Need advise for new camera.

[SpiderX]

Guys,
Long time I haven't been here. to make long story short, I decided to buy a DSLR after so many years dedicating my life to family affairs. Now I have some free times that I could spare some time for photography. I'm thinking of getting an OMD EM-5 MkII. If you have any thoughts/ alternate recommendations, please let me know.

The current deal I'm looking into is on Qoo10.sg. EM-5 MkII with M.ZUIKO 12-50mm F3.5-6.3 Zoom EZ Len (is that Kit lens?) for $1,371. Would it be a good deal or can I find better deals at the local shops?

Last but not least, please also recommend useful accessories for the camera. Addition to the body and lens, I might need a flash (since EM-5 has no built-in flash), a tripod and some other stuffs that I don't know yet. Pls recommend something that won't break my bank.

Regards,
Spidy

 

[ElCarnicero]

Hi

EM5 is not DSLR

It is mirrorless

You will need a dry cabinet also

And I think you should get a Sony a6000 instead

 

[SpiderX]

Hi

EM5 is not DSLR

It is mirrorless

You will need a dry cabinet also

And I think you should get a Sony a6000 instead

Thanks for correcting the term. Yap, it's a mirrorless. I actually preferred the micro four-third sensor and all-weather body seal of EM-5. But since you've mentioned Sony, please let me know what's the advantages it have over EM-5

 

[Octarine]

What makes you settle for the m43, EM5? What homework have you done? We need to see the rationale for your short listing so that we can either confirm your idea or make other suggestions.
The camera is less critical, you need to think about the entire system you will buy in. Key factors could be: costs of equipment without any special deals, availability of components (line up, shops), usability (design, ergonomics, menu) and others. For that, we usually recommend peple to head to the shops and have a touch and feel session with the camera. Because weight and ergonomics will matter most when you use the cameras.
Another point is the difference between optical viewfinder of DSLR and electronic viewfinder for mirrorless. Try them both, see what works best for you.
As additional equipment, the mentioned dry cabinet is a must. On top of that, a basic sensor cleaning kit, a decent camera bag (kit bags don't have much space left), CPL filter, a decent tripod come to my mind.
For tripod selection I recommend you grab a coffee (or whatever else you prefer) and read here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384016 - This will give you some pointers fr the selection. The rest is your preference and budget.

 

[Ah Keong]

Hi Spidey,

for mirrorless or DSLM,
have you considered the Other Olympus (OM-D E-M1 mark II, OM-D E-M10 mark III, E-PL8, etc)?
have you considered Fujifilm? (X-T2, X-Pro2, etc)?
have you considered Sony? (a6000, a6300, a6500, a7, etc)?
have you considered Canon? (M6, etc)?

other things to consider in a solution are lens. Does the system fit your needs?

Lastly, some basic accessories you may need to add like:
a) cleaning kits (blower, wipes, etc)
b) camera bag (backpack, messenger, etc)
c) tripod (aluminum, carbon fiber, twist lock, lever lock, etc)
d) filters (protection, clear, UV, ND, etc)
e) memory card reader
f) memory cards

for more info, you would need time to read through the link by Octarine.

 

[Wzierbovsky]

The E-M5 Mark II is a pretty decent camera - can't go wrong with it. However, the camera is also a few years old now. If you're on a tight budget, do consider the E-M10 Mark III - a newer model that while isn't as premium-built as the E-M5, it's better featured with more recent technology built it, and should be cheaper too. Comparison here:

https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/preview/olympus-omd-em10-ii-vs-omd-em5-ii/

Good chance that shops like TK Foto, SLR Revolution and MS Color will sell it for cheaper too. If you're hesitant about seeking e-quotations or asking in-person, visit TK Foto then since their prices are prominently displayed and usually competitive.

Do also consider the Panasonic GX85, which can be bought for several hundred dollars cheaper than the E-M5 Mark II.

Not intending to start a war about different systems here as the following is a personal opinion: the Sony A6000 is a pretty good alternative, and recent discounts have made it a very compelling purchase from a price/value-point of view. But were I in your shoes, I'd give it a miss - I feel that Sony seems to be more invested in their full-frame mirrorless line-up than their E-mount system. This won't matter if you're happy just acquiring a small handful of lenses and no more. But from what you've said, you're looking to seriously learn and spend time in this hobby - which means that at some point, expanding your lens collection might become appealing to you.

