium" option.
Panasonic Leica 12-60 vs Olympus 12-100
Panasonic Leica 8-16 vs Olympus 7-14 etc.

This gives consumers options either to fit a higher budget or search
or something smaller or lighter. This is what I like about M43 system :)

And if you look at similar lenses on Sony, Nikon and Canon
to reach above 600mm F4, I think they are more impractical
as they costs more than US$12,000 on BH website.

That is why the Olympus 150-400 has even captured the attention of one of
my friend who is a Sony user. He actually say that he can buy the 150-400mm lenses
with the EM1.3 body thrown in with spare cash for a few safari trip instead of
buying the Sony Super-tele!


This lens is about making a statement:
"Look at what Olympus can do."
Although few customers would actually buy it.
But Olympus feels that it is important to prove that they can actually make such a lens.

The following lenses are also about making a statement and are not practical for normal people to afford, buy or use:
Leica APO-Telyt-R 1600mm F5.6 lens (Price is USD$2 Million)
Nikkor Z 58mm f/0.95 S Noct lens (Price is USD$8,000)
Fisheye Nikkor 6mm f/2.8 lens (Price is USD$160,000)
Carl Zeiss Apo Sonnar T* 1700mm F4 (Price is so expensive they do not even want to tell you)
 

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swifty

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Actually I doubt this lens will be cheap at all but it also won’t cost as much as the Nikon and Canon 180/200-400mm f/4 with Tc1.4. Those out-spec the Olympus 150-400 f/4.5 with TC1.25 in just about every way so at least they set a price ceiling.

At it’s long end the Olympus’s aperture is almost a stop wider than the Sony/Canon/Nikon 100/80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 lenses plus it’ll have a built in matched TC1.25 so it should be a fair bit more than these.

I would love it to cost in the $US3600 range but I fear it may be a fair bit higher. But at least I think this lens plays to the strength of m43. But it needs to perform noticeably better than the FF 200-600mm type lenses (used cropped) whilst being smaller to justify a high-ish price IMO.
 

Blu-By-U

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I doubt it will be cheap and small. In the past they had that 90-250/2.8 which to me is super Expensive and HUGE.
 

Pitachu

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No, it will not be cheap and small.
Even at my hopeful price of US$3600 is not cheap!
But I am sure that it will be cheaper and lighter than any other brand :)

Just compare the price of the Olympus 300mm F4 to any lens 35mm equivalent to a 600mm F4 lens.
The Olympus 300mm F4 only cost US$2749
Nikon, Canon, Sony cost US$12000 for their 600mm F4 lens.
Sure, you do get better Image quality, resolution etc.
but you are paying about 5x the price for maybe ??% better image quality

This is a huge plus point for M43 :cool:

I doubt it will be cheap and small. In the past they had that 90-250/2.8 which to me is super Expensive and HUGE.
 

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ricohflex

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The characteristic of MFT is the 2x crop factor (if you want long telephoto shots).
This crop factor is also its weakness, if you like very wide angle photos with legacy lenses. Your 20mm legacy lens becomes a 40mm.

I came across an article of an interview with Olympus staff who marketing spinned the 2x crop factor as a plus for MFT.
But only at the expense of a minuscule MFT sensor.

If one carries the marketing spin idea further then the Nikon P900 comes to mind.
With 24mm to 2400mm zoom with "dynamic fine zoom" (fancy name for digital magnification making it 4000mm equivalent).
But this is achieved at the cost of a pathetic sorrowful small micro lousy sensor that is 1/2.3 inch.
Now Nikon has a P1000 new model.
Canon and Sony have their equivalent bridge camera models of "super zooms" with small sensors.

