k10d and shooting in indoor concert hall


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jpcc

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(this is a buying decision thread, pls consider/ help on the technical merit perspective,
instead of bbb :> , thanks in advance )

I am thinking getting K10D to document my nephew's indoor violin recital.
As such, no flash, not too near to stage.

Am thinking of ISO800 or ISO1600, handhold only.

I am thinking of matching it with 55-200, or can 43mm or 40/2.8 do it too?

Thanks in advance.

PS: I am an ex Nikon D50 user but has currently no lens baggage and hates using flash.

As such, I am open to different brands offering.
Like K10d for its relatively good price/performance, build quality.
Like to take environment portrait, kids, as such a quick, small less, e.g. 43mm or 40mm (for portability)
sound good to me. 21mm is also ok, but for general purpose, 43 or 40 seems more versatile.
 

fengwei

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#2
If you have the D50, why not just get a 18-200 VR lens? I wish Pentax had a similar lens ....



If you do want to get a Pentax K10D, probably you won't be happy w/ its results at ISO1600. I'm not even happy w/ ISO800 for most cases. But SR works great w/ K10D, so you can get good shots w/ very slow speed (I can get good shots at 1/30s w/ an F300/4.5 lens), so this might be able to make up for the lower ISO setting.

Pentax does have some excellent wide to mid-tele prime lenses, and FA43 is one of the best. The Pentax DA50-200 is a good lens, but probably too slow for indoor concert photos unless you have a tripod ...
 

Vulpix0r

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Oct 2, 2002
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#3
If you have the D50, why not just get a 18-200 VR lens? I wish Pentax had a similar lens ....



If you do want to get a Pentax K10D, probably you won't be happy w/ its results at ISO1600. I'm not even happy w/ ISO800 for most cases. But SR works great w/ K10D, so you can get good shots w/ very slow speed (I can get good shots at 1/30s w/ an F300/4.5 lens), so this might be able to make up for the lower ISO setting.

Pentax does have some excellent wide to mid-tele prime lenses, and FA43 is one of the best. The Pentax DA50-200 is a good lens, but probably too slow for indoor concert photos unless you have a tripod ...
To be honest the Sigma 18-200mm is not a bad lens on the Pentax due to the IS in the body. I tried it out at Alan Photo and it's actually quite a good lens even wide open. Almost 55-200mm quality in sharpness.
 

fengwei

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#4
To be honest the Sigma 18-200mm is not a bad lens on the Pentax due to the IS in the body. I tried it out at Alan Photo and it's actually quite a good lens even wide open. Almost 55-200mm quality in sharpness.
How much Alaon Photo ask for this lens? I might pop in tomorrow ...
 

Vulpix0r

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#7
Okay. Thanks. The price is tempting, but I think the Sigma 17-70 is still a better lens for travel (to me at least).
Same here, decided to stick to the 17-70mm. The 18-200 is nice and all, but lenses still cost money... Must save up for the 50-135!
 

swing123

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#8
To be honest the Sigma 18-200mm is not a bad lens on the Pentax due to the IS in the body. I tried it out at Alan Photo and it's actually quite a good lens even wide open. Almost 55-200mm quality in sharpness.
what is the size of Sigma 18-200 comparing to Pentax 50-200??
 

jpcc

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Mar 29, 2004
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#9
Thanks for the replies.

"If you have the D50, why not just get a 18-200 VR lens?"
I have gave away my D50 for someong more needful.
On hindsight, I find the high ISO performance of D50 quite satisfactory.
 

creampuff

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Jul 11, 2006
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#10
By my reckoning, a fast short/medium tele or a large aperture tele zoom looks like the right lens for a concert setting. Basically the choice is dictated by shooting distance and ambient lighting. Metering and WB is gonna be challenging but not impossible.

Even with SR on, I don't think an all-in-one superzoom is going to cut it because the maximum aperture even for the Nikon 18-200 VR is only f5.6 at the long end. I've used the Nikon and it serves its purpose as an all-in-one travel zoom but it won't be my choice in for a concert.
 

Kin

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#12
A concert performance means shutter has to be fast too. If not performers will still appear blur due to motion. What's a good shutter speed to use? 1/30, 1/60, 1/120 ? Any advice ?
 

