Letter to The Straits Times expressing Displeasure at the Infringement of Copyrights


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centuryegg said:
be a bit big hearted and live and let live, you have gotten an apology from editor and reporter and you still want to whine about ST being big company etc got lawyer etc... please lah.... everything also want to pick and pick... the issue will never end.

pls dun accuse him of whining. that's not very respectful of the efforts and it's hurting to say that.
 

on the lighter note, i like sumiko tan too. ;)

zoossh :kok: mattlock
 

Alright I apolgise, whining might not be a good term to use and I am sorry for that. My only aim is to bring across my opinon that is my own and you guys and girls can choose not to take it.

I shall say it once and for all here. Why I said let and let live is that I noticed that photographers here, seemed to like to whine and complain about everything and anything. About security guards, about places that cannot shoot, about police, about rights, about each other. However when solutions are offered, it is still complain complain complain. And end of the day no photos.

Why not take these obstacles as challenges? Instead of whining about it? Or is Singaporeans really a whining bunch as SM Goh once said?
 

centuryegg said:
Alright I apolgise, whining might not be a good term to use and I am sorry for that. My only aim is to bring across my opinon that is my own and you guys and girls can choose not to take it.

I shall say it once and for all here. Why I said let and let live is that I noticed that photographers here, seemed to like to whine and complain about everything and anything. About security guards, about places that cannot shoot, about police, about rights, about each other. However when solutions are offered, it is still complain complain complain. And end of the day no photos.

Why not take these obstacles as challenges? Instead of whining about it? Or is Singaporeans really a whining bunch as SM Goh once said?


Our terms for the request for an apology is listed in the petition. It is not a matter of ego. Let me make it clear that I am not getting anything out of this and I am more in a position to lose because of the nature of my work. if I were interested in whining alone then this letter would never have existed.

Let's make it clear, photographers complaining about police, security guards, each other, has been beneficial to the community of photographers. In the nature of internet forums, there tends to be quite a high number of emotional outbursts but the sharing of experiences among the photographers has educated a significant number of us on the finer points of our rights under the law.

I hope you understand that an institution like the Straits Times has to set a good example of respecting IP and in case of any error hold itself up to the highest level of accountability. If it was some tom dick or harry frankly I wouldn't even have bothered with the letter.

btw the number of photographers signing the petition made up only a fraction of the signatories.

I like your attitude of taking obstacles as challenge. I take the obstacle of the venerable ST infringing copyrights as a challenge and am trying to make sure that this apology makes the public record otherwise it is easy to deny this in the future.

So to make it clear, the solution to this is easy. We just want an apology in print in the newspaper which the offending article was published in. And if anyone wants to whine about it, do feel free to give the editors below a call to make yourself heard. Each person's voice does make a point, and the number of signatories in the letter did make a point.

Han Fook Kwang
Editor Office: (65) 6319 5421
Home: (65) 6288 2696

Felix Soh
Deputy Editor Office: (65) 6319 5313
Hp: (65) 9683 0663

Ms Sumiko Tan
Life! & Sunday Life! Editor Office: (65) 6319 5345

Kong Soon Wah
Forum Page Editor Office: (65) 6319 5438


Internet Memories are short, newspapers are forever (in the public record). (Hey! sounds like the pitch for the next ST ad campaign)
 

centuryegg said:
Alright I apolgise, whining might not be a good term to use and I am sorry for that. My only aim is to bring across my opinon that is my own and you guys and girls can choose not to take it.

I shall say it once and for all here. Why I said let and let live is that I noticed that photographers here, seemed to like to whine and complain about everything and anything. About security guards, about places that cannot shoot, about police, about rights, about each other. However when solutions are offered, it is still complain complain complain. And end of the day no photos.

Why not take these obstacles as challenges? Instead of whining about it? Or is Singaporeans really a whining bunch as SM Goh once said?

I think the point here is to retract. The example is if I tell the world you're a [offensive description]. Then I apologize to you. But to the rest of the world you are still a [offensive description]. So in some cases, live and let live doesn't apply. And if I have apologize to you, how difficult would it be for me to tell the world that I made a mistake and you are not a [offensive description]? Just my view because I would definitely feel offended if a photo of myself is used out of context and in a derogatory manner.
 

centuryegg said:
Why not take these obstacles as challenges? Instead of whining about it? Or is Singaporeans really a whining bunch as SM Goh once said?

