Marriage in Singapore

[zcf]

wah piang...

as said, Different folks.. different strokes la..

wah piang, $8k for proposal ring. my proposal ring cost less than $500.
wedding bands total up also less than $500.

bridal shop package, about $3k.
everything in. photos, gown, wedding car. except AD photographer...
top up $130 for additional 2 photos to add in wedding album.

dinner in non orchard rd hotel restaurant which cost less than $700 per table.

honey moon at australia, chan brother tour package. < $5k.

staying in new hdb house. so have to spend about $35k in reno.

mine is similar to yours, seafood restaurant in orchard rather than hotel one (prefer food rather than style, red packet enough to cover), spend a bit more to Italy honey moon trip but less on house renovation.

$8K proposal ring is :sweat: some more 10K trip :thumbsup:

 

[Yappy]

there are "families" that live on less than $2K per month. Y CAN'T U?

U are right. Many live with only $2000. Finanical help only for those $1500 or less.

 

[Yappy]

Good idea~! :thumbsup: still looking so that she can fund my equipements... LOL:bsmilie:

Love is blind! :dunno:

 

[sammy888]

Kudos to Ah Seng for the detailed breakdown.

May I add, those who think they can recoup or even make a profit from the wedding dinner red packets? Please think twice.... one major killer is any tom dick and harry that your parents or your wife's parents invite for the sake of "face".

I had a friend whose original plan of 30 tables ballooned to 60 tables because his dad just couldn't stop inviting guests....

You can end up heavily in debt from the wedding dinner because alot of these tom dick and harry give you a miserable red packet. Reasoning is simple, they are invited to a wedding dinner where tons of good food so giving a 50 dollars to 80 dollars is okay for the amount of food and free alcohol. Worse are those that give you 50 dollars for a family of 4. And they won't feel shame as after all they were invited and they didn't gate crash and they most likely won't ever see you again.

I have two friends' stories that pop to my mind when I was readin stuff in here.

One after a year of marriage ended in divorce. 7 yrs courtship from JC right up to working life. He is still paying for his wedding which was funded by lots of loan for his wife's love and sake and family expectation. When it was game over, the "sake and expectation" all act blur. So did the ex-wife. But the banks didn't.

Another friend of mine and his wife are still marry. The memories of their wedding day is never too far away from them each month. Why? Because they are still paying off their wedding expenses. They too fell for that... "it's a once in a life time thing and want to do it well for everyone's sake". The econmy hit their jobs hard and pay cut follows, property they own devalued, they are cut off from repaying comortably their repayments. And when situations heats up at home, the blame games always creeps in when sensitivity gets the better of both parties. I hope they can pull through.

I have another old friend who live with his "woman" no ROM. wedding bands and no papers. They have been together for 27 yrs. No kid as she has problem and can't have kids. But it never stop them from staying together all these years and beyond and they are not totally well off too.

Another couple I use to work with went against her parents and kept a very basic simple wedding. She earned more then he does. He tried to do right by her to give her a decent wedding out of what he could save up. She choose not to have a fancy wedding and it was a simply buffet thingy and a simple church reception. Parents were not too happy about it and some even have the gall to say this all will just ensure a bad marriage with this "bad start". Well 2 kids later and 14 yrs.. still a very happy family who is coping with life's problems as it comes and relish what fortunate moments that come their way.

Ultimately...marriage is about two things. You and your significant other. Everything else is just noise. There will always be money problems be it you are single or marriage or even....divorce. Managing your expectation and peer pressure as a couple plays a very imporant role so for example tackling money issue at home or any other communication issue with each other will be alot easier if communication is open and honest.

And for those who don't feel the need to work marriage into their lives at this time or never...well more power to you too. There have been just as many single people or divorce people doing great things and contribute to life as married people could too. Don't fall that old BS that married people are more stable and responsible so they can archieve more. It just "looks" that way.

