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richliow

New Member
Jul 9, 2005
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#1
lately i tried to shoot clouds at timing around 9 am to 10.30am in the morning....
1/320 F7.1

Been able to get good blue sky and nicely sculpted clouds,
but the spoil show is that my foreground pic for eg the trees.... or the buildings
always appear very dark....
then I change to 1/100..... the foreground becomes nice....but the sky ends up over exposed....

need advice from you gurus....=)
 

Snoweagle

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2005
14,002
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0
Pasir Ris, Singapore
#2
richliow said:
lately i tried to shoot clouds at timing around 9 am to 10.30am in the morning....
1/320 F7.1

Been able to get good blue sky and nicely sculpted clouds,
but the spoil show is that my foreground pic for eg the trees.... or the buildings
always appear very dark....
then I change to 1/100..... the foreground becomes nice....but the sky ends up over exposed....

need advice from you gurus....=)
Seems like u're using a point and shoot or a prosumer cam...

U can use the auto mode for a start, but in terms of prosumer cams and DSLRs, you can use the aperture priority mode to set the shutter speed for you. Use a tripod too but best if can use f/16 for sky shoots.
 

Stoned

Senior Member
May 7, 2004
4,378
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30
Changi
www.photo.net
#3
either use an NDGrad filter or the shortcut method. Double exposure and photomerge. Use a tripod
 

jOhO

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2003
6,485
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42
Singapore
www.expressivelyjoho.com
#4
Snoweagle said:
Seems like u're using a point and shoot or a prosumer cam...

U can use the auto mode for a start, but in terms of prosumer cams and DSLRs, you can use the aperture priority mode to set the shutter speed for you. Use a tripod too but best if can use f/16 for sky shoots.
i dun think u are answering his question at all.

sorree dun mean to gun u down, but this isn't a question of settings, modes, or tripods. don't want pple to get the wrong info.

this is a question of dynamic range, and it happens whether it's prosumer, consumer, pro, or just off the shelf hair spray (ok maybe not the hairspray part!!)

basically if u expose for the higlights (sky) u will underexpose the shadows (trees). expose for the trees, and u over expose the sky.

few things to do: choose ONE to expose for, becos shooting in the middle of both just won't work in most cases.

another way is to use filters. ND graduated filters are like "half sunglasses" one half clear, the other half darken, so obviously, you turn the filter that's dark to the sky, and that's clear, to the trees.

another way is to take two of the exact same shots one meter the sky, one meter the trees and put them together in post processing.

good luck.
 

Witness

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2004
6,943
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www.maverickatwork.com
#5
jOhO said:
i dun think u are answering his question at all.

sorree dun mean to gun u down, but this isn't a question of settings, modes, or tripods. don't want pple to get the wrong info.

this is a question of dynamic range, and it happens whether it's prosumer, consumer, pro, or just off the shelf hair spray (ok maybe not the hairspray part!!)

basically if u expose for the higlights (sky) u will underexpose the shadows (trees). expose for the trees, and u over expose the sky.

few things to do: choose ONE to expose for, becos shooting in the middle of both just won't work in most cases.

another way is to use filters. ND graduated filters are like "half sunglasses" one half clear, the other half darken, so obviously, you turn the filter that's dark to the sky, and that's clear, to the trees.

another way is to take two of the exact same shots one meter the sky, one meter the trees and put them together in post processing.

good luck.

actually depending on the situation....if he can count stops...he should be able to get a midpoint for both areas.... buten tt would result in the photo being flat...but at least everything is averagely exposed.... not too blown not too dark etc etc....
 

jOhO

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2003
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www.expressivelyjoho.com
#6
Witness said:
actually depending on the situation....if he can count stops...he should be able to get a midpoint for both areas.... buten tt would result in the photo being flat...but at least everything is averagely exposed.... not too blown not too dark etc etc....
yeah that's why i said in most cases.. not in all cases.. usually for my preference i won't shoot middle.. it doesn't work for me.. eheh

then again i'm not a landscape shooter.. wat do i know? :bsmilie: :bsmilie: ;p
 

idor

Senior Member
Nov 11, 2004
666
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0
42
Northern California
#7
Witness said:
actually depending on the situation....if he can count stops...he should be able to get a midpoint for both areas.... buten tt would result in the photo being flat...but at least everything is averagely exposed.... not too blown not too dark etc etc....
9 to 10:30 am hmmmm....... i am not sure if getting midpoint will work. easiest way is to get a grad ND filter..... :bsmilie:
 

JSNG

New Member
Jan 27, 2006
84
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0
#8
1. Shoot on a clear day, or at least when the sun is not block by clouds.
2. Shoot at the angle where the foreground is directly lit by sun, not blocked by shadows or clouds. Imagine something like 90 degrees between the sun, yourself and the foreground.
3. Use a polariser to cut off reflection and further deepen the blue sky. turn the ring to obtain desirable effect.

When the foreground is under shadow, the sky will be much brighter than the foreground, it wil exceed the contrast/dynamic range that can be well recorded. On a cloudy day, the sunlight hitting the ground are reduced, thus in comparison with the sky, it require different f-stop to correctly expose it.

So the key is to shoot when the sky and the foreground require similar f-stop to correctly expose.
 

student

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2004
3,078
0
0
#9
Snoweagle said:
Seems like u're using a point and shoot or a prosumer cam...

U can use the auto mode for a start, but in terms of prosumer cams and DSLRs, you can use the aperture priority mode to set the shutter speed for you. Use a tripod too but best if can use f/16 for sky shoots.

This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with P&S or prosumer cameras.

THis has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with aperture priority or whatever priority or no priority.