The current generation of high MP sensors in full frame cameras, may allow cropping of an image to mimic the effect of using a very long telephoto lens.
This reminds me of Leica Q (Mark 1) which has a fixed 28mm lens but the marketing spin talks about "zoom" to 50mm.
Which is actually cropping your image down to 7.5MP

So if you use a Sony A7R IV with 61 MP and a 100 - 400mm lens.
You can crop that 61MP photo down to mimic a photo taken with a 800mm lens.
Sony now has a 200 - 600mm lens.
With the added advantage that when you are not cropping, you get the full 61 MP with every photo that you take.

Is the Olympus 150 - 450 F4.5 lens a winner? Maybe not.
Probably a case of too late, too expensive, too big, too heavy. With 2.8% market share, they cannot make it.
Some one guessed price is about USD$6,000.
The lens comes at a time when MFT is in dramatic decline and especially so for Olympus camera imaging division.
 

swifty

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I obviously meant cheaper and smaller relative to its performance when taking into account equivalence.

The competition isn’t the100-400 on FF. Cropped 2X does give you a similar AOV range but even a 61MP FF is down to 15+MP and f/5.6 on the long side vs 20+MP and f/4.5 on m43. Add the TC to get to 1000mm AOV equiv and that 61MP FF crop is now down to 9.7MP.

The 200-600 type lens on FF used in APS-C cropped mode or on an APS-C camera is where the competition is. But the 200-600’s are also much bigger than the100-400’s.

Guessing from some of the comparison pics floating around I’m estimating it’ll slot in in between the 100-400 and 200-600 type lenses in terms of size.
Performance wise I think Olympus will be gunning for the exotics hence I think even US$3600 is optimistic. But like I said, I hope to be wrong on this one.
 

Pitachu

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The characteristic of MFT is the 2x crop factor (if you want long telephoto shots).
This crop factor is also its weakness, if you like very wide angle photos with legacy lenses. Your 20mm legacy lens becomes a 40mm.

>>> You are right on the Crop factor, but it is interesting to note that Sony only have up to 16mm for its Full Frame lenes
whereas on Olympus, you can get a 7-14mm lenes (equal to 14mm wide on Full Frame) by Panasonic or Olympus.

So if you use a Sony A7R IV with 61 MP and a 100 - 400mm lens.
You can crop that 61MP photo down to mimic a photo taken with a 800mm lens.
Sony now has a 200 - 600mm lens.

>>> The Sony 200-600 is a 5.6 - 6.3 Lens (variable aperture).
The correct comparison should be with the Panasonic Leica 100-400mm (200-800mm) F4-6.3
which is already 1 stop wider.

I don't think anyone should write off the Olympus 150-400 so quickly. If you analyze the
all the options from other brands, it has a niche where other brands of DSLRs has not come out with.

To me, 150-400mm (300mm - 800mm) F4 is something I find useful
With the built in 1.25 TC, it is 375mm - 1000mm (really ideal for sports, birding and wildlife)
With the TC 2.0, it is 750mm - 2000mm (wild life / astrology)

Of course, if you are not into sports, birding, wildlife or astrology,
there is nothing much to talk about, just like a 61Mp camera is
of no use to me (but damn good for many photographers).

We just need to choose the gear most suited to our needs :cool:

[/QUOTE]
 

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Pitachu

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Found this survey on MU43. Hopefully Olympus Marketing departing seen it as well and price it accordingly :)
If they price it above US$4K, their sales is going to drop by 90%!

72891
 

swifty

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I don't think anyone should write off the Olympus 150-400 so quickly. If you analyze the
all the options from other brands, it has a niche where other brands of DSLRs has not come out with.
Indeed. If you're analysing this lens (and for a lens costing this sort of money you would research it pretty carefully) I think you'll find the advantages gear more and more towards the m43 setup the longer the focal length one needs.
Most of the variable zooms from other systems that we're casually comparing to drops to its lowest max aperture quickly into the focal length range. So even from an equivalence POV the Olympus setup is competitive, particularly at the longer end of the zoom range. And for this type of lens it's often the long end that makes or breaks it.
But this is before we even take into account the optical performance of the 150-400mm. (it's f/4.5 btw) which is an unknown atm. But the optical performance will determine how high this lens will be priced.