Limbang

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#13
Hi Fengwei !
Could u share or elaborate the details of pictures quality shortfall at ISO 800 and ISO 1600 ?
 

fengwei

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#14
Hi Fengwei !
Could u share or elaborate the details of pictures quality shortfall at ISO 800 and ISO 1600 ?
If light condition is good, ISO 800 or even 1600 will be quite okay. But if light condition is very bad, w/ ISO800 or 1600, the contrast is too low, you'd lose alot details. The pictures will come out very bad, probably not useable at all. Better use a tripod at a slower speed w/ lower ISO. A slower speed should be okay for concert photos I guess, just try to capture the still moment.

I've never shot a concert before, but I did shoot some fashions and stage performances. Those would need abit faster shuttle speed.

Good luck.
 

Vulpix0r

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#15
I've shot in a concert before and I can tell you that you need a really fast shutter speed to freeze movement. A tripod won't really be of use unless everyone is going to stand around without moving an inch. A bright lens plus high ISO is essential for shooting concerts.

This is the reason why 70-200mm F2.8s are very popular lenses, because it can handle concerts very well.
 

airconvent

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Apr 12, 2005
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#16
don't flame me guys but I thought his intentions are better served with a Panasonic Lumix FZ series. With at least x12 optical zoom PLUS x4 digital zoom, and coupled with the best image stabilisation amongst all the point and shoot camera. its a natural.
I know this because I went to my kid's concert with a x3 optical zoom camera and it was horrible. You need at least x12 zoom and good stabilisation.
In addition, the P&S also allow the option to record video clips of key moments where a picture cannot show.
Image quality will be average but the K100D/K10D can be used to supplement when specific good moments need to be captured at better image quality. I would recommend the DSLR for when taking group photos before and after the recital.
 

direwuff

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Mar 27, 2005
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depending on the lighting, stabilization may or may not be of use. however i think a bright lens on a cheap 6mp dslr and tripod mounted will be more useful than panasonic lumix. mainly because the light is likely to be bad and compacts have poor high iso. of cos, it is much better than a digicam with 3x zoom tho..
 

jpcc

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Mar 29, 2004
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#18
Thanks for the healthy exchange.

I do have a tripod but find it too bulky to bring along to the concert.
Yes, i have considered getting a monopod, but not sure if it is too clumsy
and slow (I am not an official photog so need to make sure i do not obstruct
other audience).

I originally think the most appropriate digicam may be Sony H9.
But too bad the cam is just released and will not be available till, say June?
Am not too keen on Panasonsic as I had some old prior experience that
Pana's CCD chip is weaker in high ISO than other brands.
Canon is one of the best, but am not really keen on their offering, as yet.
(since i was formerly from the Nikon camp, eh... juz kidding... grin...)

Anyway, back to Pentax k10d and relevant lens.
I am also not too keen on the 55-200, but for the bundled price, it
seems like a reasonable (prudent) way to go.

But given a choice, I would like 43 or 40mm as a starter.

Welcome more input on the cam/lens combo.

PS: I do have a Fuji F10 that may do with ISO800, but I think it
may be stretching its capabilities a bit on such a demanding
lighting condition.
 

wobbly

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Apr 16, 2006
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#19
wild shot but how about canon?
the canons are known for being particularly good in low light with high iso - very clean images, and coupled with a fast lens (focal length dependant on the environment, how far away you are and how much you can move around) - should help give good shots a bit easier ...
i do comparison shots with a colleagues 30D and its always very impressive.
i normally have to up the iso a bit and run some noise cleaning software on my images afterwards. he doesnt.
(i shoot a d2x/d2h/pentax ds btw so i'm not exactly a canon-ite)
 

dnaxe

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Oct 5, 2006
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#20
don't flame me guys but I thought his intentions are better served with a Panasonic Lumix FZ series. With at least x12 optical zoom PLUS x4 digital zoom, and coupled with the best image stabilisation amongst all the point and shoot camera. its a natural.
I know this because I went to my kid's concert with a x3 optical zoom camera and it was horrible. You need at least x12 zoom and good stabilisation.
Hm. You're underestimating the value of high ISO, and the fact that the current lumix cams (including the FZ8/FZ50) are very noisy at higher than ISO 100.

Stabilization provides 3-4 stops, at best. moving from ISO 100 to 800 is 3 stops. so with the k10D you'll get 3 stops + however many stops the K10D's stabilization can offer.

In addition, the P&S also allow the option to record video clips of key moments where a picture cannot show.
true.

Image quality will be average ...
no. it'll be awful in comparison - unless the indoor concert hall is VERY well lit.
 

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