more monitor calibration questions

[pro_FHM]

hi all,
i've been reading up on color management & monitor calibration all over the net.
now a bit the confused with questions all over my head.

1) I'm using a laptop to edit photos (i know it's not the best esp compared to monitors, but laptop portable), i noticed that when u tilt the screen slightly fwd/ backwds, or if u sit higher/ lower, the brightness/ details change.
is there any standard way of viewing to minimise error?

2) i noted there are 2 versions of eye one 2 display: pantone eyeone display 2 & original gretagmacbeth eyeone display 2.
are both versions still being sold? price of each?
i read the northlight review but doesn't say much in the diff btw the two. any other differences?

3) spyder3 pro or elite seems to draw many negative reviews as compared to eyeone2. is this the general feel here with clubsnappers? any latest updates on price difference?

4) any compatibility issues for both spyder & eyeone with windows vista?

5) i noted eyeone2 can calibrate cameras. does anyone actually calibrate his dSLR?? what does it mean?

6) so after u calibrated ur monitor & u edit ur photos happily & u bring it to the shop for printing, do u need to provide them any info?
can't simply say my monitor is calibrated, right?
also, if the printer doesn't calibrate with the same software as urs, wouldn't ur colors not turn out right?

7) wrt color temp (white pt), i know there are diff schools of thought: standard 5K, newer generation like to use 6.5K, some even advocate 5.5-5.8K because it simulates midday lighting, others recommend leaving it as "native" (settings of the monitor/ laptop).
if i'm using laptop, would u recommend i leave it as native? any pros/ cons?

8) after calibration with the hardware, do i need to go open photoshop software to edit any settings? how about windows viewer? will a photo look the same when i open it in photoshop vs that on windows viewer? (vista)

9) can i easily revert back to normal settings of my LCD screen? because i understand after calibration, it usually gets dimmer. prefer a brighter screen when surfing net.

will not ask the 10th qn, cos i think too many questions liao. ;p
will deeply appreciate any answers, for someone new in this field.
thanks in advance.

 

[YogiBear]

Do read up on Color Management by Datacolor or X-Rite to sufficiently equip yourself. Pls find my answers in green below. Will let others answer those which I've left out...

1) I'm using a laptop to edit photos (i know it's not the best esp compared to monitors, but laptop portable), i noticed that when u tilt the screen slightly fwd/ backwds, or if u sit higher/ lower, the brightness/ details change.
is there any standard way of viewing to minimise error?

You cant be wrong if you view your Laptop screen straight on. Position your head (not your eyes) facing the center of your screen.

2) i noted there are 2 versions of eye one 2 display: pantone eyeone display 2 & original gretagmacbeth eyeone display 2.
are both versions still being sold? price of each?
i read the northlight review but doesn't say much in the diff btw the two. any other differences?

i1Display2 is currently own by X-Rite but was previously under Gretag Macbeth. Pantone is a major color management distribution partner and so got rights to market under their own name. Both products are the same and they use the same software. Pricing may vary so pls check before making any purchasing commitment. Try checking under Amazon. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

3) spyder3 pro or elite seems to draw many negative reviews as compared to eyeone2. is this the general feel here with clubsnappers? any latest updates on price difference?

Reviews show Spyder3 as an excellent improvement over its past products. Spyder3 is quite new whereas i1Display2 has been around for quite some time already. I have personally used all 3 generations of Spyder (1/2/3), i1Display (1/2) and Monaco Optix. I find them unique in their own ways.

4) any compatibility issues for both spyder & eyeone with windows vista?

I dont use Vista. Pls read their FAQs or Support sections for more info: Spyder3 i1

5) i noted eyeone2 can calibrate cameras. does anyone actually calibrate his dSLR?? what does it mean?

i1Display2 only calibrates displays. Calibration of camera LCD screens is thru software. Think you have to buy additional software for this purpose.

6) so after u calibrated ur monitor & u edit ur photos happily & u bring it to the shop for printing, do u need to provide them any info?
can't simply say my monitor is calibrated, right?
also, if the printer doesn't calibrate with the same software as urs, wouldn't ur colors not turn out right?

Make sure you send your files to be printed to the lab that practises color management. There's just a handful. Tell them not to make further adjustments to your photos cause you've done them. Try some prints first. If you're happy with the results, print more.

