Howard Shaw among 4 more men charged over sex with underage girl
The old Chinese saying: "The character of lust has a knife hanging on the top."
The old Chinese saying: "The character of lust has a knife hanging on the top."
Naughty naugthy...
- Thread starter UncleFai
- Start date
all the people accused and the girl just say they just pay to photoshoot with a young girl in the room what can the law do ? nothing
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LOL... after this statement i foresee many virile old men buying DSLRs and booking private hotel rooms for private photoshoots :bsmilie:
When the AG office press charges, we can be sure they have sufficient evidence, testimonies or confessions to secure a conviction. That they can identify all these men & the pimp means they have been monitoring the prostitution ring, which is like organised crime, for some time. Dont think the accused men can get away else the AG will be all red faced with nowhere to hide it, esp since some of the accused are prominent, rich & powerful people. Top defence lawyers or not, this is Singapore, & I think the law against sex with minors will stick.
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I am very perplexed by this case and the laws.
The one that got away
40+ clients and a pimp(I assume all are men?) have gotten into hot soup for a paid rendezvous with "minor". They have all been shamed before even proven guilty. So, no matter the verdict, they have been punished. At the same time, there is a gag order to protect the identity of the minor. Am I the only one to see that we are overly eager to judge men, while being too protective of the fairer gender?
When do I grow up?
The age of majority in Singapore is 21years.
By age 12 my daughter has to pay adult fare; by 16.5 my son can kill for his country, by 18 both my children can buy cigarettes. BUT.... only at 21, can they vote for their government and watch naked bodies in the cinemas. The logic is flawed? Yes, the law deems that the case involves a minor but is it right that 21years is the age of majority?
Who can judge me?
I am afraid that we judge the guys morally rather than judicially.
Question: What is their moral crime?
1)Paying for sex?
2)Paying for sex with a minor?
3)Paying for sex with a minor with stil being married? (some of them)
4)Paying for sex while being a civil servant?
Which of these 4 is the worst? any more to add?
The one that got away
40+ clients and a pimp(I assume all are men?) have gotten into hot soup for a paid rendezvous with "minor". They have all been shamed before even proven guilty. So, no matter the verdict, they have been punished. At the same time, there is a gag order to protect the identity of the minor. Am I the only one to see that we are overly eager to judge men, while being too protective of the fairer gender?
When do I grow up?
The age of majority in Singapore is 21years.
By age 12 my daughter has to pay adult fare; by 16.5 my son can kill for his country, by 18 both my children can buy cigarettes. BUT.... only at 21, can they vote for their government and watch naked bodies in the cinemas. The logic is flawed? Yes, the law deems that the case involves a minor but is it right that 21years is the age of majority?
Who can judge me?
I am afraid that we judge the guys morally rather than judicially.
Question: What is their moral crime?
1)Paying for sex?
2)Paying for sex with a minor?
3)Paying for sex with a minor with stil being married? (some of them)
4)Paying for sex while being a civil servant?
Which of these 4 is the worst? any more to add?
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Their name inside the pimp's database including how much they paid for sex.
Even if they have pro-gears also cannot help them.
These guys are caught because the pimp maintain a web site with database of all his clients.
All the names, phone numbers and how much they paid and where they have their "service" in database.
The police must be happy that the pimp is so good in IT that it reduce the work for them.
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In cases like this the men are always going to be receiving the short end of the stick.
We can't police nor judge based on morality, else we're like Iran.
Well.. that may be. But the law which they operate on should be ultimately based on morality.
The only question is which one.
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He is a poor victim too. Hope his marriage will survive this.
Please... he is not a victim... if the accusation is true.. even if he didn't know her age, it makes him a cheater at best.
Teenager's trysts with 44 alleged clients revealed
Lawyer Subhas Anandan says all his clients are victims.
But in Singapore and in many other country law is a law! Although e victim dont know if she is minor, its e victim fault. I dont know how e lawyer can turn this things around...