To those who are so focus on the money part of the marriage equation, and you have already a special someone in your life..well I think the money part is just a symtom of deeper issues.(Maybe) Fear of commitment or the overwhelming feeling of growing up and taking that first step to total indepence perhap away from your parent's apron string? It's scary and we try to look for things to rationalise it and yes over rationalise too. But meet the right man or woman sometimes all this rationalising will just fade away to noise. Somehow you will just feel you will make it through.

What I am saying is not for or against marriage. But to say it takes all kind to make this world go round. We all have a part to play in it. Singles or couples...etc. There really is no clear answer cast in stone...for all the good some "flavour of the month" studies will tell you, some book or just because a majority says so. It's good to talk about it, hear other's bias or unbias opinions to get an idea from a cross section of people from difference walks of life and persuasion ....but ultimately you should listen to your own honest inner voice and know what's right for you. Only then should you involve another person to share hopeful the same path with you. But that's me heh.

opps I am rambling again heheh a bit too free at the office today heheh

 

[Garion]

If every couple really do the sums before marriage, then there may not be many marriages in Singapore.

Well better that than more divorces, right?

In Sg, money is always a crucial factor in marriages, like it or not, you can never ever avoid this issue. Especially when kid(s) come into the picture.

 

[chongkm]

Can never understand those women and their 'once-in-a-lifetime' thing. Yeah rite, it's also a once in a lifetime opportunity to screw yourself up... and there's the possibility of it not being a once in a lifetime thing... :S

My wife and I are quite practical so we did away with most of those stuff... but we're still living happily.

 

[entropy_h]

I have two friends' stories that pop to my mind when I was readin stuff in here.

One after a year of marriage ended in divorce. 7 yrs courtship from JC right up to working life. He is still paying for his wedding which was funded by lots of loan for his wife's love and sake and family expectation. When it was game over, the "sake and expectation" all act blur. So did the ex-wife. But the banks didn't.

Another friend of mine and his wife are still marry. The memories of their wedding day is never too far away from them each month. Why? Because they are still paying off their wedding expenses. They too fell for that... "it's a once in a life time thing and want to do it well for everyone's sake". The econmy hit their jobs hard and pay cut follows, property they own devalued, they are cut off from repaying comortably their repayments. And when situations heats up at home, the blame games always creeps in when sensitivity gets the better of both parties. I hope they can pull through.

I have another old friend who live with his "woman" no ROM. wedding bands and no papers. They have been together for 27 yrs. No kid as she has problem and can't have kids. But it never stop them from staying together all these years and beyond and they are not totally well off too.

Another couple I use to work with went against her parents and kept a very basic simple wedding. She earned more then he does. He tried to do right by her to give her a decent wedding out of what he could save up. She choose not to have a fancy wedding and it was a simply buffet thingy and a simple church reception. Parents were not too happy about it and some even have the gall to say this all will just ensure a bad marriage with this "bad start". Well 2 kids later and 14 yrs.. still a very happy family who is coping with life's problems as it comes and relish what fortunate moments that come their way.

Ultimately...marriage is about two things. You and your significant other. Everything else is just noise. There will always be money problems be it you are single or marriage or even....divorce. Managing your expectation and peer pressure as a couple plays a very imporant role so for example tackling money issue at home or any other communication issue with each other will be alot easier if communication is open and honest.

And for those who don't feel the need to work marriage into their lives at this time or never...well more power to you too. There have been just as many single people or divorce people doing great things and contribute to life as married people could too. Don't fall that old BS that married people are more stable and responsible so they can archieve more. It just "looks" that way.

To those who are so focus on the money part of the marriage equation, and you have already a special someone in your life..well I think the money part is just a symtom of deeper issues.(Maybe) Fear of commitment or the overwhelming feeling of growing up and taking that first step to total indepence perhap away from your parent's apron string? It's scary and we try to look for things to rationalise it and yes over rationalise too. But meet the right man or woman sometimes all this rationalising will just fade away to noise. Somehow you will just feel you will make it through.

