New in Macro


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May 31, 2005
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#1
quick question, 100mm canon macro lens or close up lens for taking really really close up shoot. especially like spider eyes.
 

May 14, 2008
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#2
well it really depends how big is your spider and how close you dare to stand. I have a Nikon 105. The closest and still maintain focus, I could frame the whole 10 cent coin (DX body). I think the min focus distance should not vary much between C100 and the N105 so thats should be a good guide for you.
 

gymak90

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Jan 5, 2008
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#3
I think 'close up lens' is just another name for macro lens?

There are close up filters, but they just decrease minimum focusing distance of any lens but does not make the lens a true macro lens. They also reduce image quality.

Too make your small subject really big, you have to get a macro lens with the lowest minimum focusing distance and stand close.
 

Apr 15, 2008
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#4
I think 'close up lens' is just another name for macro lens?
nope, wrong there :)
many telephoto lenses and double as 'close-up' lenses but only macro lenses can achieve a 1:1 ratio on 35mm film. At least thats the definition :bsmilie:

to TS:
the Canon 100m macro's a good sharp lens...but if you want to get extreme detail you may need to:
1)attach a teleconvertor to the lens
2) dabble around with reverse lens coupling. I think headshotzx knows quite a lot regarding this
3)dabble with close-up filters


hope this helps :)
 

gymak90

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Jan 5, 2008
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#5
nope, wrong there :)
many telephoto lenses and double as 'close-up' lenses but only macro lenses can achieve a 1:1 ratio on 35mm film. At least thats the definition :bsmilie:
Oh ok. Meaning close-up lens only help to reduce MFD but not reaching 1:1 ratio?
Like those 'macro' lenses from Sigma etc..:bsmilie:
 

zac08

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2005
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#7
Now to increase magnification,

you should be looking at stacked reversed lenses or extension tubes.
 

Headshotzx

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Dec 14, 2007
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#8
I see my name up there ;) Cheers Daedalus Trent.

Here's some 85mm 1.8 + 50mm 1.8 reverse macro shots.
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401640.

Do you have a 50mm lying around? If so, try this: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4236539&postcount=38, replacing the 85mm with your 100mm. Do note that you will have to go super near and need to have flash. No autofocus as well, so you have to move the camera (no turning of focusing ring).

Cheers
Zexun
 

May 31, 2005
393
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16
Earth
#9
thanks headshotzx, but its kinda complicated. maybe i tell you my objective and you advise me, can?

objective: to able to shoot "really" close up on a object. e.g. my marine fish tank inhibitants. those shrimp and creatures in the tank are awfully small and tiny. what i would like is to capture their eyes and limps etc and able to see really up close. so close that i can see their pores!!! hahaha... if i can manage to keep them still, that is another task.

thinking about getting canon 100mm marco lens. will this suffice? or do i need to get a close up lens, e.g. 500D. another important factor is that i need auto focus as well.


i do have a 580ex flash, so lightings is not an issue.

many thanks in advance.
 

Apr 15, 2008
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#10
I see my name up there ;) Cheers Daedalus Trent.
haha! i'll never forgot the eyeshot you took :D

objective: to able to shoot "really" close up on a object. e.g. my marine fish tank inhibitants. those shrimp and creatures in the tank are awfully small and tiny. what i would like is to capture their eyes and limps etc and able to see really up close. so close that i can see their pores!!! hahaha... if i can manage to keep them still, that is another task.

thinking about getting canon 100mm marco lens. will this suffice? or do i need to get a close up lens, e.g. 500D. another important factor is that i need auto focus as well.

i do have a 580ex flash, so lightings is not an issue.

many thanks in advance.
I think if you disregard movement, photos you take with a 100mm macro'll be very useable. However, if the little critters move about too much... you could kill them with ethanol then photograph them :) (ok...you may object to killing them :sweat:)


and did you say lightings not an issue? hohoho :devil: you may need a flash cable of sth cos using an external flash mounted on the camera isn't gonna do much good. the light simply can't reach to a subject <10cm in front of the lens
 

Headshotzx

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2007
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#11
What you need is a longer focusing distance macro lens, plus a close up lens plus a tele-converter if you want to take extreme closeups of something in the water.

Okay, so the shrimp is in the water. Depending on where it is, the limiting factor will be how close you can get to it.

You must understand that no matter what, macro shots need you to get as close to something as possible. The glass will be your limiting factor like I said above. The Canon 100mm macro needs a 30cm MFD for 1:1 shots. Obviously you're not looking for 1:1 shots (I hope), if you are, that's not called extreme macro already.

If you are closer than 30cm, then you should get a set of extension tubes. Go around the stores to find a kenko extension tube set, don't get Canon because there's no difference.

And you will need flash. Off-camera flash direct from above would be good, depending on whether your camera has a dedicated PC-sync port, it might just cost you the price of one wire. If your camera only has a hotshoe, forget it, and just mount the 580EX onto the hotshoe instead.

In conclusion, most probably the 100mm will be good, but for you to get extreme macro shots you WILL NEED a set of extension tubes. No need 500D close-up filter yet.
 

Mar 10, 2008
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hi
#12
If spider is dangerous then get a 200mm F4 micro.For canon get a 180mm f3.5L.:thumbsup:
Superb working distance and IQ
 

Headshotzx

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2007
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#13
If spider is dangerous then get a 200mm F4 micro.For canon get a 180mm f3.5L.:thumbsup:
Superb working distance and IQ
...