7) wrt color temp (white pt), i know there are diff schools of thought: standard 5K, newer generation like to use 6.5K, some even advocate 5.5-5.8K because it simulates midday lighting, others recommend leaving it as "native" (settings of the monitor/ laptop).
if i'm using laptop, would u recommend i leave it as native? any pros/ cons?

If you're editing your photos for pre-press printing, use 5000K. Otherwise choose somewhere between 5500K to 6500K. 5800K is color temperature for flashlight.

8) after calibration with the hardware, do i need to go open photoshop software to edit any settings? how about windows viewer? will a photo look the same when i open it in photoshop vs that on windows viewer? (vista)

If you are using Firefox 3, there's a setting you can do to make your browser color managed. The method is described somewhere on this section.

9) can i easily revert back to normal settings of my LCD screen? because i understand after calibration, it usually gets dimmer. prefer a brighter screen when surfing net.

You will have to recalibrate if you revert back to normal settings. Calibration involves Brightness, Contrast, and your R/G/Bs. Dont touch these buttons or dials after calibration. My past calibrations usually result in brighter screens. Never heard of dimmer results.

 

[lennyl]

I only have a couple of answers for you, I'm far from an expert in color management.

5) You can get profiles made for your DSLR. Not all cameras (sensors) interpret colors the same way and there may even be variations between different batches of sensors. This involves taking a photo of a color chart under very controlled circumstances (read : studio with excellent lights) and using the results to build a color profile. This is used in a raw processor (e.g. CaptureOne) to calibrate the DSLR. I'm not sure how you can use a normal calibrator to do this. I'm also not sure how you can calibrate the camera's LCD if that is what you are asking about.

8) If you are running CS2, disable Adobe Gamma. The other thing you need to do is decide which color space you're going to use. Many people suggest using AdobeRGB without fully understanding what it means. Do consider that many photo processing outlets and most web users cannot view AdobeRGB accurately. Of course, many users' monitors are not going to be calibrated accurately as well, but Adobe RGB usually looks very flat on most web browsers. Even on FF3 you need to enable color management - it is turned off by default.

I do not know how to answer your question 6. I've seen print shops that provide color profiles for their printers, but I do not know how to use them. Theoretically, they should calibrate their printer to a standard, the same standard you calibrate your monitor to. After your monitor is calibrated, and you adjust your images on the monitor, your colors should be accurate. It is now their job to print your accurate colors accurately. Life's never that easy, of course.

I use Spyder 2 Pro on my dual Dell 2001FP (S/IPS). Result has been pretty good.

 

[pro_FHM]

thanks yogibear & lennyl for ur patience in reading my qns
fully appreciate ur answers.

still looking forward to more answers from the rest of the clubsnappers.
thanks in advance.

 

[Prismatic]

The colour profiles provided by the print shops can be used to do a softproof in Photoshop. Meaning you can load the colour profile in Photoshop and see how the prints will roughly look like. This is provided that you have calibrated your monitor properly. This is found under
View > Proof Setup

 

[lennyl]

The colour profiles provided by the print shops can be used to do a softproof in Photoshop. Meaning you can load the colour profile in Photoshop and see how the prints will roughly look like. This is provided that you have calibrated your monitor properly. This is found under
View > Proof Setup

I see, that makes perfect sense. Thank you!

 

[pro_FHM]

thanks!

 

[pro_FHM]

any more takers?

 

[pro_FHM]

hi,

i've just tried calibrating my laptop display with spyder3pro,

now i open up my CS2,

went to > edit > color settings > working spaces > RGB --> do i switch it to monitor RGB ? or do i leave it as sRGB IEC61966-2.1 ?

cos i realise if i put as monitor RGB, everytime i open a previous photo, there will be an embedded profile mismatch, asking me if i want to use the embedded profile, covert the document color to the working space, or don't color manage

so everytime i save an image, which option do i choose?

thanks.

 

[lennyl]

went to > edit > color settings > working spaces > RGB --> do i switch it to monitor RGB ? or do i leave it as sRGB IEC61966-2.1 ?

If I understand this correctly (everytime I think I understand it, someone manage to confuse me), your working space is sRGB or Adobe RGB (your preference here - I prefer sRGB since I post most of mine on the web, and the online printers I use don't like Adobe RGB). You do not load your monitor profile into Photoshop as your working space.