What I am saying is not for or against marriage. But to say it takes all kind to make this world go round. We all have a part to play in it. Singles or couples...etc. There really is no clear answer cast in stone...for all the good some "flavour of the month" studies will tell you, some book or just because a majority says so. It's good to talk about it, hear other's bias or unbias opinions to get an idea from a cross section of people from difference walks of life and persuasion ....but ultimately you should listen to your own honest inner voice and know what's right for you. Only then should you involve another person to share hopeful the same path with you. But that's me heh.

opps I am rambling again heheh a bit too free at the office today heheh

Hear ye, hear ye! Well said!

 

[aeskywan]

Well said Sammy! Kudos.

Also please don't be pressured by the government's call for people to go get married. I mean although the government does make it difficult for Singles or non married couples etc cannot buy first hand flat till you are 35. The government is not going to take care of you when you cannot support yourself and your family due to a badly planned marriage despite all its calls for you to go get married.

So do it for yourself and no one else.

 

[AhSeng]

mine is similar to yours, seafood restaurant in orchard rather than hotel one (prefer food rather than style, red packet enough to cover), spend a bit more to Italy honey moon trip but less on house renovation.

$8K proposal ring is :sweat: some more 10K trip :thumbsup:

The 8K ring is already on a discounted price la. I've sourced for a stone oversea and ship it back here to have it set into the ring. A similar grade & cutting stone from Lee Hwa will set me back at least 20K. I'm the kind of person that does thorough research before buying stuff. The stone can be return anytime and 75% of its price can be gotten back. Local diamond store won't buy back the stone u bought from them. Furthermore, a small stone really has no value as it's too common. When you want to sell it, cannot get anything back as well.

Mine was held at the M-Hotel. Not 5 stars.. but acceptable. Food is good though. We don't own a car and the savings from owning a car had already paid for the trip itself. Luckily the dinner was booked quite some time ago. I heard that wedding dinner prices had gone up already. I've had a friend which had his dinner(30 tables) at Oriental (5 Stars) for SGD1100 per table. Think he lost at least 30K on it.

A wedding and a marriage are 2 different things. A wedding is held at a place while a marriage is built and maintained by 2 person. You can have a grand wedding but ultimately a marriage is between 2 persons. A successful marriage or not depends on the 2 person. If both are equally commited and works towards a happy marriage, it will happen. One hand can't clap(&#23396;&#25484;&#38590;&#40483;&#65289;. Same for a marriage, it can't be contributions from just one side of the relation.

That is why i asked to set up a joint account for both of us. The nest should be built by both of us. Not solely by me. Work out a contribution plan and start saving. Another advice is to open a joint account where it takes 2 signatures to withdraw the amount. This way, both parties are quite safe with the contributions.

 

[aeskywan]

Can never understand those women and their 'once-in-a-lifetime' thing. Yeah rite, it's also a once in a lifetime opportunity to screw yourself up... and there's the possibility of it not being a once in a lifetime thing... :S

My wife and I are quite practical so we did away with most of those stuff... but we're still living happily.

Women are more romantic.... it's typical for most women to want the romance of a church wedding, a beautiful wedding gown, the whole works.....

Men are practical..... we just want to get it over and done with.....

 

[sORe-EyEz]

nah, some just see 1 big tree & forget got a whole forest behind that big tree lah...

 

[kcuf2]

there are "families" that live on less than $2K per month. Y CAN'T U?

maybe u can give me a breakdown of their expenses for a family (i assume a minimum of father, mother and 1 child and a flat), i want to know which part of me did i spend too excessive in and i could improve.

 

[kcuf2]

To prevent steering off the thread,

Take note that in my calculations, i havent even include expenses for wedding dinner, ceremonies, buying all the sorts of rings.

The thing is, based on the combined income of $4k take home per month, its already a bit hard to maintain the couple, much harder to save up for the wedding.

My thread is geared towards people on the lower income side, not really for those that could easily take home more than $3k+ individually, which is a gross of $8k+ per couple.

The whole idea is if your earnings are not that high, i dun understand how could the couple have the capability to start a family at all.