IMO too - the Fujifilm X system is also a really good alternative to m4/3s, and Fujifilm is really investing in completing their lens line-ups.

About accessories, sharing my own experience:
- Dry cabinet is a must
- A camera bag is also a must
- Flash unit is helpful: apart from the Olympus flash units, good alternatives are the Nissin i40 (compact, powerful and affordably-priced - just that the command dial paint job might fade easily) and the Meike MK320 (even smaller and much cheaper than the i40, slightly less powerful/featured, but supports in-unit charging).
- Filters outside the lens protection type are not absolutely necessary until you've mastered the basics
- Tripods are complicated, and their utility depends on a lot of factors - what you're taking, your technique, and your camera's features that may make certain benefits of a tripod moot. For myself: the only time I ever bring my tripod out is when I want myself and an entire extended family in the picture.
- Memory card reader may (or may not be) necessary dependent on your computer. A good number of laptops offer built-in SD card slots.

Guys,
Long time I haven't been here. to make long story short, I decided to buy a DSLR after so many years dedicating my life to family affairs. Now I have some free times that I could spare some time for photography. I'm thinking of getting an OMD EM-5 MkII. If you have any thoughts/ alternate recommendations, please let me know.

The current deal I'm looking into is on Qoo10.sg. EM-5 MkII with M.ZUIKO 12-50mm F3.5-6.3 Zoom EZ Len (is that Kit lens?) for $1,371. Would it be a good deal or can I find better deals at the local shops?

Last but not least, please also recommend useful accessories for the camera. Addition to the body and lens, I might need a flash (since EM-5 has no built-in flash), a tripod and some other stuffs that I don't know yet. Pls recommend something that won't break my bank.

Regards,
Spidy

 

[SpiderX]

What makes you settle for the m43, EM5? What homework have you done? We need to see the rationale for your short listing so that we can either confirm your idea or make other suggestions.
The camera is less critical, you need to think about the entire system you will buy in. Key factors could be: costs of equipment without any special deals, availability of components (line up, shops), usability (design, ergonomics, menu) and others. For that, we usually recommend peple to head to the shops and have a touch and feel session with the camera. Because weight and ergonomics will matter most when you use the cameras.
Another point is the difference between optical viewfinder of DSLR and electronic viewfinder for mirrorless. Try them both, see what works best for you.
As additional equipment, the mentioned dry cabinet is a must. On top of that, a basic sensor cleaning kit, a decent camera bag (kit bags don't have much space left), CPL filter, a decent tripod come to my mind.
For tripod selection I recommend you grab a coffee (or whatever else you prefer) and read here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384016 - This will give you some pointers fr the selection. The rest is your preference and budget.

I'm still trying to do the homeworks. Honestly, the latest DSLR I've owned and used is the Sony Alpha A200. So, I'm pretty far away from recent technologies. And don't laugh at me, the main reason I've choose EM5Mk2 is because of its vintage DSLR style and built-in image stabilizer. I've owned a Nikon FM10 previously and I really love how those cameras looks. When I saw EM5MK2, it's love at first sight. So, call me crazy. I'm surely gonna go down to a shop and try it out personally before buying it.

I'm going to use the camera mainly for family group photos and portraits. And maybe some street photographs.

So far, this is my wish list.
1. OM-D EM-5 Mk2
2. A good lens for taking group photos, preferably a fast lens. (maybe a pancake)
3. A good lens for portrait shots.
4. A good tripod.
5. Some UV/ CPL filters
6. A camera/ laptop bag.
7. battery grip
8. a basic sensor/ lens cleaning kit. (I already have some compressed air cans for cleaning my PC)
9. last but not least, a drybox. (Maybe I'm gonna do a makeshift drybox, putting some selica-gel bags into an air-tight plastic container).

 

[SpiderX]

Ah Keong,

thanks for the great advise.