As a quick equivalence comparision, in FF terms we have:

1.) E-m1.3 with 150-400 f/4.5 = 300-800mm f/9 + 800-100mm f/11.25 all at 20MP

2.) A7R4 with 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 = 100-115mm f/4.5, 116-161mm f/5, 162-400mm f/5.6 all at 61MP.
Then cropping: 400-640mm f/5.6-f/9 from 61MP to 24MP, Then 640-800mm f/9-11.2 from 24MP to 15.25MP, Then 800-1000mm f/11.2-14 from 15MP to 9.7MP.

3.) A7R4 with 200-600 f/5.6-6.3 = 200-299mm f/5.6-6.3, 300-600mm f/6.3 all at 61MP.
Then cropping: 600-840mm f/6.3-9 from 61MP to 31MP, 840-1000mm f/9-10.5 from 31mp to 24MP.

Hence why I think the 200-600 type lenses are more of the 150-400's competition in FF or APS-C.
So the Olympus 150-400 needs to be smaller than the 200-600's (not 100-400's) and optically clearly better to attract the birders and other types of photographers that regularly want more than 600mm. If it can achieve those things, it can be a compelling option for that niche.

As for price, again I think it comes down to performance, optical foremostly. That'll justify the price but you're right, if they price it too high they're going to loose a big chunk of the market no matter the performance. They'll be wise to make it a bit less exotic but keeping it under $4kUSD.
 

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Pitachu

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I think you should use the EM1.3 + Panasonic 100-400 F4-6.3 to compare it with the Sony 200-600 F5.6-6.3.
as both are variable aperture lenses and thus smaller and lighter.

The Olympus 150-400 F4 is a not only 1 to 1.5 stops wider, it is also fixed aperture and has a built in TC,
so it is not far to expect it to be lighter than the Sony 200-600.

Indeed. If you're analysing this lens (and for a lens costing this sort of money you would research it pretty carefully) I think you'll find the advantages gear more and more towards the m43 setup the longer the focal length one needs.
Most of the variable zooms from other systems that we're casually comparing to drops to its lowest max aperture quickly into the focal length range. So even from an equivalence POV the Olympus setup is competitive, particularly at the longer end of the zoom range. And for this type of lens it's often the long end that makes or breaks it.
But this is before we even take into account the optical performance of the 150-400mm. (it's f/4.5 btw) which is an unknown atm. But the optical performance will determine how high this lens will be priced.

As a quick equivalence comparision, in FF terms we have:

1.) E-m1.3 with 150-400 f/4.5 = 300-800mm f/9 + 800-100mm f/11.25 all at 20MP

2.) A7R4 with 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 = 100-115mm f/4.5, 116-161mm f/5, 162-400mm f/5.6 all at 61MP.
Then cropping: 400-640mm f/5.6-f/9 from 61MP to 24MP, Then 640-800mm f/9-11.2 from 24MP to 15.25MP, Then 800-1000mm f/11.2-14 from 15MP to 9.7MP.

3.) A7R4 with 200-600 f/5.6-6.3 = 200-299mm f/5.6-6.3, 300-600mm f/6.3 all at 61MP.
Then cropping: 600-840mm f/6.3-9 from 61MP to 31MP, 840-1000mm f/9-10.5 from 31mp to 24MP.

Hence why I think the 200-600 type lenses are more of the 150-400's competition in FF or APS-C.
So the Olympus 150-400 needs to be smaller than the 200-600's (not 100-400's) and optically clearly better to attract the birders and other types of photographers that regularly want more than 600mm. If it can achieve those things, it can be a compelling option for that niche.

As for price, again I think it comes down to performance, optical foremostly. That'll justify the price but you're right, if they price it too high they're going to loose a big chunk of the market no matter the performance. They'll be wise to make it a bit less exotic but keeping it under $4kUSD.
 

ricohflex

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Laowa 12mm f/2.8 is made for Sony E mount full frame, Canon EF full frame also Nikon F mount full frame.
It is manual focus. Claims to be zero distortion.