Basically the love equation in singapore has become:

Money = Love + Marriage

No money = No Love + No Marriage

IF you die die want Marriage, the equation becomes

Marriage = Love + No Money + high loans + divorce eventually

I still hope someone could give me a breakdown for living expenses for a family on $2k take home. I still dunno how to get married without money.

 

[blurrblurr]

kcuf, You are wrong

Money = Love + Marriage
No money = No Love + No Marriage

Your equation works only if the girl is very realistic type. Who see only money, who wants only luxury living. Once no money she runs.

Marriage = love+no money
Wedding = high loans

Marriage is always not equal to divouce eventually.

Wedding needs money but marriage do not need money.



Breakdown for 2k household for 2 person per month - breakdown from a friend.
$300 for transport
$300 for bills
$400 for both parents
$500 for simple home cook meal
$500 left for saving or for rainy days.

$2k in total

Unless you rent a house else you use only your CPF to pay your housing.

Now they had a kid. So the wife had to go out to work part time getting home another 1K+ for the baby milk powder

 

[kcuf2]

year 1 -3 : 2.5, 3k
year 3 - 5: 4k, 4.5k
year 5 - 7: 6.5k
year 8-10: slowly increase to 10k
year 11 - 13: 10-11.5k
starting at about 24 after uni,
16 years down the road = about 40 years old.

40 years old, preferbly about 14k
45 18k
then can stagnant till get really senior promotion.
if not 18-25k


P.S you need about 3 mil to retire comfortably nowadays. go figure.

This calculation is a bit too optimistic, here is why:

In the world, in the society, in every company, the typical structure is as follows:

a overall head
a few department heads
many section seniors
many many small dudes

That is to say the hierarchy is pyramidal. And as u move up from one level to the next, only a minor few will get thru, and as u go further up, again another minor few will get thru.

This means that the typical individual singaporean will hit a cap somewhere (excluding the scholars) and this cap is about $3k to $4k. The average singaporean is stuck down there at these amounts for their life.

Even if u wan to do job hopping to get higher post and salary, u must remember that everyone is job hopping too.

This makes the condition for marriage even more negative.

Of course if one could have the career/salary path charted out 100% nicely for them, they could go ahead and marry at the onset of their career, but for most of the singaporeans, a cap will hit them on their head some day, sometimes even sooner than they think.

 

[bovine]

kcuf, if you think you have no $ to get married/lead the life you want, either think of a way to earn more money or find a way to live within your means.
There are rich people who earn $2k a month and people who earn $10k a month but with no savings n always in deficit. It's how wisely you use n invest your $.

 

[blurrblurr]

I use to be like you keep thinking how to hold a proper wedding when I am not earning high pay. Important thing is sort out what is "need" and what is "want".
Same as ahseng I import my diamond ring from US. which save me almost half the price when buying exactly spec as lee wah destiny. Best thing is when ppl ask for brand she will just tell ppl is imported from US not local stone :lovegrin: A ring is a need but I do not want to pay too ex without reason

The qns of "how to have a lot of money for wedding" numb my thinking very quickly. We just get what you want within our budget. Try not to use any credit card or get loans. Find out the price of the things you want and save it for a month you will get it.

We squeezed every single cent for almost a year and we were able to get what we wanted.
That's before wedding. we wack watever we have save for our wedding and we both banl account start to deduct 2 bucks monthly cos we do not have min amount in the account.

After wedding, things goes the other way round. Bills do increase a little but our credit card bills drop half and our saving doubled within short period. As long as you work, nothing will goes wrong.


Bovine is right there is rich ppl who earn 2k per month with few ten thousands savings while there are the poor one who earn 10k per month queuing for free food.

Seriously stop thinking so much and just get your wedding done. Nothing will goes wrong. Afterall is part of life to grow marry and give birth right?

