LCD monitors with only 18-bit colour


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erwinx

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#1
As mentioned in Tom's Hardware, some budget LCD monitors are only capable of displaying 18-bit colour (262k colours).

"Almost all of the panels sold in the mass market do not operate at 24 bits (16.7 million colors) but at 18 bits (262,144 colors). Yet all of them still claim to display 16 million colors. The minor difference, in this case, is that they don't display 16.7 million, but 16.2 million. In order to achieve this, all of them use a technique called "dithering" that, like the AU, displays alternately the two closest colors. There are now a multiplicity of algorithms that make this possible and more or less effective"

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20040226/index.html

Based on this information, a lot of popular LCD monitors have actually only 18-bit LCD panels that use dithering etc to 'achieve' 24 bit. I like the Samsungs and may eventually get one to replace my CRT (for space reasons, not image quality) so just making sure that the one I get has a true 24-bit panel. Based on the info on the site:


18-bit Panels
Samsung 173P
Samsung 173V
Samsung 172T (I'm surprised, 'T' series supposed to be higher end, maybe because its of an older generation)
Samsung 710N

24-bit Panels
Samsung 173T (successor to the 172T)
Samsung 213T
 

tempest

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#3
I dont think they sell the 173T anymore, unfortunately. the 710N/T (supp to replace the 173T ???) is only 18bit colour?

erwinx said:
As mentioned in Tom's Hardware, some budget LCD monitors are only capable of displaying 18-bit colour (262k colours).

"Almost all of the panels sold in the mass market do not operate at 24 bits (16.7 million colors) but at 18 bits (262,144 colors). Yet all of them still claim to display 16 million colors. The minor difference, in this case, is that they don't display 16.7 million, but 16.2 million. In order to achieve this, all of them use a technique called "dithering" that, like the AU, displays alternately the two closest colors. There are now a multiplicity of algorithms that make this possible and more or less effective"

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20040226/index.html

Based on this information, a lot of popular LCD monitors have actually only 18-bit LCD panels that use dithering etc to 'achieve' 24 bit. I like the Samsungs and may eventually get one to replace my CRT (for space reasons, not image quality) so just making sure that the one I get has a true 24-bit panel. Based on the info on the site:


18-bit Panels
Samsung 173P
Samsung 173V
Samsung 172T (I'm surprised, 'T' series supposed to be higher end, maybe because its of an older generation)
Samsung 710N

24-bit Panels
Samsung 173T (successor to the 172T)
Samsung 213T
 

erwinx

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#4
tempest said:
I dont think they sell the 173T anymore, unfortunately. the 710N/T (supp to replace the 173T ???) is only 18bit colour?
yeah i noticed that. 710N (N is the cheaper series) with 18-bit i can understand, but 710T (T is the more expensive line) with 18-bit panels i wonder whats up. maybe its a typo.


The Philips LCD lineup is even more interesting: (info from philips singapore website plus HWZ prices)

Philips 170B5CB - 24 bit panel - $849
Philips 170S5FS - 24-bit panel - $739

Philips 170C4FS - 18-bit panel - $759
Philips 170X4FS - 18 bit panel - $809

ok too free. will stop now :)

p.s. since i actually haven't compared side-by-side after calibration, i can't say whether theres a big difference, but if prices are similar, why not go for 24-bit panels esp if primary use is photoediting in a calibrated environment.
 

ReSpawN

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#5
So what other brands of LCD belongs to the 24bit range? :dunno:
How about 15" LCD?
 

#6
Even the Samsung 910T is 16.2m colours (18-bit) according to specs. :( It's rather surprising Samsung released the 710T to replace the 173T but has lower specs (600 vs 700:1 contrast ratio, 18-bit vs 24-bit etc). Maybe it's the "downside" of using a 12ms display.

Regards
CK
 

#7
I just realised there is a disturbing trend among 17" and some 19" panels nowadays -- they are almost all 18-bit. This is particularly true for the 16ms and faster ones. Looks like in most cases, the faster refresh rate means a compromise in display bit-depth. The major manufacturer's LCDs all have the same "problem", whether it's Sharp, Sony, Samsung, LG, Benq, etc. Looks like the way to get 24-bit is now from the 19" and above monitors. :(

Regards
CK
 

erwinx

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#9
ckiang said:
I just realised there is a disturbing trend among 17" and some 19" panels nowadays -- they are almost all 18-bit. This is particularly true for the 16ms and faster ones. Looks like in most cases, the faster refresh rate means a compromise in display bit-depth. The major manufacturer's LCDs all have the same "problem", whether it's Sharp, Sony, Samsung, LG, Benq, etc. Looks like the way to get 24-bit is now from the 19" and above monitors. :(

Regards
CK

I've been looking around too and i've found that to be the case too. Perhaps the next generation of LCDs will have low refresh rate and 24-bit colour.

At present, it seems only Eizo will have 24-bit colour at 17" but at the Eizo price, I'd rather get the Sharp 19" with 24-bit colour.