7mm -14mm lens for MFT (giving 14mm - 28mm) is alright, but less wide than 12mm..
Distortion correction is applied to photos taken with 7mm - 14mm lens by the MFT camera processor.

Back to the 150mm - 400mm MFT lens.
The smaller the sensor is, the bigger the crop factor (means the longer telephoto).

Designers balance :

how much telephoto focal length is desired
against
how tolerable is the image quality from a very small sensor.
 

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swifty

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I think you should use the EM1.3 + Panasonic 100-400 F4-6.3 to compare it with the Sony 200-600 F5.6-6.3.
as both are variable aperture lenses and thus smaller and lighter.

The Olympus 150-400 F4 is a not only 1 to 1.5 stops wider, it is also fixed aperture and has a built in TC,
so it is not far to expect it to be lighter than the Sony 200-600.
The Panasonic comparison is easy enough given they are both native m43 lenses. And as expected given the aperture differences, the Panasonic lens will be significantly smaller and cheaper.

I just gave the Sony comparisons because they are in another format and hence a direct comparison is a bit more difficult especially once you factor in crops and drops in resolution and equivalent f-numbers. And because the Sony’s are the only 100-400 and 200-600 that exist in mirrorless atm. But both are on Nikon’s Z roadmap so in a year we can have more comparisons.
It’s also interesting to note both 100-400’s for Sony and Nikon Z are GM’s and S designations that are part of their respective premium range. Whereas the 200-600’s are not.
There’s reports the 200-600’s already at its limits on the A7r4’s 61MP so cropping will only make things worse. So I’m expecting the 150-400 Oly to easily out-perform that combo at the long end.
 

ricohflex

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Both Tamron and Sigma make 150mm to 600mm F5-6.3 zooms for full frame. Sigma gets the better reviews than Tamron.
Both cheaper than lenses from original manufacturers. Amazon price for Sigma is about SGD$1,440.
If Olympus 150mm to 400mm for MFT is priced very high, a few will be sold. But the remaining 97% made and in stock will remain unsold.
It does not matter.
The Olympus parent company is mentally prepared to lose more than USD$100 Million Each Year for the next 10 years on Olympus Camera Imaging Division.
So who cares? It is a vanity project for Tokyo Olympics 2020, which may be cancelled if virus infected increases a lot in Japan.
 

Pitachu

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Not sure what is your intention by comparing a Pro series lenses with a fixed aperture and builtin Teleconverter
with 3rd party lenses with variable aperture.

I am not insulting Sigma or Tamron, but I dont think they should be compared with any brand of Pro Lenses
as they are of a different class altogether. The Panasonic Leica 100-400 is a more appropriate lenses to be
used as a yard stick to compare the Tamron and SIgma, which users are prepared to pay a premium for the
PL lenses.

The Olympus 150-400 F4.5 is a Pro series fixed aperture targeted for users prepared to pay another
premium above the PL 100-400 lenses. If the price of the Oly 150-400 is beyond the reach of some users,
the PL with a tele range of 200mm to 800mm is very nice to have for a start. :)

Both Tamron and Sigma make 150mm to 600mm F5-6.3 zooms for full frame. Sigma gets the better reviews than Tamron.
Both cheaper than lenses from original manufacturers. Amazon price for Sigma is about SGD$1,440.
If Olympus 150mm to 400mm for MFT is priced very high, a few will be sold. But the remaining 97% made and in stock will remain unsold.
It does not matter.
The Olympus parent company is mentally prepared to lose more than USD$100 Million Each Year for the next 10 years on Olympus Camera Imaging Division.
So who cares? It is a vanity project for Tokyo Olympics 2020, which may be cancelled if virus infected increases a lot in Japan.
 

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