MO - Whats the intention behind it?


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jeffgoh

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Jul 22, 2002
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#1
Good Day All,

Recently I heard of very strange happenings in ClubSNAP in regard to the MO being organised.

General rules of the thumb
1) MO is organised to help fellow CSers to clinch the best deal
2) MO is carried out under individual free will
3) MO is beneficial to all CSers
4) MO is for like-minded people to participate in

I realise that there are people who make it a point to damage or stop MO organised by others in order to protect their own vested interest. What is going on here?

Guys, lets hear your opinion on this matter.

My take is very simple,

1) There should not be any reason why anyone who is able to provide a better deal not to share with others on their own accord and selfishlessly.
2) It is based on own free will. Anyone who thinks it is a good MO and would like to participate or organise, should not be subjected to flame either through the thread or PM.
3) This is a normal willing buyer willling seller's world, a MO will not be successful if there are no willing buyers.
4) As long as the terms and condition of the MO are being spelt out clearly, it is up to the buyers to make the decision not cause of hidden reasons.

On this note, I would like to ask the admin and mods in CS to look into this matter as this is truely a grey area which may potentially upset fellow CSers' will to share good deals.

Yes, I have heard and seen an unfair cancellation of a MO just 'cause there are people with hidden agendas stopping others from organising MO. :bsmilie: To me, this is a selfish evil act which at the end of the day, just put the purpose of MO to shame.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 

benedium

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Jun 19, 2004
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#2
Well said jeffgoh!!!

Totally agree with you. I know the world and people aren't perfect. But it's sad when those who usually 'appear' so righteous and helpful are the very ones stopping others from doing other helpful things.

What is done is done i guess... but i hope my fellow members of clubsnap can open their eyes to the truth and not be blinded by those who abuse the power of influence over them.
 

togu

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Jul 11, 2002
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#3
Yes, it's a very sad thing. :think:

Perhaps it's time CS should charged some administrative fees for conducting MO, esp if any MO starter's intention is to make money, only.

:devil:
 

Jun 29, 2003
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#4
jeffgoh said:
...
Yes, I have heard and seen an unfair cancellation of a MO just 'cause there are people with hidden agendas stopping others from organising MO. :bsmilie: To me, this is a selfish evil act which at the end of the day, just put the purpose of MO to shame.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Selfish evil act? That's an understatement. I have seen some threatening the MO starter like,

"I'll make sure your stocks NEVER come into SG."

To be frank, till date, I'm still puzzled about this statement, and would really like to see how can a dunno-who able to stop someone's stock from coming to SG. Or did I undersestimate the power of the dark side, the dunno-what council?

Such behaviour is definitely not acceptable here.

:rolleyes:

Just my 0.2 cents.
 

Bluestrike

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Jan 17, 2002
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#5
Stylus C34 said:
Selfish evil act? That's an understatement. I have seen some threatening the MO starter like,

"I'll make sure your stocks NEVER come into SG."


Such behaviour is definitely not acceptable here.

:rolleyes:

Just my 0.2 cents.
WAH!!!

So serious meh? Someone actually said all this thigns???
Very interesting. HMMMMMmmmm//.....
 

hongsien

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#6
The only time I remembered an MO being asked to stop was due to the fact that Clubsnap was also selling the same product (I think it was Markins ballheads).

Although most members and the MO starter didn't realise this: Clubsnap and Eastgear share some common grounds, and therefore they can stop some MO's from being conducted (which to me is perfectly ok, as this forum is owned by Clubsnap, and they are the ones who rule this forum?).......I just wish Clubsnap can make up a list of exactly which photographic items can not be MO'ed due to conflicting interest (I understand this would be most of Eastgear products, but are there others as well?). This would avoid problems in the future by making it clear to the members which items arenot to be MO'ed (on this forum).....I mean you can't expect everyone to know Clubsap and Eastgear are connected......

