ND Filter


mikeeeey

New Member
Jan 27, 2010
321
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0
#1
I really have to apologise for creating a thread to ask this. Im very new to filters and this issue had been bugging me for 4hrs (thats very long cos i dont like unexplained stuff)

just bought a ND8 filter. Looks very dark when you just look at it like that. But upon mounting to the camera, the outcome looks like theres no ND filter at all. How can that be? I am sure that theres some logic behind it.

And im sure that this is the way its supposed to be. Cos I tried shooting normally with and without filter, no difference. But as soon as I increase the exposure, (slow the shutter), I get distinct difference. One is overexpose the other just nice. That's the way its supposed to be and I love it. But I just dont get it how come when you shoot normally at 1/60 for example, thats no significant difference at all when the filter is soooo dark.
 

Diavonex

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2008
3,641
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0
Admiralty
#2
The other thing you can do is keep your Speed and ISO constant and check your aperture with and without the ND filter.
 

mikeeeey

New Member
Jan 27, 2010
321
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0
#3
Gosh this is so embarassing.

Just tried. now theres a difference.

Thats so wierd, cos just now i tried when i was in the car, the with and without filter doesnt seem to have any difference unless i slow the shutter to 5secs or so..

now its very obvious even at 1/4 secs...

sorry for creating another useless thread. my apologies.

and thanks diavonex for the info. :D
 

night86mare

Deregistered
Aug 25, 2006
25,541
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#4
I really have to apologise for creating a thread to ask this. Im very new to filters and this issue had been bugging me for 4hrs (thats very long cos i dont like unexplained stuff)

just bought a ND8 filter. Looks very dark when you just look at it like that. But upon mounting to the camera, the outcome looks like theres no ND filter at all. How can that be? I am sure that theres some logic behind it.

And im sure that this is the way its supposed to be. Cos I tried shooting normally with and without filter, no difference. But as soon as I increase the exposure, (slow the shutter), I get distinct difference. One is overexpose the other just nice. That's the way its supposed to be and I love it. But I just dont get it how come when you shoot normally at 1/60 for example, thats no significant difference at all when the filter is soooo dark.
mikeeeey, i don't know what you were doing when you posted this, but if you are doing things like keeping iso constant, shutter speed constant, but aperture changes, then nd8 will not have much visible effect other than shallower dof at a relatively fast shutter speed.

nd8 reduces the amount of light going through the lens and hitting the sensor. it has many uses, such as introducing motion into a picture, when shutter speeds are too fast for what you want to achieve. that is the most prominent usage of a nd filter.

another use may be what you have done that results in "no visible difference" claimed (other than dof, which may not be immediately obvious for wide focal lengths).. which is to shoot portraits in bright light with shallow dof. without an nd filter, if you shoot at f/1.4 in broad daylight you might not be able to attain a maximum shutter speed that gives you a properly exposed photo and end up with overexposure.

my suggestion is, if you want to use nd filter, the best way to go about doing it is use manual. select something with motion, e.g. water and the sea. shoot with constant iso AND aperture. with the nd8, the shutter speed should be 3 stops SLOWER than without. you should be able to see a difference unless there is a lot of light. hope this helps.
 

mikeeeey

New Member
Jan 27, 2010
321
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#5
thanks night86mare. i was too eager to try it out in the car just now while waiting for my gf. so most prob either the aperture or iso changes and i didnt notice that.

and now in a more soothing environment, managed to sit down and go thru the details again and i finally see how it really works.

sorry for the inconvenience caused
 

night86mare

Deregistered
Aug 25, 2006
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#6
thanks night86mare. i was too eager to try it out in the car just now while waiting for my gf. so most prob either the aperture or iso changes and i didnt notice that.

and now in a more soothing environment, managed to sit down and go thru the details again and i finally see how it really works.

sorry for the inconvenience caused
no problem, have fun with your nd filter.

try it at post-sunset timings, will make for very nice water, if there is water where you are.
 

mikeeeey

New Member
Jan 27, 2010
321
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0
#7
thanks for the advise. will definitely try it out if there's chance... thanks!
 

ahqiang

New Member
Sep 13, 2009
81
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0
West
#8
Hi all experts out there,

Need some advice on a ND filter. (Hi Mikeeeey, hope you don't mind me using your thread to post more questions)

I wanted to get a ND filter lately but don't know which brand and which stop to go for.

