Is this a white balancing or metering issue?


SkyStrike

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#1
Hi CSers,

I've taken the following shot using my 500D, 18-55 in ION. Time of day: ~8pm

White Balancing - AWB
Metering - Evaluative
EV - 0

This was before alteration


This was after PS. And is closer to what I've actually saw.


In the original image, the tree looks pale as compared to the actual scene. So, the question is as topic, Is this a white balancing or metering issue?

Not sure if the above given information is enough to derive the answer...
 

ExplorerZ

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#2
neither to me... on my non-calibrated screen, i believe the 2nd picture have stronger contrast and probably some saturation.

in the first place, do you know what is the difference white balance and metering?
 

cks2k2

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#4
If you're shooting in raw, note that Canon raw is quite muted.
 

SkyStrike

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#5
Hi ExplorerZ,

To the best of my knowledge (or from what i understand) of white balance and metering is....
White Balancing - compensation of colors to the actual environment (as camera see colors differently)
Metering - Not too sure on this one, but did some reading up on Google and know that Evaluative Metering will take the whole picture into consideration before "balancing" out the whole picture. (come to think of it....if the EV is 0, it may not have mattered on this matter..will it?)

For the 2nd picture, did some PP in PS to achieve that color effect.



Hi sinned79,

The settings, Aperture Priority
ISO - 100
Aperture - F4
Shutter Speed - 1/10

Regards.
 

aspenx

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#6
Levels and curves.

Look at the histograms for the two images and try to compare to understand what PS has done for you.

If you want something more similar to the 2nd pic in-camera, simply set your camera to Vivid or something.
 

SkyStrike

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#7
Hi cks2k2,

It was shot in JPEG...Haven't tried shooting in Raws yet. I think I recall reading something about the colors of Canon being muted recently. And the advice in that post was changing the Picture Style to "Landscape" or do some white balancing stuffs...
 

SkyStrike

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#8
Levels and curves.

Look at the histograms for the two images and try to compare to understand what PS has done for you.

If you want something more similar to the 2nd pic in-camera, simply set your camera to Vivid or something.
Hi aspenx,

Did a comparison between the 2 pics, after the alteration of the pictures, the histogram is somehow pushed to the sides....

Before


After


But I dun really understand much abt the histogram. (other than the left side is for the dark colors and the right side is for the lighter bits)

Erm, Vivid mode? sry, what is this mode?
 

May 13, 2008
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#9
i dont think its wb or metering issue maybe camera processing? i might be wrong too.. i have seen 2 different brands of camera pics on the spot capturing at the same subject.

Brand A: looks the same as it is using auto white balance mode.

Brand B: the tree turns blue using auto white balance mode.

:dunno:
 

ExplorerZ

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#10
Hi ExplorerZ,

To the best of my knowledge (or from what i understand) of white balance and metering is....
White Balancing - compensation of colors to the actual environment (as camera see colors differently)
Metering - Not too sure on this one, but did some reading up on Google and know that Evaluative Metering will take the whole picture into consideration before "balancing" out the whole picture. (come to think of it....if the EV is 0, it may not have mattered on this matter..will it?)

For the 2nd picture, did some PP in PS to achieve that color effect.

Regards.
yes, white balance has got to do with color, while metering has got to do with exposure aka brightness of the whole picture.
Evaluative metering is a type of metering method like what you mention, whereas EV ( exposure value compensation) is the amount of compensation set by the USER that the camera will offset from the original metered value by the camera

by looking at the picture urself, u should be able to deduce the differences
change in color? or simply more saturation
change in picture overrall brightness? or the darker gets darker, and the brighter gets brighter (contrast)

i believe the most major change would be saturation
 

SkyStrike

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#11
i dont think its wb or metering issue maybe camera processing? i might be wrong too.. i have seen 2 different brands of camera pics on the spot capturing at the same subject.

Brand A: looks the same as it is using auto white balance mode.

Brand B: the tree turns blue using auto white balance mode.

:dunno:
Hi Kelvin,

So, it may be due to the post processing of the camera (since it was taken in jpeg instead of raw)? (seen some comparison between Brand "C" and Brand "N", somehow "N" give better hue/saturation)


OTOH, I think that the image is overall balanced out...making the tree blend into the picture instead of standing out. Not sure if the Evaluative metering is the cause of it.
 

aspenx

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#12
For simplicity, take a look at just the grey curves on the histograms which is something like the "general brightness" regardless of colour.

The vertical axis is proportionate to the number of pixels and as you have mentioned, the horizontal axis is the brightness.

The tapering off on the left "shoulder" of the first histogram shows that the number of pixels with "zero brightness level" is minimal. Whereas there are alot more of "zero brightness" pixels in the second image. What this means is that you have lost information in the shadows region.

This is the same case for your highlights (right shoulder).

Actually, I'm not sure how you have done your post-processing with PS. Auto Contrast? Why not take the time to play around with levels and curves to appreciate what goes on behind the scenes.

And no. The "Evaluative Metering" doesn't cause anything to blend in with anything... What you wanted is for the tree to "pop".