Hong Sien
 

Jedi

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Jul 17, 2002
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#7
Stylus C34 said:
Selfish evil act? That's an understatement. I have seen some threatening the MO starter like,

"I'll make sure your stocks NEVER come into SG."

To be frank, till date, I'm still puzzled about this statement, and would really like to see how can a dunno-who able to stop someone's stock from coming to SG. Or did I undersestimate the power of the dark side, the dunno-what council?

Such behaviour is definitely not acceptable here.

:rolleyes:

Just my 0.2 cents.

You mustn't underestimate the power of the dark side. :sweat:

ISA maybe :bigeyes:
 

kex

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Oct 16, 2002
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#8
if u find the MO price no good,then dun buy lor.

u think those organiser very free with nothing better to do ?

Nothing is free in this world,Even Charity organisation pay salaries to their workers.
 

espn

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Dec 20, 2002
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#9
Stylus C34 said:
Selfish evil act? That's an understatement. I have seen some threatening the MO starter like,

"I'll make sure your stocks NEVER come into SG."

To be frank, till date, I'm still puzzled about this statement, and would really like to see how can a dunno-who able to stop someone's stock from coming to SG. Or did I undersestimate the power of the dark side, the dunno-what council?

Such behaviour is definitely not acceptable here.

:rolleyes:

Just my 0.2 cents.
Why hide behind and mask by quoting without saying who said that? Cat got your tongue?

Yes, I said that but that was something personal between me and mayonaise, it has nothing to do with his MO or better prices than what I can get or not.

If you still don't know, there's no more what council-or-anything, if you choose to harp on the thought of the ex-council and it's doings, then all I can say is that you're the one being shallow.

My MOs have been clean and above board, I never FORCED anybody to take stocks from me or be jealous if somebody can get a better price, by all means go ahead if you can. I withdrew my 67mm filters when somebody can get a better price, I withdrew my SB-800 when mayonaise, MasterDiver, sykestang can get them cheaper at $540 - $600 compared to my $635.

Still I remember, my first MO for EN-EL3, $85 and people were saying it's expensive compared to CP's $95 I just let it go, I sold it in buy/sell instead.

Same goes for my protector MOs. If you think USD$8 after conversion is < $12 by all means go ahead do the MOs for me, you think it's very enjoyable to wait for the products to arrive, organise, PM, collect payment, schedule pick up times? Why don't you handle one MO and see?

I support Nikon fully and my past two MOs for Nikon D70 have been proven, I didn't earn a single cent from it, and Nikon knows it, CP knows it, AP knows it, Lords knows it and TK Foto knows it. I have nothing to hide.

Regarding the 'threats', that was something personal that sparked it off and I have no intention of RULING the market, face it, anybody can get it cheaper from shops than from me I believe.

MOs are a ways to get things not easily available in stock or in good prices, some MOs do earn, what'd you expect? Time and effort is of no cost?

If you want to target with me, I'm really fine, I'm not going to threaten you but seriously do PM me, we can sit down and talk this out, hiding behind and masking out words for people to read in between the lines is not going to be helpful.

People who've met me knows me and my style, if I want to earn I will, if I want to help I will, whoever crosses my path with hurts, I will return him/her THREE TIMES what I suffered. This is my rule in life.

Cheers!
 

Jun 12, 2003
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#10
jeffgoh said:
Good Day All,

Recently I heard of very strange happenings in ClubSNAP in regard to the MO being organised.

General rules of the thumb
1) MO is organised to help fellow CSers to clinch the best deal
2) MO is carried out under individual free will
3) MO is beneficial to all CSers
4) MO is for like-minded people to participate in

I realise that there are people who make it a point to damage or stop MO organised by others in order to protect their own vested interest. What is going on here?

Guys, lets hear your opinion on this matter.