There has been many cases which is similar. In e end all e guys go to jail and e girl (who provided e service) is not in jail.
There has been many cases which is similar. In e end all e guys go to jail and e girl (who provided e service) is not in jail.
This is a complex issue and involves different sets of moral and legal premises.The woman's charter was the brainchild of mrs.LKY as mentioned in ex.MM mr.LKY memoirs.At that time and in asian and patriachcal societies
women have no means of economic support (similar to western societies but more severe because of cultural taboos) other than their "good" husbands.Mrs. LKY being a western trained lawyer sought to protect and accord fair distribution of a married couples assets should they divorce based on western english law.Even till today as in other minority races because of cultural practices these women have the short end of the bargain/stick should a marriage fail or turn sour.Of course there are the gold diggers (marrying men for money) but that's a men's problem.
Now comes the morality law known as "sex with minors" ,obviously it has the protection of young children and adolescents of both sexes in mind.To prevent abuse and exploitation by amoral persons.Under the rape
catagory it is termed as statutory rape even if the minor consented at below 16yrs. and accused cannot use the excuse that he did not know or was lied to by minor.Next comes at 18yrs. and below,it is known as carnal knowlege
and the conditions of consent and ignorance apply.If the victim is 21yrs. and over it is full blown rape and the full extent of the law is applied to set an example to deter potential offenders ,public shame,jail and the dreaded "rotan" or caning are the consequences.
Because here government scrap trial by jury because if the accused is wealthy a competent lawyer can easily cast aspersions or doubts on victims and get accused aqquited because it is based on victim's onus to prove that accused actually commited crime by providing proof like bodily injuries and physical evidence like virginity test and semen left at "scene of crime" in this case on or in victim with official medical proof.
So now at present the onus of proof is shifted to the accused by providing alibies like not at crime scene or wrong person at wrong time or did not know the victim and testimony of "reliable persons or aquaintances like friends or family". So technically it is easy to cry rape by a vengeful girl or woman.Reputations and character of innocent men
could be destroyed.So guys think twice if you think you can do a casanova type stunt here.Notice that nowadays
rape accusations are rarely reported by mainstream papers,I think this is a deliberate policy because from what I can recall in the 70s and 80s there were a spate of "cry rape" cases and also it would increase our women's anxieties and perhaps of the sexual revolution taking place in western countries where women were freed from the
burden of pregnancy with the introduction of the contraceptive pill thus allowing women to turn tables on men.HaHa."Woman hear me roar" sings Helen Reddy the war anthem of feminists.
Another interesting quirk of our local laws based on british one is the public obcene exhibition law if a man walks
past an open window and sees a woman undressing/changing clothes he can be accused of peeping.Vice versa
if a woman walks past a window and sees a man undressing ,the man can be accused of commiting an obscene
act!
Of course some may know that the oral sex law was abolished between consenting homosexuals and married couples but it is still an offence if done in public.Remember the water bottle story at changi beach?
Finally we come back to our present case,yeah prominent personalities are involved,they are human but I am not
condoning or excusing their behaviour.They should exercise better judgement and know the law and the stupidity
they think they can get away in the internet age.Everything is logged your IP address,credit card transactions
etc. (Mod: comments removed ; no religious insinuations please, thank you)
For the masterminds or pimps they know that minors will be let off with only warning of gentle slap of the wrist
and so use this to entice naive and materialistic girls to be partners in crime.Unfortunately this is the real world.
Although the laws here are draconian alot of the sleeze goes underground so the police depend on tipoffs and
monitoring the search engines for key words like "barely legal"or similar descriptions.The profit is huge and there
is a thriving money laundering "industry" here thanks to our "transparent" banking sector.For the accused men,an expensive lesson.They are losers in some ways as they don't have the guts to be a PUA (pick up artist) who have a code of ethics that say to leave women better off when they met them ,a hard ideal to accomplish because ego,pride,feelings and love and honesty and being human are incompatable bedfellows.Pardon the pun.
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