People who know about taking landscape photos will know the elementary fact that this is a problem with the extreme contrast of the scene, or what jOhO called dynamic range.

It does not matter if one is using the D2x or 1DsMkII, the same problem will arise.

The solutions to such a scenario was provided by jOhO's first post.

Metering for the middle values or "midpoint" will not make any difference. It is not a question of "flatness". It is still basically a problem of the sensor "Film or CCD/CMOS" unable to cope with the contrast.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert. But there are "experts" around here, you know.
 

~Arcanic~

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2005
2,671
0
0
Westy
#10
basically joho has answered your question, this will happen whenever the you have objects that are too contrasting (shooting a person with a backlit sun e.g.), if you are using digital,

and you really want to have proper exposure for your foreground n background, like what joho mentioned, use a tripod, take 2 exact shots of the same composition 1 meter for the sky and 1 meter for the foreground (your trees), merge them together in photoshop ba. :)
 

student

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2004
3,078
0
0
#11
~Arcanic~ said:
basically joho has answered your question, this will happen whenever the you have objects that are too contrasting (shooting a person with a backlit sun e.g.), if you are using digital,

and you really want to have proper exposure for your foreground n background, like what joho mentioned, use a tripod, take 2 exact shots of the same composition 1 meter for the sky and 1 meter for the foreground (your trees), merge them together in photoshop ba. :)

It has nothing to do with digital. No sensor (film or digital) can take extreme contrast with overblowing the high values or underexposing the shadows.
 

~Arcanic~

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2005
2,671
0
0
Westy
#12
student said:
It has nothing to do with digital. No sensor (film or digital) can take extreme contrast with overblowing the high values or underexposing the shadows.
doc, i think you misunderstood me.. haha, must be my lousy paragraphing... :bsmilie:

i meant if he was using digital, he can take 2 pics and merge them in photoshop... i dun mean that only digital has problems will the extreme contrast.. hehe ;p

maybe i shouldn separate the paragraphs.... :bsmilie:
 

student

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2004
3,078
0
0
#13
~Arcanic~ said:
doc, i think you misunderstood me.. haha, must be my lousy paragraphing... :bsmilie:

i meant if he was using digital, he can take 2 pics and merge them in photoshop... i dun mean that only digital has problems will the extreme contrast.. hehe ;p

maybe i shouldn separate the paragraphs.... :bsmilie:
Oh, OK. Got you!

The last phrase in the first paragraph should be the first phrase in the second paragraph!:bsmilie:
 

Clown

Moderator
Staff member
Mar 24, 2003
3,780
1
38
Singapore
#14
shoot raw. the difference is less than 2 stops. raw should be able to retrieve details from the single exposure.
 

Snoweagle

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2005
14,002
0
0
Pasir Ris, Singapore
#15
jOhO said:
i dun think u are answering his question at all.

sorree dun mean to gun u down, but this isn't a question of settings, modes, or tripods. don't want pple to get the wrong info.

this is a question of dynamic range, and it happens whether it's prosumer, consumer, pro, or just off the shelf hair spray (ok maybe not the hairspray part!!)

basically if u expose for the higlights (sky) u will underexpose the shadows (trees). expose for the trees, and u over expose the sky.

few things to do: choose ONE to expose for, becos shooting in the middle of both just won't work in most cases.

another way is to use filters. ND graduated filters are like "half sunglasses" one half clear, the other half darken, so obviously, you turn the filter that's dark to the sky, and that's clear, to the trees.

another way is to take two of the exact same shots one meter the sky, one meter the trees and put them together in post processing.

good luck.
Ah i get what u mean now...thanks for pointing that out :)
 

catchlights

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 27, 2004
21,903
46
48
Punggol, Singapore
www.foto-u.com
#16
To richliow,

You can use interesting foreground subject as silhouette to make the composition nicer.

But if you want foreground subject to stay within the exposure range, try to shoot from a angle which the sun behind you, means everything front lit.

If you have a PL filter, to get the max effect from the filter, the sun should be on your left or right, of course you also need to rotate the PL filter to get the max effect.

Another way will work is to use ND graduated filters.

JOho and student explain all regarding dynamic range or contrast range, for landscape some time the range can be exceed 5~6 stops, mid point exposure will not work at all.

Hope this help.
 

Snoweagle

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2005
14,002
0
0
Pasir Ris, Singapore
#17
student said:
This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with P&S or prosumer cameras.

THis has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with aperture priority or whatever priority or no priority.

People who know about taking landscape photos will know the elementary fact that this is a problem with the extreme contrast of the scene, or what jOhO called dynamic range.

It does not matter if one is using the D2x or 1DsMkII, the same problem will arise.

The solutions to such a scenario was provided by jOhO's first post.

Metering for the middle values or "midpoint" will not make any difference. It is not a question of "flatness". It is still basically a problem of the sensor "Film or CCD/CMOS" unable to cope with the contrast.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert. But there are "experts" around here, you know.
Yah...'experts', like some people.
 

student

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2004
3,078
0
0
#18
Snoweagle said:
Yah...'experts', like some people.
Yes, yes, like some self-claimed "expert" landscape photographer who dished out wrong information, and who also dished out advice after a few sessions of studio photographing people.
 

espn

Deregistered
Dec 20, 2002
21,905
0
0
Planet Nikon
#19
DR is one factor, the time of the day is another factor.

Just a lucky shot... but some of the information in the trees are too dark to be seen, looks ok at 100%.



Of cos.. a newbie shot...
 

lsisaxon

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2004
11,941
0
0
#20
Snoweagle said:
Yah...'experts', like some people.
There was an old rule of thumb. "Shoot with the sun about 45 degrees behind you".
 

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