He isn't taking a spider. Can shrimps kill a human? Are they dangerous? Are they evil?

I did this up in about 5 mins to show you what you need. Enjoy.




He can press the lens against the glass, and since the MFD is 30cm on the 100mm macro, he will need extension tubes so that the MFD goes down to somewhere around 10cm or so. Basically, if the above setup is set up without the extension tube, he can't focus on the shrimp. So he has to add the extension tube to make the camera "short-sighted" and focus closer, and close.. and closer.. keep adding extension tubes (kenko has a set of 3 tubes I think) until the MFD becomes 10cm or less. only then can he focus and grab the good shot.

Cheers
Zexun
 

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May 31, 2005
393
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16
Earth
#14
wow! thanks a lot headshotzx for taking the time to draw out what i needed. really appreciate!!!

let's narrow down to be specific.

what i need for such extreme marco photography is

1. canon 100mm macro
2. extension tubes set (kenko) - may i know the specific model they offer so the shopkeeper dun look at me as it i speak in alien language. can i get higher specs of extension tubes set to go even lower than 10cm? maybe 1-3cm if possible!!!!

for flash, does the macro ring helps? or an off-shoe flash (connect to my hot-shoe via cable) is preferred?


Question on extension tube. is it just screw on to the front of canon 100mm macro lens? easy as that? or is it gonna be complicated setting up?

so based on my setup above, i can take the "eye" shot as what you did in other thread too? heehee.... that's a great shot, btw.
 

Headshotzx

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2007
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#15
Sure, no prob, glad it helped you =)

You will need:
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 macro & Kenko Extension Tube Set (review). I'm not too sure about the price though.

For flash.. ehh.. What camera body are you using? If you use a 30D / 40D / 50D camera, there is a PC sync port. If you don't and you're using 350D/400D/450D.. then uhh.. just try with your 580EXII mounted on the camera, direct flash lor. Cannot do anything else, unless you invest in wireless radio triggered flash (where you will have to work your flash in manual).

The macro-twin-lite flash setup would be awesome if you don't just use the setup for shrimp / aquarium shooting, that is take pics of insects too. The closer you get to an insect, the better the macro flash will perform. Do note that it is super expensive, so if I were you, I'd just try with the 580EXII alone. Infact, you can try to get a stofen omnibounce so that the light is distributed in all directions, so some will hit the shrimp.

Talking about magnification, I'm not sure. You see, in macro photography terms, we talk in ratios. 1:1 means the size of the object is the same as the image on the sensor. The bigger the left-hand-side number, the larger the magnification, meaning the image is bigger. I'm not sure how things work out, but yes, if it's 10cm with extension tubes instead of 30cm, you will definitely get to see the shrimp to be way bigger. So you can see how its crap looks like, if it's translucent.

The extension tube is like another lens. Basically you mount the extension tube(s) to your camera first, then you mount your 100mm macro. Do note that extension tubes make your camera short sighted because the lens is further away from the sensor, so it can't focus to infinity. Meaning that with the extension tubes, your macro lens can't focus on the wall across the room, but only on near things. Get it?

You can definitely take something like the eye shot.. if you have:
#1 your setup above
#2 a willing person who doesn't mind to become blind from flash
#3 a willing person who knows how to stay still
#4 lots and lots of time for those "ALAMAK, BLUR LA, CAN LET ME SHOOT AGAIN?!" moments, because, frankly, those shots are quite difficult to pull off using reverse macro.

Oh, and even though you said you would need autofocus, I really recommend you to use manual focus unless your aquarium lighted up extremely well.

Use f/8 - f/11 aperture for shooting, and up the ISO accordingly.

Cheers
Zexun
 

May 31, 2005
393
0
16
Earth
#16
woohoo!!! wonderfully explained. many thanks again. if you are organising any macro outings. let me know. would love the chance to learn from your goodself!!!

more questions, heehee.

1. how about these combination?
extension tubes + canon 100mm + close up filter (e.g. 500D) = super duper extreme macro? so close can see shrimp's poo parasite!!! (buahahaha)

2. does stacking up a few extension tubes together shorten my shooting distance?

3. i have a 70-200mm, assume i can use this lens (as a replacement of 100mm macro) to try oiut first right? but shooting distance might be a bit far correct?

cheers!
 

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Nenjia

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2007
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#18
In my point of view, close up close focus and macro are different concept

1) macro -- request a floating elements
2) close up -- it is a attach glass for near taking
3) close focus -- it makes possible for large focus distance lensed ( 105/135...) to focus on close objects -- good for portraiture

they have different application area, some expert told me, they only consider those 1:1 and above will be macro, so many lenses maker declare the "macro lens" in fact is not macro lens if there is not floating element and smaller then 1:1

macro lens and macro shot are different too!
 

May 31, 2005
393
0
16
Earth
#19
With extension tubes...your 70-200mm can serve as a pretty decent macro :)
that's what i thought so but need confirmation from macro gurus. wonder if there's rental available for me to try out (extension tubes) before buying the lens/extension tubes.
 

Apr 15, 2008
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Singapore, east-ish
#20
that's what i thought so but need confirmation from macro gurus. wonder if there's rental available for me to try out (extension tubes) before buying the lens/extension tubes.
well....try them out at a shop? I don't think rental companies bother torent extension tubes. sorry there :sweat:
 

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