I'd be really keen to see how humans take such "obstacles" as challenges. if the law is the obstacle, are you willing to challenge it? if there are restrictions (clear or unclear), will YOU be the very first person to say "I CHALLENGE THIS" ?

we don't have to be reminded how many times policies were "CHALLENGED" (WHETHER or not justifiable) to know the eventual fate!

I can't believe you actually made that statement.

I'm glad that Sumiko Tan made an in-the-forum apology. However, i think the extent of the effect of what was published on the papers had far reaching consequences. some of those whose pictures were on the papers are already already shying away from any form of "public exposure" again. if this trend is allowed to go ahead, WITHOUT due considerations, i'm afraid sooner or later, we'll have a country whereby, we can effectively be just introverted robotic clones!

I personally feel that if ST runs a note of apology, it'd be in the best interest of everybody and it'll definitely appease most if not all those affected.
 

dawgbyte77 said:
I think the point here is to retract. The example is if I tell the world you're a [offensive description]. Then I apologize to you. But to the rest of the world you are still a [offensive description]. So in some cases, live and let live doesn't apply. And if I have apologize to you, how difficult would it be for me to tell the world that I made a mistake and you are not a [offensive description]? Just my view because I would definitely feel offended if a photo of myself is used out of context and in a derogatory manner.


Isnt this place about free speech? or only free speech reserved for those who write in petitions? Its my personal view that it's kicking a mountain over a mole hill so why should I be apologizing for my opinion? I am apologising for using the term Whine.
 

centuryegg said:
Isnt this place about free speech? or only free speech reserved for those who write in petitions? Its my personal view that it's kicking a mountain over a mole hill so why should I be apologizing for my opinion? I am apologising for using the term Whine.

This is what I mean about being taken out of context. I am refering to the topic between ST and TS and the apology between the 2 using an analogy.
 

centuryegg said:
Isnt this place about free speech? or only free speech reserved for those who write in petitions? Its my personal view that it's kicking a mountain over a mole hill so why should I be apologizing for my opinion? I am apologising for using the term Whine.

I wonder how will you feel if ST posted your works without your permission on the front page and did not make any complimentary remarks about you and your works? Will be ignore it? :think:

I feel that Mattlock is right in bringing out this issue to them. Especially when they treat copyright infringement of their property so much and yet disregard other's IP.

Lastly, this is not about compensation, etc. So there is no need to whine so much about Mattlock's thread. :)

Otherwise, welcome to the community of whining photographers! hahaa
 

I find it admirable that Mattlock has mustered so much courage and persistence in pursuing this matter, and it's really for a good reason and cause.

I'm inclined to believe that most others, probably myself included, would have not taken on The Straits Times. Well, you all know Singapore, and Singaporeans, in general.

I like Sumiko Tan's writings, and I hope it was really her apologising in the forum. It puts her in good light.

plsoong said:
... i'm afraid sooner or later, we'll have a country whereby, we can effectively be just introverted robotic clones!

I like your words "introverted robotic clones" but I think many Singaporeans are already like that. Perhaps Mattlock should lead the way in making us more extroverted individuals.
 

Mattlock

Tread lightly.
Do not take on the behemoth over trivial issues.

Do not be goaded by lawyers into such action.
This sort of thing, once fired out cannot be retrieved.

Approach the management of ST in soft approach.
Let them know they may have infringed.
They may acknowledge.

Once you shoot this letter out, it becomes a FIGHT.
Lawyers are happy.

You may lose.
a LOT.

If countersuit is successful, you can lose few hundred thousand $.
That is excluding lawyers' fees.
 

ricohflex said:
Mattlock

Tread lightly.
Do not take on the behemoth over trivial issues.

Do not be goaded by lawyers into such action.
This sort of thing, once fired out cannot be retrieved.

Approach the management of ST in soft approach.
Let them know they may have infringed.
They may acknowledge.