 

[Alliance]

If I understand this correctly (everytime I think I understand it, someone manage to confuse me), your working space is sRGB or Adobe RGB (your preference here - I prefer sRGB since I post most of mine on the web, and the online printers I use don't like Adobe RGB). You do not load your monitor profile into Photoshop as your working space.

The Adobe Photoshop CS3 Book for Digital Photographers by Scot Kelby devotes a whole chapter on this topic and how to set up your system for it. And he explains it in a simple to understand way. Its not the only one as I am sure many of the other books cover this subject too but I found this one particularly simple to undestand. Get the book, it may help to reduce your confusion - a not uncommon state most people new to the subject of color calibration find themselves in.

 

[pro_FHM]

thx lennyl. i think u're right. i read something like that but got myself confused too.
i think i'll go & find the book alliance recommended. thx alliance !

 

[Alliance]

thx lennyl. i think u're right. i read something like that but got myself confused too.
i think i'll go & find the book alliance recommended. thx alliance !

If your target is printing photographs, I'd suggest the following:

1. Set your camera's color space to AdobeRGB.

2. Create a monitor profile using whatever profiling gear you have eg. Colorvision and set your monitor to use the profile. For the Mac, this is done at System Preferences/displays/ dialogue box. Select the monitor profile you created if it not already selected. On a PC guess you have to select the printer driver or similar. Sorry I can't be more precise because I don't use a PC.

3. Go to Photoshop Edit/Color Setting. Select North America Prepress 2. The Color Management for RGB, CMYK and Gray should already be set to Preserve Embedded Profiles. Make sure that the Use Blackpoint Compensation is selected. Set Intent to Perceptual or Relative Colorrimetric (whichever produces photographs you prefer).

4. Create the printer profile for the printer and paper you intend to use using whichever print profiling hardware you have or download the profile from the web (Printer company or the print paper manufacturer's website).

5. In Photoshop, in View/Proof Setup, select the Printer profile you created from the list. Select View/Proof Colors.

6. Open a photograph. Select File/Print. In the print dialogue select Photoshop Manages Colors. Select the printer profile that you had created. Set Rendering Intent to either Perceptual or Relative Colorimetric. Make sure that the Blackpoint compensation checkbox is selected. Then hit Print.

Thats all you have to do.

 

[lennyl]

The Adobe Photoshop CS3 Book for Digital Photographers by Scot Kelby devotes a whole chapter on this topic and how to set up your system for it. And he explains it in a simple to understand way. Its not the only one as I am sure many of the other books cover this subject too but I found this one particularly simple to undestand. Get the book, it may help to reduce your confusion - a not uncommon state most people new to the subject of color calibration find themselves in.

I have the book before this edition (for CS2) actually and I did read through it. His approach (which works well, let me add) is "do this, then this, then this" but doesn't explain why (he did say why he doesn't - that it would take way too long and out of the scope of the book).

It is posts by some other people (can't remember who, not in CS in any case) that throws in a lot of theory (not necessarily correct ones, as it later turned out) that confuse the heck out of me.

Regarding the book, I think it is a great book, but I wish he would cut back on the humor a little. Definitely not the last book on Photoshop anyone needs, though - layers is not very well covered.

Color management can be extremely complicated. I'm at the point where I know enough to get what I need done. I haven't figured out, for example, why high end monitors have their own LUT, when the graphics card already has its own LUT. But I'm not going to drop a couple of grand on a professional LCD backlit 20" monitor so that's fine. I've read about calibrating printers and printer / paper profiles, but never tried doing that on my own - I send my photos out to be printed, and Prismatic (thank you!) has recently educated me on how to use printer profiles in Photoshop. I've read about creating a custom profile for a camera, but I'm not at the point where I think it would improve my images all that much over the standard profiles included with Phase One C1 or Adobe Lightroom. Some day in my free time (hah!) I'd like to study the whole subject in great detail so that I can bore the heck out of anyone I meet with knowledge they don't need or want, but in the meantime I'd rather be taking photos

 

[Alliance]

I am okay with his style of writing, it helps to break the monotony. But I guess it may not be to everyone's taste. Still, his book takes a no nonsense approach which I like because I often don't want to know the reason for this and that, I just want to achieve the results. I have a few other books who cover essentially the same topics but in my opinion they spend way too much time explaining the theory and whyfors so much so that I just end up being confused.

From my experience so far with the few printers I've used, the printer profiles provided by the manufacturer can often be quite a bit off. I eventually gave up and bought a print profiler and its been happy days ever since.