My take is very simple,

1) There should not be any reason why anyone who is able to provide a better deal not to share with others on their own accord and selfishlessly.
2) It is based on own free will. Anyone who thinks it is a good MO and would like to participate or organise, should not be subjected to flame either through the thread or PM.
3) This is a normal willing buyer willling seller's world, a MO will not be successful if there are no willing buyers.
4) As long as the terms and condition of the MO are being spelt out clearly, it is up to the buyers to make the decision not cause of hidden reasons.

On this note, I would like to ask the admin and mods in CS to look into this matter as this is truely a grey area which may potentially upset fellow CSers' will to share good deals.

Yes, I have heard and seen an unfair cancellation of a MO just 'cause there are people with hidden agendas stopping others from organising MO. :bsmilie: To me, this is a selfish evil act which at the end of the day, just put the purpose of MO to shame.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Well said :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 

satan_18349

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May 6, 2004
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#12
Even doing business in buy and sell is not easy with lots of smart alecs cutting into your thread providing details of where-to-get-it-cheaper, i-got-it-at-blah blah blah etc...simply IRRITATING...

Not to say conducting an MO which takes more time and effort which is NOT FREE. Don't expect nobody not to earn anything... ;)
 

Stoned

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May 7, 2004
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#13
Dear ESPN,
I am too quite sorry to hear you have a life policy like that. I hope you can find joy in a policy like that but truthfully, I feel sad when I look at such comments. May you find freedom one day from all the people you have yet to exact vengeance X3 upon.
 

espn

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#14
Adam Goi said:
I am very sorry to hear that ...
Stoned said:
Dear ESPN,
I am too quite sorry to hear you have a life policy like that. I hope you can find joy in a policy like that but truthfully, I feel sad when I look at such comments. May you find freedom one day from all the people you have yet to exact vengeance X3 upon.

I think you folks are off the track to begin with, if nobody steps on me, where would I have the chance to exact my 'vengence'? Think.

Do what you want others to do unto you, I didn't ask for these things to happen. Did I?

Just am pretty puzzled how some people can take my personal remark against somebody else and assume there's a conflict of interest here, there are MANY more such conflicts of interests here in CS, you folks JUST don't see it.

Sometimes, the angels are the devils and often, it's opposite true too.
 

benedium

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Jun 19, 2004
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#15
wah this MO issue become like that...

Espn, don't think this MO issue is attacking you. You have been super helpful to alot of clubsnap members including me... sharing your knowledge, and even taking the trouble to lend us lenses and stuff, and downloading curves for those of us who dont have nikon capture. And helping us with MOs. I really think that you are nicer than you appear to be ;)

The real issue here is that if somebody finds a cheaper deal and wants to do an MO at a lower price thereby benefitting clubsnap members, then nobody should be unhappy and sabotage it. Think everybody can agree with that.

Like I said, I don't know anything about who threatened who, but I'm abit curious why the cheaper SB800 MO didn't get as good a response as the more expensive one.
 

espn

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#16
benedium said:
wah this MO issue become like that...

Espn, don't think this MO issue is attacking you. You have been super helpful to alot of clubsnap members including me... sharing your knowledge, and even taking the trouble to lend us lenses and stuff, and downloading curves for those of us who dont have nikon capture. And helping us with MOs. I really think that you are nicer than you appear to be ;)

The real issue here is that if somebody finds a cheaper deal and wants to do an MO at a lower price thereby benefitting clubsnap members, then nobody should be unhappy and sabotage it. Think everybody can agree with that.

Like I said, I don't know anything about who threatened who, but I'm abit curious why the cheaper SB800 MO didn't get as good a response as the more expensive one.
benedium, I believe the original threadstarter didn't target this at me, my replies are targetted specifically only to Stylus_C34.

And sometimes, people always see the bad sides of things, they don't bother to understand the other side of stuff, anyway, like I said, those who know me, know my style and my person, I don't hold 2 personalities just because I'm behind a PC.

This is exactly how I talk in real life also.