The first shot is VERY GOOD considering the situation. Put some more effort into the post-processing and you might be a few steps closer to getting the image you want. The second image shouldn't be your starting point (especially if you're shooting JPEG!) since so much information is lost already.

HTH
 

cks2k2

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Feb 12, 2009
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#13
Hi Kelvin,

So, it may be due to the post processing of the camera (since it was taken in jpeg instead of raw)? (seen some comparison between Brand "C" and Brand "N", somehow "N" give better hue/saturation)


OTOH, I think that the image is overall balanced out...making the tree blend into the picture instead of standing out. Not sure if the Evaluative metering is the cause of it.
It's not a metering problem, just that Canon's colors are typically more muted if shot in raw or standard jpeg settings.
Nikon and Oly have punchier colors by default.
 

SkyStrike

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#14
yes, white balance has got to do with color, while metering has got to do with exposure aka brightness of the whole picture.
Evaluative metering is a type of metering method like what you mention, whereas EV ( exposure value compensation) is the amount of compensation set by the USER that the camera will offset from the original metered value by the camera

by looking at the picture urself, u should be able to deduce the differences
change in color? or simply more saturation
change in picture overrall brightness? or the darker gets darker, and the brighter gets brighter (contrast)

i believe the most major change would be saturation
Seems like for saturation, I would have to play around with the Picture Styles...Thanks for the advice.


For simplicity, take a look at just the grey curves on the histograms which is something like the "general brightness" regardless of colour.

The vertical axis is proportionate to the number of pixels and as you have mentioned, the horizontal axis is the brightness.

The tapering off on the left "shoulder" of the first histogram shows that the number of pixels with "zero brightness level" is minimal. Whereas there are alot more of "zero brightness" pixels in the second image. What this means is that you have lost information in the shadows region.

This is the same case for your highlights (right shoulder).

Actually, I'm not sure how you have done your post-processing with PS. Auto Contrast? Why not take the time to play around with levels and curves to appreciate what goes on behind the scenes.

And no. The "Evaluative Metering" doesn't cause anything to blend in with anything... What you wanted is for the tree to "pop".

The first shot is VERY GOOD considering the situation. Put some more effort into the post-processing and you might be a few steps closer to getting the image you want. The second image shouldn't be your starting point (especially if you're shooting JPEG!) since so much information is lost already.

HTH
Seems like anything that falls over the "cliff" of both ends will result in loss of information. I was using abit of the curves to get the 2nd pic, Prob still not enough....

If I want the tree to "pop", is there any recommendation of techniques/settings or I will have to play ard with the Saturation which ExplorerZ mentioned?

It's not a metering problem, just that Canon's colors are typically more muted if shot in raw or standard jpeg settings.
Nikon and Oly have punchier colors by default.
Hi cks2k2,

I think the next time, I will shot both Jpeg and Raw.....If the jpeg looks acceptable, I'll leave it...if it don't I will PP the raw....

Regards.
 

sinned79

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#15
last time when i dun know about using curves (S curves to be exact)... all my raw converted jpg files are pretty dull in colors... but nowadays i always apply this S curve to make the colors more vibrant. :)
 

aspenx

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#16
I think the next time, I will shot both Jpeg and Raw.....If the jpeg looks acceptable, I'll leave it...if it don't I will PP the raw....

Regards.
That's a good idea. It seems like you already know what you're doing. Shoot more, and play around more in PS to improve. Saturation does not make images "pop" though. Contrast should be what you're looking for. Also, you might want to work with layers and selective processing. Especially since you have a wide spectrum of brightness in the same frame. For such cases, you will want to capture as much information as possible initially so that you have more leeway both ways in PP.
 

SkyStrike

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#17
Thanks everyone for the replies. Seems that it will be hard to get everything right the moment you capture it (as in "straight out of the camera") and some post processing is required to make the photo more vivid. (@aspenx: Will look into Selective Processing, never tried it before...so far, have only been playing with Exposure/Offsets and curves)

Will keep on shooting more...Still need to explore more combinations with the camera to get better effects the first time.

Once again, Thanks CSers
 

May 13, 2008
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#18
Hi Kelvin,

So, it may be due to the post processing of the camera (since it was taken in jpeg instead of raw)? (seen some comparison between Brand "C" and Brand "N", somehow "N" give better hue/saturation)


OTOH, I think that the image is overall balanced out...making the tree blend into the picture instead of standing out. Not sure if the Evaluative metering is the cause of it.
hmm hue/saturation doesnt matter much as it can easily corrected during editing. camera can set the settings you prefer to have when "straight out of camera" like change some settings in vivid mode or create a new one..

one best thing for you to learn is that stand or shoot at the same spot, try shooting manual mode using different aperture and shutter speed =) sometimes aperture is not "settings" the one you want the pics to turnout so have to explore manual mode. :)
 

Last edited:

SkyStrike

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#19
Hi Kelvin,

I'll keep that in mind during my next shooting event. (Will try shooting in Raw n Jpegs).

Thanks.
 

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