Hi Spidey,

for mirrorless or DSLM,
have you considered the Other Olympus (OM-D E-M1 mark II, OM-D E-M10 mark III, E-PL8, etc)?
EM1 gonna break my budget. I'm considering EM10Mk3 as well. Please let me know if there's any advantages over EM5Mk2.

have you considered Fujifilm? (X-T2, X-Pro2, etc)?
I'm considering X-T2 as well.

have you considered Sony? (a6000, a6300, a6500, a7, etc)?
A lot of people suggested A6000/ A6500. they've got great APS-C sensors. But again, I'm not into the range-finder style, and lacking of built-in stabilizer says nah.

have you considered Canon? (M6, etc)?
Nope. Haven't think about Canon yet.

other things to consider in a solution are lens. Does the system fit your needs?

Lastly, some basic accessories you may need to add like:
a) cleaning kits (blower, wipes, etc)
b) camera bag (backpack, messenger, etc)
c) tripod (aluminum, carbon fiber, twist lock, lever lock, etc)
d) filters (protection, clear, UV, ND, etc)
e) memory card reader
f) memory cards

Yap, i might need a bag, a tripod, some filters, a couple of lens, a good tripod and memory cards. My laptop already has got built-in SD card reader. so I won't need a separate one.

for more info, you would need time to read through the link by Octarine.

Thanks for your lovely EM1Mk2 photo as well.

 

[Wzierbovsky]

IMO.

2. A good lens for taking group photos, preferably a fast lens. (maybe a pancake)
3. A good lens for portrait shots.

Some affordable possibilities are
- Olympus 12-40mm f2.8 that can do 2 well and can passably do 3
- Olympus 45mm f1.8, Panasonic 25mm f1.4, Olympus 25mm f1.8 etc. can all do 3, and won't break the bank

7. battery grip
- I feel the above is not necessary, until you've mastered the basics, or are doing specific types of photography or using heavy lenses.

9. last but not least, a drybox. (Maybe I'm gonna do a makeshift drybox, putting some selica-gel bags into an air-tight plastic container).
- Advise you get a dry cabinet, not dry box. You want the cabinet's hydrometer, and low maintenance.

 

[SpiderX]

Hi Wiz,
Thanks for your great advise.

The E-M5 Mark II is a pretty decent camera - can't go wrong with it. However, the camera is also a few years old now. If you're on a tight budget, do consider the E-M10 Mark III - a newer model that while isn't as premium-built as the E-M5, it's better featured with more recent technology built it, and should be cheaper too. Comparison here:

https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/preview/olympus-omd-em10-ii-vs-omd-em5-ii/
I've read the comparison and found it EM5 is more favorable.

Good chance that shops like TK Foto, SLR Revolution and MS Color will sell it for cheaper too. If you're hesitant about seeking e-quotations or asking in-person, visit TK Foto then since their prices are prominently displayed and usually competitive.
I'll check TK and Cathay.

Do also consider the Panasonic GX85, which can be bought for several hundred dollars cheaper than the E-M5 Mark II.
I'll check it out as well.

Not intending to start a war about different systems here as the following is a personal opinion: the Sony A6000 is a pretty good alternative, and recent discounts have made it a very compelling purchase from a price/value-point of view. But were I in your shoes, I'd give it a miss - I feel that Sony seems to be more invested in their full-frame mirrorless line-up than their E-mount system. This won't matter if you're happy just acquiring a small handful of lenses and no more. But from what you've said, you're looking to seriously learn and spend time in this hobby - which means that at some point, expanding your lens collection might become appealing to you.
A6000 has arguably got a great APS-C sensor but lacking of built-in IS means I need to invest on more expensive IS lens. That makes me run away. For the usage, I'm more into taking my family/ kids portraits and group photos. Not gonna dig into things like big telephoto lens or macro lens. I just want a set of group/ street/ portrait lens. 3 if 2 is not enough.

IMO too - the Fujifilm X system is also a really good alternative to m4/3s, and Fujifilm is really investing in completing their lens line-ups.