Regarding your question on why $540 doesn't go is because many would feel it's still too expensive to buy a SB-800 at half a K, hehehe.
 

sykestang

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#17
Stylus C34 said:
Selfish evil act? That's an understatement. I have seen some threatening the MO starter like,

"I'll make sure your stocks NEVER come into SG."

To be frank, till date, I'm still puzzled about this statement, and would really like to see how can a dunno-who able to stop someone's stock from coming to SG. Or did I undersestimate the power of the dark side, the dunno-what council?

Such behaviour is definitely not acceptable here.

:rolleyes:

Just my 0.2 cents.
Maybe you should follow up the recent Mayonaise case before posting in here to create more unhappiness among members here.

Here are all his threads:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=104881

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=104745

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=105975

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=104990

If I don't remember wrongly, there are another 2 more threads that was locked by the moderators in the Buy & Sell Forum.

The following is a brief outline of what has happened:
i. Mayonaise posted MO threads in the Buy&Sell forum for his SB800 & SB600
ii. According to CS's rules in the B&S, all MO threads are to be conducted in the Consumer Corner.
iii. The moderators with the rightful duty, moved the thread on his behalf to the Consumer Corner.
iv. He, however not happy with the move, create duplicate threads in the Buy & Sell forum again, thus broke another rule in CS's posting for creating multiple duplicate thread concurrently in both forum. Maybe he is trying to monopolize in CS. However both the duplicate thread was locked by the moderators in the B&S.
v. After sometime, he again composed similar threads in the B&S forum, which was again moved by moderators to the Consumer Corner.
vi. He thus make a din on the thread, which ESPN pointed out that it is only right for the moderators' action. He thus start calling names and made snide remarks at ESPN which it is only reasonable for ESPN to retaliate back.
vii. He later sabotage my thread on the jusBounce card by linking my thread as a confrontation to the moderators on whether my thread is a MO or not. On top of that, he posted snide remarks in my thread, see this ->http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost.php?p=989390&postcount=17. I tried to explain mine thread is not a MO, here is my explaination ->http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost.php?p=989529&postcount=23.
vii. He later still not convince with the whole thing and do another posting in the B&S trying to pick a fight with everyone here, see -> http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=105993
viii. Lastly he tries to gain fellow CS's support by posting a Good Bye thread in this KopiTiam Forum ->http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=106086

The above is a summary of the events happen to Mayonaise.

The following are my personal feel.

I have been doing a lot of MO in CS here by getting cheaper or better deals, so much so that there are ppl here call me the 'MO King'. A rule of thumb is we must always remember, CS does not belongs to us. It is a privilege given to us as a member to post, so it is only a polite for us not to bleach the rules laid down by the admin and moderators. That's is why I always do not argue with moderators who moved/lock my threads from the B&S, which that sometimes does happen.

Me and I believe most ppl here, we do not force anyone to buy from us. It is a free-will thing. In fact I personally feel dutiful to any ppl who MOed from me. That's why I invited fellow photographers to join me in the 'Nikon User Group' gathering if they have problems with photography or their camera gears. Recently, from my previous ML-L1 remote controllers MO, believe it or not, I did actually keeps a small qty in case there are any RMA. And after months, which none have returned to me, I recently actually give them all out FOC to those new D70 owners.

Likewise I personally witness ESPN teaches and help fellow Nikonians to customise curves for their newly purchased D70. In fact fellow members like Scanner who actually teaches and share knowledge on flash photography during the recent D70 newbies outing. These actions are commendable. However recently, there are a mixed feeling with some members thinking that all these actions are questionable to some members thinking that we actually have some monetary gain, then please think again. I seriously doubt these members' intentions, as either jealousy behaviours or do seriously harbouring evil intentions over good deeds shown by others so as to kill the mood of the one who is actually rendering the good deed.