Once you shoot this letter out, it becomes a FIGHT.
Lawyers are happy.

You may lose.
a LOT.

If countersuit is successful, you can lose few hundred thousand $.
That is excluding lawyers' fees.

hey thanks for the advice. As I said earlier on, this letter is not looking to sue or anything. It's termed in legal language to highlight the seriousness of the matter here, infringement of copyrights. A printed apology in the newspaper is crucial for a matter of public record for future reference.

I am e-mailling a request for an apology in accordance to the criteria listed in the earlier letter.
will keep you guys informed on the response
 

Sometimes, even where you did not have any intention to sue, you may be drawn into a suit commenced by the other side in response to the issuing of your letter of demand.

Best of luck - I also hope to see positive results in an example of the small man against the large company!!

mattlock said:
hey thanks for the advice. As I said earlier on, this letter is not looking to sue or anything. It's termed in legal language to highlight the seriousness of the matter here, infringement of copyrights. A printed apology in the newspaper is crucial for a matter of public record for future reference.

I am e-mailling a request for an apology in accordance to the criteria listed in the earlier letter.
will keep you guys informed on the response
 

I think there are two extreme to things....

One is really making a mountain out of a molehill... (I dont think publishing my photos on national newspapers without my permission is considered making a mountain out of a molehill. It is simply trying to tell someone who made a mountain that IT IS A FRIGGIN MOUTAIN)

The other extreme is..... shying away from everything. The "let it be" attitude... While SM Goh said that we are always whinning... arent we on the other hand trying to create a society that develops "CRITICAL THINKING"?

I am behind you MATTLOCK.... For every one comment that is negative... I can see so many that is positively behind you...
 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: too many people are like this unfortunately :(

ajneo said:
The other extreme is..... shying away from everything. The "let it be" attitude... While SM Goh said that we are always whinning... arent we on the other hand trying to create a society that develops "CRITICAL THINKING"?
 

Regardless of the course of outcome,

I hold Mattlock in high admiration.
It's is not in our everyday life that someone speaks up for his own beliefs and on behalf of Singaporeans.

Looking at mrbrown's plight, freedom of speech in Singapore is all but just an illusion.

M once said to J (a university student) that free speech is everywhere. M has got friends who will teach J to set up blogs and websites.

Fair enough, B's blog was not suspended but column was taken off.

But Mattlock, as long as you have a strong case to stand for, ST will probably not take chances and counter-sue because of the potential "hoo-haa" it will generate.

All the best mate!

M = Mini Mentos
J = Jay-me
B = bur-rown
 

It would be great comic relief over dinner to see a media behemoth toppled.Then again, I am not holding my breath for airborne porkers.

Still, something being done beats apathy, which is like slow-acting acid. It will kill you in the end.
 

it is with regret that I inform everyone that The Straits Times has not replied to the second letter sent to them. In light of this, I will be sending an email out to the Forum page.

So although nothing big came out of this, I am thankful for everyone who has supported the letter,and remind everyone to be aware of their copyrights and be unafraid to pursue the matter so that in the least, the paper will be aware of its readers' feedback.

email to Forum page:
-------------------------

On the 30th July 2006 issue of The Sunday Times, 24 pictures of bloggers taken from their blogs were used in a montage with the title " iwant2befamous.com", without their permission.
In light of this infringement of the Copyright Act, 86 of us signed a petition stating our displeasure, which can be found at http://www.petitiononline.com/STCopyr/petition.html
This letter was sent out to the Forum Editor, The Editor, the Deputy Editor and the Life! Editor, via registered mail on 7th August 2006.
As of today, The Straits Times has yet to provide any printed response to the letter.
We would like to ask if the sentiments of 86 people towards copyright infringement is not worthy of The Straits Times' attention. One would expect more accountability from a leading media publication in Singapore.
We express our disappointment at The Straits Times for its indifferent attitude towards intellectual property and the Copyright Act, and the blatant disregard of the concerns of its readers.

-----------------------------------

references:

1.Originating thread of discussion http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=212334

2.Letter Expressing Displeasure against Infringement of Copyrights by Straits Times http://www.petitiononline.com/STCopyr/petition.html
 

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