Warning - I've seen some local promotional literature which claim 16.7 million colours which is obviously wrong based on web information. Eg: A shop in Funan selling LG monitors has a 1-piece brochure claiming "16.7 million" colours, but on the Global, US, and UK sites, its stated clearly as "6 bit+FRC" or "16.2 million" colours.
 

caseytan

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#10
Darren said:
How about teaming up one of those 20-inch Apple Cinema Displays with PCs?
Feasible?

http://www.apple.com.sg/displays/specs.html
should have no problems since new models comes with DVI

wide screen 20" LCD, very huge and nice leh... i've seen my friend's Dual G4 with 20" LCD, cool ! :cool: And he's been using the LCD panel with his Pee Cee too.
 

rainman

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#11
Anyway I can't differentiate between 16 bit to 24 bit to 32 bit...To me it all looks the same..

Opps :p
 

#12
erwinx said:
I've been looking around too and i've found that to be the case too. Perhaps the next generation of LCDs will have low refresh rate and 24-bit colour.

At present, it seems only Eizo will have 24-bit colour at 17" but at the Eizo price, I'd rather get the Sharp 19" with 24-bit colour.

Warning - I've seen some local promotional literature which claim 16.7 million colours which is obviously wrong based on web information. Eg: A shop in Funan selling LG monitors has a 1-piece brochure claiming "16.7 million" colours, but on the Global, US, and UK sites, its stated clearly as "6 bit+FRC" or "16.2 million" colours.
The thing now is, even if I want an Eizo, the distributor don't keep stock anymore -- they have to order in for you, and that probably cost a lot. Their latest L568 is a 24-bit 17" panel with a contrast ratio of 1000:1 :eek:

So far the 19" Sharp 19D1 looks very good specs wise, have not scrutinised one well enough as these things are usually displaying some slide show or in the case of those units in Best Denki, Harvey Norman etc, the silly Windows screen saver. :( Not many reviews of this panel though. The one thing I don't like is the display stand, very stiff, very hard to adjust height/tilt.

The other possibly good one is the Sony SDM-X93, 24-bit 19" panel with 500:1 contrast ratio, which should be good enough for most work.

Unfortunately Apple and other 20" LCDs cost too much. 1" more for double the price!

Regards
CK
 

#13
rainman said:
Anyway I can't differentiate between 16 bit to 24 bit to 32 bit...To me it all looks the same..

Opps :p
You should be able to see a diff from 16 to 24/32 bit. 24 to 32 might be a bit harder, but most video drivers these days don't have a "24-bit" option, only a "32-bit" anyway.

Whatever it is, it doesn't feel good to spend $700-800 on a LCD panel to know that it's only 18-bit (262,144 colours dithered to 16.2million). You always get the nagging feeling that you're missing something whether you can tell the difference or not. ;p

Regards
CK
 

2100

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#14
rainman said:
Anyway I can't differentiate between 16 bit to 24 bit to 32 bit...To me it all looks the same..
Woah....there is a BIG difference betweeen 16-bit and 24/32 bit.
 

erwinx

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#15
ckiang said:
The thing now is, even if I want an Eizo, the distributor don't keep stock anymore -- they have to order in for you, and that probably cost a lot. Their latest L568 is a 24-bit 17" panel with a contrast ratio of 1000:1 :eek:

So far the 19" Sharp 19D1 looks very good specs wise, have not scrutinised one well enough as these things are usually displaying some slide show or in the case of those units in Best Denki, Harvey Norman etc, the silly Windows screen saver. :( Not many reviews of this panel though. The one thing I don't like is the display stand, very stiff, very hard to adjust height/tilt.
ck, there is a SHARP showroom in Funan with the 19D1 on display together with all the other sharp monitors (can't remember which floor. On the same side of Funan as the Benq showroom but different floor i think)
 

Java_Guru

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#16
Looking to buy a 17.19 inch LCD for my photo editing and surfing. NOt really into games. This LCD has to replace a Sony G400.

The problem is there is alot of mis-information out there including manfacturer specs and websites.

Can the lao jiao here recommend? Was looking at the 193P or 173P but the prices very steep.
 

#17
Java_Guru said:
Looking to buy a 17.19 inch LCD for my photo editing and surfing. NOt really into games. This LCD has to replace a Sony G400.

The problem is there is alot of mis-information out there including manfacturer specs and websites.

Can the lao jiao here recommend? Was looking at the 193P or 173P but the prices very steep.
For LCDs, you get what you pay for. Don't skimp or you'll end up with inferior displays which you will later complain about.

Regards
CK
 

Java_Guru

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#19
wah...Prices are the steepest. U got a set? I saw the sony's 19"too and wonder if they are any good. 1350 I believe.

Details on the apple LCDs...ouch :


S$ 2,488.00

Estimated Ship: Same day

Free Shipping

20-inch (viewable)
1680 x 1050 optimal resolution
16.7 million colors
DVI Display Connector
2 port USB 2.0 Hub
2 FireWire 400 ports

VESA mount compatible






S$ 3,788.00

Estimated Ship: Same day

Free Shipping

23-inch (viewable)
1920 x 1200 optimal resolution
16.7 million colors
DVI Display Connector
2 port USB 2.0 Hub
2 FireWire 400 ports

VESA mount compatible






S$ 6,288.00

Estimated Ship: Same day

Free Shipping

30-inch (29.7-inch viewable)
2560 x 1600 optimal resolution
16.7 million colors
DVI Display Connector
2 port USB 2.0 Hub
2 FireWire 400 ports

VESA mount compatible

Requires NVIDIA GeForce
6800 Ultra DDL Card
*Pending agency approval.


Wai said:
Get one of those apple display and you wont go wrong :D
 

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