 

[aeskywan]

I use to be like you keep thinking how to hold a proper wedding when I am not earning high pay. Important thing is sort out what is "need" and what is "want".
Same as ahseng I import my diamond ring from US. which save me almost half the price when buying exactly spec as lee wah destiny. Best thing is when ppl ask for brand she will just tell ppl is imported from US not local stone :lovegrin: A ring is a need but I do not want to pay too ex without reason

The qns of "how to have a lot of money for wedding" numb my thinking very quickly. We just get what you want within our budget. Try not to use any credit card or get loans. Find out the price of the things you want and save it for a month you will get it.

We squeezed every single cent for almost a year and we were able to get what we wanted.
That's before wedding. we wack watever we have save for our wedding and we both banl account start to deduct 2 bucks monthly cos we do not have min amount in the account.

After wedding, things goes the other way round. Bills do increase a little but our credit card bills drop half and our saving doubled within short period. As long as you work, nothing will goes wrong.


Bovine is right there is rich ppl who earn 2k per month with few ten thousands savings while there are the poor one who earn 10k per month queuing for free food.

Seriously stop thinking so much and just get your wedding done. Nothing will goes wrong. Afterall is part of life to grow marry and give birth right?

I beg to differ... I think marriage is to be thought about hard.... Don't one notice how many a lower income family marry young, give birth to tons of kids and the cycle carries on to the next generation. They are forever poor and most likely to remain at the bottom of the social ladder. Ask them why marry and have so many kids when they cannot afford it, same reason. Part of life is to marry and give birth.

I would say be responsible to yourself and your family. Only marry if you can afford to do so and don't marry for the sake of society pressure. End of the day you suffer yourself when you cannot afford to pay your bills. On the contrary, many a thing can go wrong. Your wife loses her job due to having a kid, your wife have to stay home to look after kid cos you both cannot afford a maid due to your low income, you get retrenched and find out your savings are not enough now that you have so many mouths to feed.

Just to name a few of the problems that can happen. I would say marriage is a beautiful thing but please think hard and carefully before jumping in.

 

[Canonised]

I think many young ppl view the concept of marriage like having an expensive holiday. Actually marriage is like taking a journey that will last a lifetime. It is a mutual commitment and actually involved not only the couples, but including both the in-laws.

Generally, any parents would usually want to have a daughter-in-law and looking forward for grandkids and IMO usually they are more than happy to help foot some bills, or in many cases, classify it as loan. Of course there are also ppl who do not have such understanding parents, but in a "healthy" relationship family will usually help each other.

For the 20's or early 30's couples, incomes are usually not so high but with hardwork, good luck, thrifty and good planning, after 5 to 10 years after marriage, new family shouldn't be that difficult to survive.

As for the couples, both parties must be matured to have a realistic living std and expectations. It is incredible to see many Malay couples with small incomes and having many kids, seemingly happy and close, and having a good time camping or enjoying themselves at the beaches every fri, sat and sun.
Isn't this is so much more meaningful and fun than to spend every Sat and Sun in a shopping mall, food court, etc?

The secret to happiness is actually very simple - simple expectation! There is no need for fanciful wedding, fanciful gown, rings, hotel, etc... Just spend what is necessary, and within your means.

Frankly, it is really not that difficult to maintain a simple lifestyle and having a happy family with kids! But of course you must get the right partner first ... :sweat:

 

[dkw]

Basically the love equation in singapore has become:

Money = Love + Marriage

No money = No Love + No Marriage

IF you die die want Marriage, the equation becomes

Marriage = Love + No Money + high loans + divorce eventually

In a word.....nonsense.

If you wish to persist with setting an artificially high threshold for yourself to rationalise why you should or should not get married, that is your right, but please do not extrapolate your calculations (which many folk have already pointed out is not appropriate) to other couples. Meanwhile, many people with lower income than your threshold are getting married every year, and starting families successfully, staying out of financial trouble and generally getting on with life. Quite simply, the reality does not bear out your rationalisations. Take your time and read through this thread again carefully, a lot of good advice about how you should approach this whle issue of marriage (not just wedding), its not all about the financials.