About accessories, sharing my own experience:
- Dry cabinet is a must
- A camera bag is also a must
- Flash unit is helpful: apart from the Olympus flash units, good alternatives are the Nissin i40 (compact, powerful and affordably-priced - just that the command dial paint job might fade easily) and the Meike MK320 (even smaller and much cheaper than the i40, slightly less powerful/featured, but supports in-unit charging).
I'll check those out.
- Filters outside the lens protection type are not absolutely necessary until you've mastered the basics
- Tripods are complicated, and their utility depends on a lot of factors - what you're taking, your technique, and your camera's features that may make certain benefits of a tripod moot. For myself: the only time I ever bring my tripod out is when I want myself and an entire extended family in the picture.
- Memory card reader may (or may not be) necessary dependent on your computer. A good number of laptops offer built-in SD card slots.

 

[SpiderX]

Thanks bro.

IMO.

2. A good lens for taking group photos, preferably a fast lens. (maybe a pancake)
3. A good lens for portrait shots.

Some affordable possibilities are
- Olympus 12-40mm f2.8 that can do 2 well and can passably do 3
- Olympus 45mm f1.8, Panasonic 25mm f1.4, Olympus 25mm f1.8 etc. can all do 3, and won't break the bank
Thanks for the great advise. I'll surely try those lens.

7. battery grip
- I feel the above is not necessary, until you've mastered the basics, or are doing specific types of photography or using heavy lenses.
I see. Thanks.

9. last but not least, a drybox. (Maybe I'm gonna do a makeshift drybox, putting some selica-gel bags into an air-tight plastic container).
- Advise you get a dry cabinet, not dry box. You want the cabinet's hydrometer, and low maintenance.
I'll keep it in mind.

 

[Edwin Francis]

9. last but not least, a drybox. (Maybe I'm gonna do a makeshift drybox, putting some selica-gel bags into an air-tight plastic container).

Eh, if you're talking about silica gel packets that come with electronic goods, don't -- they're virtually useless. You can buy a small container of reusable silica gel cheap, but really, a small dry cabinet (maybe $100 new) would be SO much more convenient.

As for cameras, if you're doing the usual amateur stuff (shooting general stuff now and then, travel photos etc) ANY entry level camera on the market would do, and the EM5 mk 2 is mid-level. If you like it, get it, though I would look at the EM10 mk 3 too, as someone suggested.

I've been in the Olympus m43 system for 3 years now, and the biggest peeves I have are the menu system (very UNintuitve, and at the tail end of the major brands) and the control dial issues I have had -- my EP5 and EM1 had to be serviced (parts had to be replaced) for that, though they have been fine since. I also have issues with the battery grip contacts (EM1) though that may be just mine. And of course battery life is a weak point for most mirrorless cams. But I still use it because there are more things that I love.

EVERY brand has strong points and issues, find the one you can live with.

 

[thoongeng]

So far, this is my wish list.
1. OM-D EM-5 Mk2
2. A good lens for taking group photos, preferably a fast lens. (maybe a pancake)
3. A good lens for portrait shots.
4. A good tripod.
5. Some UV/ CPL filters
6. A camera/ laptop bag.
7. battery grip
8. a basic sensor/ lens cleaning kit. (I already have some compressed air cans for cleaning my PC)
9. last but not least, a drybox. (Maybe I'm gonna do a makeshift drybox, putting some selica-gel bags into an air-tight plastic container).

For no.2 if you're anal like me for group shots I want people in the foreground and background to be sharp so you will be using a narrower aperture for a deeper depth of field thus don't need a fast lens for that.

For no.8 please don't use the compressed air to clean your sensor. I read it causes more problems because of the propellant will leave residue on the sensor

 

[Octarine]

I can understand your sentiments about the vintage feel - Got myself a copy of the camera model that my father used to take pics of me as baby. At that time cameras worked pretty well without any battery

1. OM-D EM-5 Mk2
2. A good lens for taking group photos, preferably a fast lens. (maybe a pancake)
3. A good lens for portrait shots.
4. A good tripod.
5. Some UV/ CPL filters
6. A camera/ laptop bag.
7. battery grip
8. a basic sensor/ lens cleaning kit. (I already have some compressed air cans for cleaning my PC)
9. last but not least, a drybox. (Maybe I'm gonna do a makeshift drybox, putting some selica-gel bags into an air-tight plastic container).