I normally do not post or try to sell items that others have already been doing openly in the forum here. This is a basic respect to fellow members, who is selling that same item, cos we will meet or may meet one of these days in person. This is also to avoid unhappiness. With this mutual respect for each other, I maintain a good relationship with fellow members like ESPN, and also some of csers here. Ever since Mayonaise is doing his MO on the Nikon Flashes, I have stopped mine, and I did not post or disturb in his thread before. Anyone can do a search to see if I ever posted anything on any of his threads. BTW, did I ever mention that I can actually get the local Singapore warranty set of SB600 for $360 including GST as compared to his MO price of $340 before 5%GST. And also to his previous sale of a single unit for $375, http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=104992. On the other hand, he however comes to my thread and post snide remarks and later still have the cheek to ask for peace via PM after what he have done to my thread. Is this the right thing to do? Moreover he still tries to urgue his way out using PM to me that his is not MO just like my Bounce cards. Let me emphaize my stand again, I AM THE SOLE DISTRIBUTOR OF JUSBOUNCE PVC BOUNCE CARDS IN SINGAPORE, I DO NOT NEED TO MASS ORDER, MO, MY OWN PRODUCTS!. It is not the matter of whether you hold ready stock or not, which I believe he misinteprete the rules.

For fellow members who may not know, there is no such official 'Nikon Cxxxxxl'. What we normally meetup with fellow members in Peninsula Hotel Spinelli Cafe is a photographers' chit-chating sessions. I've already made known in this thread: http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=102210. It so happen that most users are using Nikon System. BTW as agreed with the Admin and Moderators of CS, this gathering have been renamed as 'Nikon User Group'.

Lastly from my understanding from ESPN after the whole issue, Mayonaise also PM espn with some absurd questioning, remarks picking a fight with him, maybe espn would like to share it further.
 

sykestang

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#18
espn said:
Regarding your question on why $540 doesn't go is because many would feel it's still too expensive to buy a SB-800 at half a K, hehehe.
My personally feel... think it is the source of the goods maybe questionable. Just to share with some CSers here. I do have a contact with Selangor Photo in KL, which they're a Authorised Nikon Retailer. I have personally check with them on buying the SB800 to Singapore, and was quoted abt $535 for a single piece. For 10pcs and above the price is ard $529each. Personally, MO is MO, even for the cheap price, I still need to cover my transportation, my stay in KL, etc. Thus I serious doubt anyone can bring a Authorised Nikon Goods with recognised warranty for a mere $4 transport fees and sell the price for $539. BTW I did a check and was quoted abt $465 - $480 for a single set in KL from unauthorised retailers, which I did not want to get myself into troubles after selling these 'Unkown Goods Source'. As mentioned earlier, I personally feel dutiful to anyone who MOed from me and I'll be here to stay as long as I am allowed. In all cases, my Handphone is posted openly everytime I conduct a MO and my h/p no have not been changed for the past 10yrs. BTW SykesTang is my english name, not a nick and I do not have Clones Nicks in CS. This same nick is used in all other forums like DPreview, OffStone, PhotoMalaysia, etc. I believe in pure honesty and as transparent as possible. I believe this whom have deal with me before can vouch for me.

That brings to a question for those who have bought from Mayonaise before. I understand he is a Malaysian, and stay in KL... did it come across to you if your newly bought flash happen to spoil with 7 days you get it, what duty on his part to make sure you can get it fixed?

For my MO, all who ordered from me are told to return to me and I'll personally go with them to Nikon Singapore to get it fixed. BTW I do keep a record who ordered from me before. An example is I recently change for a couple of members who purchase from me the SB800's Chinese Manual from Hong Kong with Nikon Singapore to a English one, as they don't understand Chinese, by showing the original warranty cards of the Flash units.

:)
 

sehsuan

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#19
Stylus C345678 has been like that. Hiding all along, with a strong dash of sarcasm, and dry wit.

espn, forget about such people, ya? ;) there's always another dive you can join the UWCS group with... heehee... so when are YOU getting your camera's housing? :devil:
 

Firefox

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#20
And to add to the general rules of the thumb, I think it's okay if the MO organiser makes a token sum to cover transport and time.
 

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