Basically all i want is to achieve those kind of silky and smooth water effect on sea. But was confused on how dark on the filter should i get.

Is it true that the darker it is, the smoother it will be?

Please advise.

Thanks a million.
 

night86mare

Deregistered
Aug 25, 2006
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#9
Is it true that the darker it is, the smoother it will be?

Please advise.

Thanks a million.
you have to visualise how it is, there are water conditions as well, along with wind conditions.

i wrote a post on it before, obviously with extremely long exposures there *is* a higher chance of smoothed out water, but it is not necessarily so.

there are things such as currents which will affect the result - for example, if you have a body of water with one part still, the other part moving, then even if you expose it for 30 minutes and conditions do not change.. you will not get something uniform per se:

http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/109403801

if the water is still like in reservoirs when there is no wind, (because no current), then doesn't matter, you don't really need nd filters, stopping down at lowest iso will do:

http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/116336887

with a bit more wind you might still get reflections, but murky-ish ones:

http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/111027904

with strong, powerful waves, long exposures will yield no real reflection, in some cases you might get whited-out water:

http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/117141768
http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/99277964

the distance of the water from you also plays a role.

there is no hard and fast rule, but to attain maximum efficiency, experience will give you a rough idea of how long you need to "smooth out" the water to your liking.

it is also not always a must to have "misty waters". there are loads of great beach photos which use shutter speeds below a second to great effect by means of wave motion.

hope this helps.
 

ahqiang

New Member
Sep 13, 2009
81
0
0
West
#10
you have to visualise how it is, there are water conditions as well, along with wind conditions.

i wrote a post on it before, obviously with extremely long exposures there *is* a higher chance of smoothed out water, but it is not necessarily so.

there are things such as currents which will affect the result - for example, if you have a body of water with one part still, the other part moving, then even if you expose it for 30 minutes and conditions do not change.. you will not get something uniform per se:

http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/109403801

if the water is still like in reservoirs when there is no wind, (because no current), then doesn't matter, you don't really need nd filters, stopping down at lowest iso will do:

http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/116336887

with a bit more wind you might still get reflections, but murky-ish ones:

http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/111027904

with strong, powerful waves, long exposures will yield no real reflection, in some cases you might get whited-out water:

http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/117141768
http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/99277964

the distance of the water from you also plays a role.

there is no hard and fast rule, but to attain maximum efficiency, experience will give you a rough idea of how long you need to "smooth out" the water to your liking.

it is also not always a must to have "misty waters". there are loads of great beach photos which use shutter speeds below a second to great effect by means of wave motion.

hope this helps.
Hi night86mare,

thanks for your info. I really appreciated your effort for showing me the various conditions.
so what would you recommend for a start? I have tried long exposure (w/o ND filter) but the effect is still not as ideal. (maybe the condition / camera setting is not ideal in the first place).

I kind of read it before that ND2 will be a reasonable one for a start. But worried that it might be too subtle to see any effect.

What brand would u recommend? is B+W ND filter good?

Thanks.
 

sfoto100

Senior Member
Nov 29, 2009
2,092
0
36
#11
Hi night86mare,

thanks for your info. I really appreciated your effort for showing me the various conditions.
so what would you recommend for a start? I have tried long exposure (w/o ND filter) but the effect is still not as ideal. (maybe the condition / camera setting is not ideal in the first place).

I kind of read it before that ND2 will be a reasonable one for a start. But worried that it might be too subtle to see any effect.

What brand would u recommend? is B+W ND filter good?

Thanks.

how many stops do u need? if 10 stops then b+w or hoya lor.. i am also considering them..

if just 1,2, or 3 stops, u have a cheap alternative.. tianya... whether they are good or not i am not sure lah....

or u can buy cokin...
 

Jan 16, 2009
898
0
0
#12
night86mare, can you get similar effect as ND filters by using multiple exposures? I know your K20D has multiple exposure feature that will average out mutliple exposures taken, have you tried that before?
 

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