In general: Buy when you need it, there is no checklist to complete before taking the first shot.
2/3: Depending on budget and your preferences, a good kit lens can do that. If I'm not wrong, the kit lens is 12-40mm. That should suffice for a start. Have a look at the sample gallery here to see what the kit lens can do: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m5-ii/14 - upper right hand is the lens stated, check for the 12-40mm. For groups shots you don't need wide open aperture, because you want to have everyone in focus (see Depth of Field topic). For portraits use the long end, keep the subject to background distance long enough and you are there.
4: Read about the triangle between 'cheap, light and stable' (you can only pick two): http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384016
5: CPL for landscape is ok. UV is overrated as lens protector and only fills the pockets of over-eager salesman. Optically completely useless, but can become a good source of lens flare. Use a lens hood, instead.
6: The shops are full of Lowepro, Kata, Think Tank etc. Now Peak Design is available in the shops, too (started as crowd-funding campaign in US). Be careful with shoulder bags when fully loaded: the single sided load is no joke for shoulder and neck. To me it's either 'go light' or take a backpack.
7: Nice to have, to me. least priority
8: Get them online, swaps + liquid. Check the video tutorials. Use your canned air for anything else, but not in the vicinity of 2m of your camera.
9: That's the second item on your list of important things to get, right after camera and first lens. Get an electrical dry cabinet and your are done for the next years. Keep 30-50% spare capacity, you will accumulate other stuff.

 

[Ah Keong]

Ah Keong,

thanks for the great advise.

Shoot more! have fun!!

The E-M5 mk II is more weather proof than E-M10 mk III.
If you do not need the more weather proofing, the E-M10 is lighter.

The new grip design of the E-M10 mk III is more handy. you may want to go down to the shops or the Olympus showroom to try out the handling. Of course, you can add handgrip on both models.

The E-M5 mk II has articulating screen which I like compared to the tilting screen of the E-M10 mk III.

The E-M10 mk III has more AF points and cover more area than the E-M5 mk II (120+ vs 80+)

The E-M5 mk II has a faster mechanical shutter than the E-M10 mk III (1/8000 vs 1/4000)

The E-M5 mk II has a better IBIS than the E-M10 mk III

The E-M10 mk III is more affordable.

Do also consider Fujifilm X-T2. ;p

 

[SpiderX]

thoongeng

For no.2 if you're anal like me for group shots I want people in the foreground and background to be sharp so you will be using a narrower aperture for a deeper depth of field thus don't need a fast lens for that.

I'm thinking more about indoor group photos where light is not as good as outdoor and taking photos in narrow space where wide lens are essential.

For no.8 please don't use the compressed air to clean your sensor. I read it causes more problems because of the propellant will leave residue on the sensor
Noted and thanks. I'll keep it away from the camera.

 

[SpiderX]

Hi Edwin

Eh, if you're talking about silica gel packets that come with electronic goods, don't -- they're virtually useless. You can buy a small container of reusable silica gel cheap, but really, a small dry cabinet (maybe $100 new) would be SO much more convenient.

Yap. I'm thinking of either reusable silica gel packs (or that comes with large bottles) or those dehumidifier boxes that i can use and throwaway. What I'm afraid is that my kids might do something to break the glass windows of the dry cabinet. I'll check if there are some dry-boxes without glass windows.

As for cameras, if you're doing the usual amateur stuff (shooting general stuff now and then, travel photos etc) ANY entry level camera on the market would do, and the EM5 mk 2 is mid-level. If you like it, get it, though I would look at the EM10 mk 3 too, as someone suggested.
Yes, I like it. for EM-10, I don't like it much even though it's newer.

I've been in the Olympus m43 system for 3 years now, and the biggest peeves I have are the menu system (very UNintuitve, and at the tail end of the major brands) and the control dial issues I have had -- my EP5 and EM1 had to be serviced (parts had to be replaced) for that, though they have been fine since. I also have issues with the battery grip contacts (EM1) though that may be just mine. And of course battery life is a weak point for most mirrorless cams. But I still use it because there are more things that I love.
I'll take note of the advise as well.

