Military Discussion : Invasion of China (07 July 1937)

Can Japan conquer China ,if Japan concentrate all her resources on China campaigns


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King Tiger

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#1
The Invasion
Japan invaded China on 07 July 1937, 70 years ago today, with the aim to conquer China
politically and militarily to secure vast land and raw material reserves.
Although the two countries had fought in small engagements since 1931,
it is only at Battle of Lugou Bridge (Marco Polo Bridge Incident) on 07 July 1937
that mark the official beginning of full scale war between China and Japan.

From 1937 to 1941, China was fighting against Japan alone, with a small airforce,
little military-industrial strength and no mechanized divisions.
Throughout the next few years from 1937 till 1945, the Japanese air force launched air bombing raids on nearly every city in China, leaving millions death and homeless.

Following the Battle of Lugou Bridge was the Battle of Shanghai, after 3 months of heavy fighting, the Japanese force crush the majority of the China's best trained and best equipped divisions and occupied Shanghai, the heart of China's financial and industrial centre.
Next, the Japanese advance and smash Chinese defense line and capture Nanjing, then capital city of China,
and then advance further in the following campaigns to capture southern part of China.
China resist the Japanese forces at all front despite suffering heavy losses in most of the battles.

By the time war ended, total Chinese casualties during the war was above 20 millions (chinese records show 35 millions), including 3.22 million soldiers.
In addition, the war created 95 million refugees.

Total Japanese casualties was estimate at 1.1 million military casualties (Japan defense minstry shows 200,000), killed, wounded and missing.




The discussion is : Can Japan conquer China, if Japan choose to concentrate all her resources on the China campaigns.


P.S. Correct me if any of the above information is wrong.
Purely military discussion only. :sweat:
 

r32

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#3
China would have been to Japan what the USSR proved to be for Germany, basically taking a bigger bite than they could chew.
 

Virgo

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#4
Never. I'm always for the idea that one country will NEVER succeed if they try to conquer any country which does not belong to them. The will of the Chinese is stronger than anything else.

Anyway, China is too huge in land mass for any country to take over. Population is also too big to eliminate. As the saying goes, if each 人民解放军 urinate on a crater, it will become a reservoir! :bsmilie:
 

raincool2005

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#7
heard Japs were actually people from Kingdom of Qin, sent out to find eternal life pills for Emperor Qin.

:think:
 

zac08

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#9
As mentioned... No matter how much troops you send in, you need loads of logistics to back them up... If I were losing badly and have the troops to spare, I will lead them into the vast country and swallow them slowly...
 

Francis247

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#10
This is quite an interesting discussion which if we are to look from all different aspect, the outcome is rather uncertain. However, just to keep my POV short, I will just highlight certain points.

Before the 7th July 1937 incident, China is having Civil War which weaken and tied themselves down as the Chinese central government diverted much attention into fighting these civil wars and followed a policy of first internal pacification before external resistance.

Internal instability in China and External Threat by the Jap will swing the odds to the Japs.

However, with the start of invasion of Japan, the whole of China start to unite which turn number to strength.

However, unlike Japan, China was unprepared for total war and had little military-industrial strength, no mechanized divisions, and few armored forces. With the air-force advantage of the Jap bombing, it simply crippled the Chinese fighting force.

However, the vast land area of China will spread the Japanese resource thin if they chose to completely overrun China.

Just an ending note, by vast number and larger size do have an added advantage but it will not be the only deciding factor in the outcome of a war. There are warfare in the past where small number managed to win one with a larger number.
 

firestone

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#12
In the Xian incident (Dec 12, 1936), General Zhang and another general Yang Hu-cheng kidnapped Chiang Kai-shek and imprisoned the head of the Nationalist government until he agreed to form a united front with the communists against the Japanese invasion.

Chiang at the time took a non-resistent position against the Japanese invasion, he rather put his efforts in fighting his own countrymen than the foreign invaders. Chiang broke the truce shortly after. He used his best forces against the communists while leaving many cities such as Nanking wide open for the Japanese to take over.

Do read abt General Zhang, a real hero.
He spent half a century in house arrest for his role in the Xian incident.
http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Xue-liang

Sometimes, internal enemies like the bustard Chiang is more dangerous than invaders.
 

jsbn

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Jul 24, 2002
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#13
To be very honest, assuming if Japan concentrated their war efforts in China instead of opening up another front in the Pacific by bombing Pearl and ended up fighting on 2 fronts on 3 seperate campaigns (1 against China, 1 against SEA, 1 against US), they might had taken China completely.

Despite the embargos, US probably had very little vested interest in China itself. Assuming if US maintained its truce and diplomacy links with Japan and no Pearl Harbour occurred, a Japan taking over China would ensure that US is in a militarily strategic position to move into Soviet Union if the chance arises to hit against Stalin (and of cos, we'll all be speaking "konnichiwa" instead).

Also, Japan had a nuclear project going on that time and actually had tested an atomic bomb towards the closing stages of the war but they never had the chance to deploy nukes against US.
 

Zplus

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Mar 16, 2002
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#16
Too big a country for Japan to win. Forces will be spread thin and resources would not be able to reach the front lines on time. Much like Germany's mistake in taking on Russia in WW2.

You'd probably get lots of rebels disrupting your supply and end up with a mess. There are probably not enough Jap troops to hold on to so much ground.
 

Sjourn

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#17
In my opinion, thanks to Japan invading, it actually caused the whole of China to reunite to fight against them.
 

Hommie

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#19
The Chinese was very united in the war, initally the Japanese generals promised to the emperor that they will conquer China within 3 months but was incapable of keeping to the promise. Even if they concentrate all the effort to the China invasion, the outcome would be the same. In fact, they were running out of raw material to support their war factory, thus invasion of S.E. Asia. The China Nationalist saw Japanese weakness despite of its incredible training & support.

Japanese was strong but was spread thin by the massive area to cover. That meant their army can only do short stab at a time but not long pursue.

The Chinese easily outnumber the Japanese, while the killed or wounded was replaced by new soldiers from China's Backyard Sichun continously.
 

Hommie

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#20
But the Chinese was poorly trained and even more poorly equiped. Some don't even have a gun, using a Sabre to hack the Japanese....
 

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