EVERY brand has strong points and issues, find the one you can live with.

 

[SpiderX]

Octarine

I can understand your sentiments about the vintage feel - Got myself a copy of the camera model that my father used to take pics of me as baby. At that time cameras worked pretty well without any battery

Yes. My FM10 only needs a small cell-battery for EV meter. And without even that battery, it still works (but U need go guess the exposure value according to the light condition).


In general: Buy when you need it, there is no checklist to complete before taking the first shot.
Noted.

2/3: Depending on budget and your preferences, a good kit lens can do that. If I'm not wrong, the kit lens is 12-40mm. That should suffice for a start. Have a look at the sample gallery here to see what the kit lens can do: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m5-ii/14 - upper right hand is the lens stated, check for the 12-40mm. For groups shots you don't need wide open aperture, because you want to have everyone in focus (see Depth of Field topic). For portraits use the long end, keep the subject to background distance long enough and you are there.
How's about indoor group photos where u need to fit in large group of people but u can't back far away becoz the room is just 6 meters wide kind of situation? I might face that a lot.

4: Read about the triangle between 'cheap, light and stable' (you can only pick two): http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384016
Noted. I'll check it out.
5: CPL for landscape is ok. UV is overrated as lens protector and only fills the pockets of over-eager salesman. Optically completely useless, but can become a good source of lens flare. Use a lens hood, instead.
Noted. A hood will be a must.

6: The shops are full of Lowepro, Kata, Think Tank etc. Now Peak Design is available in the shops, too (started as crowd-funding campaign in US). Be careful with shoulder bags when fully loaded: the single sided load is no joke for shoulder and neck. To me it's either 'go light' or take a backpack.
I'm more on go-light situation. the body + one extra lens + extra battery (and maybe a tripod). That's all. I won't buy those heavy tele-photo lens or very heavy tripods.

7: Nice to have, to me. least priority
This one is for extended battery life. I can either get it or just have an extra-battery.
8: Get them online, swaps + liquid. Check the video tutorials. Use your canned air for anything else, but not in the vicinity of 2m of your camera.
Noted.
9: That's the second item on your list of important things to get, right after camera and first lens. Get an electrical dry cabinet and your are done for the next years. Keep 30-50% spare capacity, you will accumulate other stuff.
Noted. Just now I saw B&N is selling 30mm f/3.5 Macro Lens with $200 off. I'm really itchy to order. (But it's a big fat chance that I won't take more than 20 shots with that lens).

 

[SpiderX]

Ah Keong,

Shoot more! have fun!!

The E-M5 mk II is more weather proof than E-M10 mk III.
If you do not need the more weather proofing, the E-M10 is lighter.
I actually preferred the magnesium-alloy body of EM-5 over the plastic and metal body of E-M10. That's one of the deciding factor that I don't prefer E-M10.

The new grip design of the E-M10 mk III is more handy. you may want to go down to the shops or the Olympus showroom to try out the handling. Of course, you can add handgrip on both models.

The E-M5 mk II has articulating screen which I like compared to the tilting screen of the E-M10 mk III.
Yes, I preferred the articulating screen.

The E-M10 mk III has more AF points and cover more area than the E-M5 mk II (120+ vs 80+)
How does it compares in real-life situations? I can't find much of the comparison in reviews.

The E-M5 mk II has a faster mechanical shutter than the E-M10 mk III (1/8000 vs 1/4000)
Again, I'm not sure if those shutter speeds would do much effect. (Unless I'm trying to shoot a hummingbird)

The E-M5 mk II has a better IBIS than the E-M10 mk III
That what I really need.

The E-M10 mk III is more affordable.
Might consider if the bundle price for EM-5 is way too higher than my budget. Currently, I think it's still affordable.

Do also consider Fujifilm X-T2. ;p
I'm actually thinking of X-A3 if I can't get an EM-5. Please give me a quick review if u've tried one.

 

[SpiderX]

I saw there are few posts in the marketplace people selling EM5Mk2 with reasonable prices. Some are with low shutter-count. Like +3K counts only. Should I buy one of these or should I just go to a shop and buy a new one?